Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[Shanabanana]

IIRC, the shoe was found in the creek. When I try to imagine what happened as the BG approached the girls, my first impression would be that they would run away screaming. If he was a stranger to them and they were frightened, it’s human instinct to survive danger with the “fight or flight” response. So unless he quickly bounded them together or Libby tried to fight him off, he was taking a big chance trying to chase after two young girls running for their lives and not be seen doing it.
My gut still tells me this meeting was planned. Snapchat allows communications to disappear within a few minutes with no record left behind. Our BG could have been in touch with one or both of the girls and arranged to meet there. He was prepared, but they weren’t. IMO

I just have to add that freeze is also a normal state When fearing for your life. Also; He might have had a gun, and you don’t run if you think someone is pointing a gun at you. Trust me! I have been there.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I just have to add that freeze is also a normal state When fearing for your life. Also; He might have had a gun, and you don’t run if you think someone is pointing a gun at you. Trust me! I have been there.

According to Gray Hughes as Per AW - A gun was used to intimidate the girls.
no gunshot wounds were present, however.

I don't have a time stamp - but a lot was said during the last 45 to 50 minutes.

AMOO JMO MOO

EBM for error

 

[MollyDDD]

I just have to add, that “freeze” is also a normal state when fearing for your life. Also; He might have had a gun, and you don’t run if you think someone is pointing a gun at you. Trust me! I have been there.

That’s true and especially with young girls like Abbie and Libby. How frightened they must have been, and that made it easier for the killer to control them.

 

[Gracie55]

https://www.delphilibrarydigital.com/uploads/1/0/3/4/103477448/1999_what_riley_saw_in_deer_creek.pdf

I’m not sure who exactly this points at since the original poet is gone but all this is awfully hush hush, which may mean it’s important to the crime or may mean locals don’t want a bunch of tourists spelunking. Maybe a barn connects to the hone of the Oracle slave hideaway?.

 

[sapphire blue]

I’m not sure who exactly this points at since the original poet is gone but all this is awfully hush hush, which may mean it’s important to the crime or may mean locals don’t want a bunch of tourists spelunking. Maybe a barn connects to the hone of the Oracle slave hideaway?.

what’s the connection between an article from 1999 and the girls? Im lost

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I was thinking there was a deer cam discovered recently but was unable to find anything to confirm that.

 

[AC4RD]

I sure wish LE would reach out to you. Honestly it boggles the mind why they wouldn't!

I absolutely agree with you that we--all of us--would be very grateful for any DNA progress on Bridge Guy's identity. *BUT* ... and JMOO, MHO, MOOOooo--BUT I rather suspect that LE has had the best DNA people it could, working on the L&A DNA. Does it seem likely that the FBI, renowned for its labwork, would just sit on it? Somewhere, I feel certain, very skilled and educated people have been pipetting and electrophoresing their hearts out on this case--we just don't (*MOO!*) know about it and they don't want us to know what, if anything, LE has found out.

Also--another JMHO guess--I suspect the Othram people would be silent on the subject even if LE did call on them. So I'm guessing that any other DNA labs would decline to comment about their involvement. Does the FBI have its own DNA lab, or do they outsource that, does anybody know?

 

[AC4RD]

what’s the connection between an article from 1999 and the girls? Im lost

It may be that people are wishing James Whitcomb Riley were alive today, to be arrested as BG. English Lit majors, mostly, who would like to see his work marginalized and forgotten because it's so freakin' nauseating. English Literature experts refer to this as "The Edgar A. Guest Syndrome."

To be ON topic, though, I think it was Watcher8 who asked about the supposed holes in BG's jeans, below the knee. I've looked at the video and MOO is that the dark places look more like shadows than holes. Is there widespread agreement that those are holes in his pants legs?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I absolutely agree with you that we--all of us--would be very grateful for any DNA progress on Bridge Guy's identity. *BUT* ... and JMOO, MHO, MOOOooo--BUT I rather suspect that LE has had the best DNA people it could, working on the L&A DNA. Does it seem likely that the FBI, renowned for its labwork, would just sit on it? Somewhere, I feel certain, very skilled and educated people have been pipetting and electrophoresing their hearts out on this case--we just don't (*MOO!*) know about it and they don't want us to know what, if anything, LE has found out.

Also--another JMHO guess--I suspect the Othram people would be silent on the subject even if LE did call on them. So I'm guessing that any other DNA labs would decline to comment about their involvement. Does the FBI have its own DNA lab, or do they outsource that, does anybody know?

Just my thoughts, and I’ve thought this for a long time, DNA is not the answer to solving this case. It may help verify someone arrested or bolster the case against them but it is not going to put LE at someone’s door with an arrest warrant.
I think LE has mostly touch DNA and they have multiple samples of unknown DNA from the crime scene. One of those samples may be the killer or it could all be from people at the grocery store or pizza restaurant etc. I don’t believe LE is going to run genealogy DNA on a whole bunch of unknown DNA without knowing for sure it’s the killer.
LE needs to make an arrest by other investigative means, then verify with the DNA they have. And that’s a problem obviously.
I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

LE needs to release all or more evidence to the public. They have already screwed up by not giving us much to go on so what's the harm in releasing more.

 

[Lori Cooper]

I sure wish LE would reach out to you. Honestly it boggles the mind why they wouldn't!

LE wouldn't have to pay anything, because I know that there would be plenty of us that would donate to have this done.

 

[IceIce9]

It may be that people are wishing James Whitcomb Riley were alive today, to be arrested as BG. English Lit majors, mostly, who would like to see his work marginalized and forgotten because it's so freakin' nauseating. English Literature experts refer to this as "The Edgar A. Guest Syndrome."

To be ON topic, though, I think it was Watcher8 who asked about the supposed holes in BG's jeans, below the knee. I've looked at the video and MOO is that the dark places look more like shadows than holes. Is there widespread agreement that those are holes in his pants legs?

Sorry to be so dense but I am totally lost.

I know that James Whitcomb Riley is considered to be the Poet Laureate of Indiana, and many places such as buildings, parks, streets, etc. throughout Indiana are named for him. All Indiana school kids learn about him.

But what does he have to do with being BG? Riley died in 1916.

 

[Marzipan]

what’s the connection between an article from 1999 and the girls? Im lost

I don’t know either but I’m glad I read it. Now I can see art and beauty in my thoughts about the place. There’s a “Libbie” in the story. Maybe someone thought that was interesting? Regardless, if you have 10 minutes, read it for the pleasure and history.

 

[watcher9]

It may be that people are wishing James Whitcomb Riley were alive today, to be arrested as BG. English Lit majors, mostly, who would like to see his work marginalized and forgotten because it's so freakin' nauseating. English Literature experts refer to this as "The Edgar A. Guest Syndrome."

To be ON topic, though, I think it was Watcher8 who asked about the supposed holes in BG's jeans, below the knee. I've looked at the video and MOO is that the dark places look more like shadows than holes. Is there widespread agreement that those are holes in his pants legs?

It wasn't me! I've always felt like his jeans had no holes and were either new or freshly cleaned and ironed - not like he had been wearing them while camping or hiding out earlier.

 

[Georgia8]

1. The geocaching hobby.

Sorry to be so dense but I am totally lost.

I know that James Whitcomb Riley is considered to be the Poet Laureate of Indiana, and many places such as buildings, parks, streets, etc. throughout Indiana are named for him. All Indiana school kids learn about him.

But what does he have to do with being BG? Riley died in 1916.

Thanks for posting that article it is excellent.


I'm creating inevitable confusion with this of course but I need to be vague. Yes of course lol Riley is not BG.

The key section in the article would be the references to an argument or idea that Riley references deeper themes in his dialect and somewhat simple poems, the relevant lines would be the ones discussing his blending of nature descriptions with ideas of Heaven and Eternity say in this poem about Deer Creek. The link to the case is to someone who shared the hobby of geocaching with the girls, who knew the area like the back of his hand being interested in local archaeology, who supposedly loved the Creek as well as Riley's poem about it, and who MAY have been working in the cemetery the day the girl's went missing. Riley's muse at least one of them first name was Libbie. The strange line about the girls not being now not the way he left them would be a direct insult to the killer's twisted motive in the crime if the motive was psychological and somewhat religious and certainly Carter opened that door. It is irrelevant if he walked it back later it was only intended after all for the killer not for us. We don't know for sure, but it seems possible they weren't sexually assaulted and again, there would be the possibility of a stranger and different motive. In this case the reference to the Shack might be off hand and the reference to the OTHER book might be the important one aimed at the killer.

Now let me go with this briefly, though I realize that the solution is probably going to be less complicated. But the 2nd presser bothers me as it does many. Let me just argue for argument's sake that is scripted (say in tandem with FBI profilers I realize it may not be.) But there is a reasonable chance it is. If so could the OTHER book mentioned in the presser be Riley? Now of course Riley's idea of heaven and eternity is Christian I am just broaching that LE was directing that comment to the killer and of course he did say he was and that the OTHER book was in the first place Riley, and then the Bible just indirectly. If the presser was scripted in this regard then surely they would have cameras trained on the audience looking for reactions. Of course I have no idea if that person attended.

Now if this wild theory ( and it is only so wild this person may have been investigated as I understand it) is relevant I think there would be a MUCH more personal romantic disappointment suffered by this person and thus the February 14th date would be relevant and these other elements just attached in the perpetrators mind They would be hiding in plain site working, normal etc. Would know the girls via geocaching either really knowing them or lurking: these could as easily be the geocaching murders rather than just the snapchat murders.

Now in this case the killer or one of them would be just secretly psychotic/evil but after all that is what LE is suggesting otherwise how could he hide in plain site.

I think this theory would mean the murders were VERY planned out and could mean the murderer used some element of disguise.

 

[watcher9]

what’s the connection between an article from 1999 and the girls? Im lost

I thought the article was very interesting to read some of the history on Deer Creek from back in the days. It was not just a creek in the woods but a famous place with a poem written about it by an honored and beloved poet.

There was no connection to the girls unless BG liked history and/or poetry.

 

[IceIce9]

I thought the article was very interesting to read some of the history on Deer Creek from back in the days. It was not just a creek in the woods but a famous place with a poem written about it by an honored and beloved poet.

There was no connection to the girls unless BG liked history and/or poetry.

So the poet James Whitcomb Riley spent time in Delphi as a boy, that much is fact. A local artist, Harry Milroy, lived on County Rd 300, just east of Delphi. Some of Riley’s poems were written during the time he spent at Milroy’s home.

There are a couple of historic markers near Delphi recognizing Riley, one is on the Hoosier Heartland Highway.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

1. The geocaching hobby.


Thanks for posting that article it is excellent.


I'm creating inevitable confusion with this of course but I need to be vague. Yes of course lol Riley is not BG.

The key section in the article would be the references to an argument or idea that Riley references deeper themes in his dialect and somewhat simple poems, the relevant lines would be the ones discussing his blending of nature descriptions with ideas of Heaven and Eternity say in this poem about Deer Creek. The link to the case is to someone who shared the hobby of geocaching with the girls, who knew the area like the back of his hand being interested in local archaeology, who supposedly loved the Creek as well as Riley's poem about it, and who MAY have been working in the cemetery the day the girl's went missing. Riley's muse at least one of them first name was Libbie. The strange line about the girls not being now not the way he left them would be a direct insult to the killer's twisted motive in the crime if the motive was psychological and somewhat religious and certainly Carter opened that door. It is irrelevant if he walked it back later it was only intended after all for the killer not for us. We don't know for sure, but it seems possible they weren't sexually assaulted and again, there would be the possibility of a stranger and different motive. In this case the reference to the Shack might be off hand and the reference to the OTHER book might be the important one aimed at the killer.

Now let me go with this briefly, though I realize that the solution is probably going to be less complicated. But the 2nd presser bothers me as it does many. Let me just argue for argument's sake that is scripted (say in tandem with FBI profilers I realize it may not be.) But there is a reasonable chance it is. If so could the OTHER book mentioned in the presser be Riley? Now of course Riley's idea of heaven and eternity is Christian I am just broaching that LE was directing that comment to the killer and of course he did say he was and that the OTHER book was in the first place Riley, and then the Bible just indirectly. If the presser was scripted in this regard then surely they would have cameras trained on the audience looking for reactions. Of course I have no idea if that person attended.

Now if this wild theory ( and it is only so wild this person may have been investigated as I understand it) is relevant I think there would be a MUCH more personal romantic disappointment suffered by this person and thus the February 14th date would be relevant and these other elements just attached in the perpetrators mind They would be hiding in plain site working, normal etc. Would know the girls via geocaching either really knowing them or lurking: these could as easily be the geocaching murders rather than just the snapchat murders.

Now in this case the killer or one of them would be just secretly psychotic/evil but after all that is what LE is suggesting otherwise how could he hide in plain site.

I think this theory would mean the murders were VERY planned out and could mean the murderer used some element of disguise.

Fairly early on there was talk concerning geocaching. The Mods deemed that a subject that we could not discuss. I don’t think that has changed. Just letting you know.

 

[Georgia8]

Fairly early on there was talk concerning geocaching. The Mods deemed that a subject that we could not discuss. I don’t think that has changed. Just letting you know.

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[Georgia8]

Fairly early on there was talk concerning geocaching. The Mods deemed that a subject that we could not discuss. I don’t think that has changed. Just letting you know.

Thanks for letting me know.

I thought the article was very interesting to read some of the history on Deer Creek from back in the days. It was not just a creek in the woods but a famous place with a poem written about it by an honored and beloved poet.

There was no connection to the girls unless BG liked history and/or poetry.

Exactly.