Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #138

[FromGermany1]

So the poet James Whitcomb Riley spent time in Delphi as a boy, that much is fact. A local artist, Harry Milroy, lived on County Rd 300, just east of Delphi. Some of Riley’s poems were written during the time he spent at Milroy’s home.

There are a couple of historic markers near Delphi recognizing Riley, one is on the Hoosier Heartland Highway.

And let us bet (not): BG is an "immigrated" Hoosier. IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

There was no connection to the girls unless BG liked history and/or poetry.

This.

ETA: If BG has it with numbers/calendar, he as a nerd (??) might have it with history or poetry as well, even in an intense way. He might play history games/view history movies, and he might be the author of poems. He could be oriented and talented in many ways, even if not assumed by us.

 

[evilwise]

1. The geocaching hobby.


Thanks for posting that article it is excellent.


I'm creating inevitable confusion with this of course but I need to be vague. Yes of course lol Riley is not BG.

The key section in the article would be the references to an argument or idea that Riley references deeper themes in his dialect and somewhat simple poems, the relevant lines would be the ones discussing his blending of nature descriptions with ideas of Heaven and Eternity say in this poem about Deer Creek. The link to the case is to someone who shared the hobby of geocaching with the girls, who knew the area like the back of his hand being interested in local archaeology, who supposedly loved the Creek as well as Riley's poem about it, and who MAY have been working in the cemetery the day the girl's went missing. Riley's muse at least one of them first name was Libbie. The strange line about the girls not being now not the way he left them would be a direct insult to the killer's twisted motive in the crime if the motive was psychological and somewhat religious and certainly Carter opened that door. It is irrelevant if he walked it back later it was only intended after all for the killer not for us. We don't know for sure, but it seems possible they weren't sexually assaulted and again, there would be the possibility of a stranger and different motive. In this case the reference to the Shack might be off hand and the reference to the OTHER book might be the important one aimed at the killer.

Now let me go with this briefly, though I realize that the solution is probably going to be less complicated. But the 2nd presser bothers me as it does many. Let me just argue for argument's sake that is scripted (say in tandem with FBI profilers I realize it may not be.) But there is a reasonable chance it is. If so could the OTHER book mentioned in the presser be Riley? Now of course Riley's idea of heaven and eternity is Christian I am just broaching that LE was directing that comment to the killer and of course he did say he was and that the OTHER book was in the first place Riley, and then the Bible just indirectly. If the presser was scripted in this regard then surely they would have cameras trained on the audience looking for reactions. Of course I have no idea if that person attended.

Now if this wild theory ( and it is only so wild this person may have been investigated as I understand it) is relevant I think there would be a MUCH more personal romantic disappointment suffered by this person and thus the February 14th date would be relevant and these other elements just attached in the perpetrators mind They would be hiding in plain site working, normal etc. Would know the girls via geocaching either really knowing them or lurking: these could as easily be the geocaching murders rather than just the snapchat murders.

Now in this case the killer or one of them would be just secretly psychotic/evil but after all that is what LE is suggesting otherwise how could he hide in plain site.

I think this theory would mean the murders were VERY planned out and could mean the murderer used some element of disguise.

Dude, what?

Even though it frustrates me I can really understand why in some cases police release disinformation.

 

[I wonder]

The strange line about the girls not being now not the way he left them would be a direct insult to the killer's twisted motive in the crime if the motive was psychological and somewhat religious and certainly Carter opened that door.

I think this theory would mean the murders were VERY planned out and could mean the murderer used some element of disguise.

I don’t know why, but I always felt the bodies were left in a humiliating manner, in terms of pose or similar.

I can certainly imagine some planning, particularly in terms of the scene, the items left etc, but struggle with the notion of a specific planned meeting. If Libby and Abby believed they were meeting someone, presumably a boy, I think their behaviour would have shown some indication in terms of excitement, extra grooming etc. Even if not noticeable at the time, I’m fairly sure it would have been in hindsight.

Admittedly, the police could have asked the families not to mention this, but I know when I was their ages, boys were very exciting and neither my friends nor I would have met up with a boy without trying very hard with our appearance, whether we liked them or not.

JMO MOO

 

[AC4RD]

It wasn't me! I've always felt like his jeans had no holes and were either new or freshly cleaned and ironed - not like he had been wearing them while camping or hiding out earlier.

I see I got your last name wrong--9, not 8, sorry. But I agree--they look more like shadows to me (JMO) and i suspect that someone wandering around the trails with big gaping holes in jeans is more likely to be remembered than someone with non-torn pants, especially with everything else he was wearing. So I don't think BG would have added to the risk by wearing such noticeable jeans. Moo.

 

[BNA]

I don’t know why, but I always felt the bodies were left in a humiliating manner, in terms of pose or similar.

I can certainly imagine some planning, particularly in terms of the scene, the items left etc, but struggle with the notion of a specific planned meeting. If Libby and Abby believed they were meeting someone, presumably a boy, I think their behaviour would have shown some indication in terms of excitement, extra grooming etc. Even if not noticeable at the time, I’m fairly sure it would have been in hindsight.

Admittedly, the police could have asked the families not to mention this, but I know when I was their ages, boys were very exciting and neither my friends nor I would have met up with a boy without trying very hard with our appearance, whether we liked them or not.

JMO MOO

Very early on, based on the pic of Abby, I wondered if there was a plan to meet a boy out there.

The scenario that I imagine now, though, does not allow that to be the case.

Nuff said, and MOO.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I keep coming back to there wasn't any school that day. Have they investigated teachers or coaches (hence the word "guys"). Hiding in plain sight.

 

[IceIce9]

I keep coming back to there wasn't any school that day. Have they investigated teachers or coaches (hence the word "guys"). Hiding in plain sight.

When Indiana schools are out for scheduled unused snow days, teachers generally report to school as usual.

 

[Georgia8]

Very early on, based on the pic of Abby, I wondered if there was a plan to meet a boy out there.

The scenario that I imagine now, though, does not allow that to be the case.

Nuff said, and MOO.

1. That's interesting can you make clear what you mean by the pic of Abby? ( I want to be sure I know what you mean but perhaps she is a bit more 'put together' than Libby? ) I am male and I find the insight of women on this part of the topic very very useful.

2. That's interesting about teachers having to work on 'snow' days - it might be easier to take off that day though - so that would be very interesting to investigate. No doubt all of that has been done though.

3. Since we have so little information we are all conjecturing a bit at times. So as many hae thought what is really strange is not so much the bridge location which after all, is a clever capture point, but the eventual crime scene site. My hunch is that it is of some psychological and historical importance to the perpetrator. Say an early make out point in their lives or a romantic spot. Symbolic in some way. He wants to get them THERE. IMO and as I say, conjecture.

4. It is useful to separate out the two girls. Libby seems to have the more dominant personality (?) and I notice we tend to focus a bit more on her. But if the earlier poster is right and if I am understanding them, that Abby is dressed in a way more likely to meet someone then it would be important to separate them out and try, say, just focusing on Abby. Or of course Libby.

 

[MollyDDD]

I don’t know why, but I always felt the bodies were left in a humiliating manner, in terms of pose or similar.

I can certainly imagine some planning, particularly in terms of the scene, the items left etc, but struggle with the notion of a specific planned meeting. If Libby and Abby believed they were meeting someone, presumably a boy, I think their behaviour would have shown some indication in terms of excitement, extra grooming etc. Even if not noticeable at the time, I’m fairly sure it would have been in hindsight.

Admittedly, the police could have asked the families not to mention this, but I know when I was their ages, boys were very exciting and neither my friends nor I would have met up with a boy without trying very hard with our appearance, whether we liked them or not.

JMO MOO

I agree. When you look simply at the facts, two young girls their age who were interested in boys, and on social media and had a day off from school, wouldn’t want to meet up with the guy she, or they have been Snap chatting with.
And BG, being a sick purveyor of young, innocent girls would have planned with them to “meet”. Obviously, he had other plans then just meeting. I know I cannot reveal what I’ve read on other unauthorized sites, but I’m sure others here have. He was careful not to leave identifiable evidence but he certainly made left his mark. IMO

 

[MollyDDD]

I agree. When you look simply at the facts, two young girls their age who were interested in boys, and on social media and had a day off from school, wouldn’t want to meet up with the guy she, or they have been Snap chatting with.
And BG, being a sick purveyor of young, innocent girls would have planned with them to “meet”. Obviously, he had other plans then just meeting. I know I cannot reveal what I’ve read on other unauthorized sites, but I’m sure others here have. He was careful not to leave identifiable evidence but he certainly made left his mark. IMO

Correction: “would”.

 

[MollyDDD]

I keep coming back to there wasn't any school that day. Have they investigated teachers or coaches (hence the word "guys"). Hiding in plain sight.

Yes, was there a janitor, lunchroom aide, teacher, assistant, who would have known that school was out early? Did they ever chat with either girl? I have to believe that LE has already looked into those possibilities though

 

[gregjrichards]

I know this is behind a pay wall but maybe some folks can read it. I was able to luckily.

The community needs more…. 5 years and no answers | Carroll County Comet

It is from today, and I think it is momentous. For the first time a local media outlet is calling out the local and state LE for sticking with their ridiculous strategy of silence!
They sound offended almost that LE, after 5 years, still chooses to not share a thing with the people who are most affected by not just the murders but the Flora fire. The article calls for LE to take the time to sort out the true essentials and share the rest to get some help from the community and facilitate the solving of these crimes. They sound disgusted. Bravo!
Now we wait.

To be honest I’m surprised that it has taken this long to happen I thought it would have happened already. It also surprises me that the girl’s families continue to be supportive of how the investigation is being handled given it is approaching the five year anniversary and nobody has been charged. I imagine a lot of families would have lost patience and become extremely frustrated that nobody has been arrested yet and making it publicly known in interviews by now. It is good that has not happened because when it does I think it can create a distraction from finding the perpetrator.

I do not blaming law enforcement for the fact an arrest has not been made and I am not being critical of them in any way. I am sure there is nothing they want more than to finally be able to say: “we got him”. This is clearly a very complex and difficult case. I can’t imagine the amount of stress and pressure they must feel. We do not know all the information that law enforcement does and we do not know what is happening with the investigation. They would not be leasing that new office space for the investigation if they weren’t going to be using or needing it.

I have always had a great deal of admiration for Abigail and Liberty’s families for how they have been able to keep going after suffering a harrowing unimaginable tragedy in their lives. It is incredible that they have been able to keep going each day, appeal on tv for information and do interviews to find the monster who did this and hand out leaflets at events, open a ball park and do the fundraising for it to honour the girls memories.

In 2019 it was announced that Liberty’s Grandma was battling cancer, I hope she has finished her treatment for it and it has been successful. I am sure the girls would be extremely proud of their families. The girls families and all the law enforcement working on the investigation continue to be in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[infinit]

I keep coming back to there wasn't any school that day. Have they investigated teachers or coaches (hence the word "guys"). Hiding in plain sight.

I'd be surprised if it was someone at their school for 2 reasons:

1. Abby and Libby didn't seem to recognise them
2. I'm sure Police have asked members of staff at the school if they have any idea who it is in the video, I know it's not the greatest video but it's good enough surely for "That looks a bit like X"

I do agree that it would be a big conincidence that he is there, on a weekday when school would otherwise be in, kitted and attacking victims of that age.

That being said, I can think of many ways someone would be aware of it without working in the education system, anyone with children themselves, someone who has a colleague who isn't going to be in that day because they're taking care of their children, or has a family member or friend with children who mentioned it in a conversation could all make someone aware of it.

 

[I wonder]

I don’t think BG lived or worked in Delphi at the time of the murders and I don’t think he does now. If there is a link to him and Delphi I think it’s tenuous and historical.

Delphi is a small place. Everyone will have been looking at everyone differently. There’s not many secrets in small rural areas. Add this to the fact that BG had/has to continue to behave ‘normally’, when in Delphi it no doubt feels in many ways that the murder was yesterday and the pain and repercussions remain very raw.

He isn’t there.

MOO JMO

 

[Charlot123]

I wanted to throw in one more idea. The guy’s words…were we absolutely told that they were taped by Libby after the BG came up to them? Or is it someone’s reconstruction?

I am reading detective stories from the rising sun country. In one of them, instructions (on how to get to the place) were sent on tapes . Because now I question everything from the Delphi narrative, especially, the timing of events, I am wondering if it was a message sent to one of the girls. How to get to the meeting place, for example?

A message can be sent in any voice. I have been long wondering if the BG’s voice is indeed the killer’s one.

 

[Jax49]

I'd be surprised if it was someone at their school for 2 reasons:

1. Abby and Libby didn't seem to recognise them
2. I'm sure Police have asked members of staff at the school if they have any idea who it is in the video, I know it's not the greatest video but it's good enough surely for "That looks a bit like X"

I do agree that it would be a big conincidence that he is there, on a weekday when school would otherwise be in, kitted and attacking victims of that age.

That being said, I can think of many ways someone would be aware of it without working in the education system, anyone with children themselves, someone who has a colleague who isn't going to be in that day because they're taking care of their children, or has a family member or friend with children who mentioned it in a conversation could all make someone aware of it.

IIRC, there was a billboard located outside the middle school which was used to update the community on their schedule. We were told it announced there would be no school on Friday or Monday. moo

 

[I wonder]

I wanted to throw in one more idea. The guy’s words…were we absolutely told that they were taped by Libby after the BG came up to them? Or is it someone’s reconstruction?

I am reading detective stories from the rising sun country. In one of them, instructions (on how to get to the place) were sent on tapes . Because now I question everything from the Delphi narrative, especially, the timing of events, I am wondering if it was a message sent to one of the girls. How to get to the meeting place, for example?

A message can be sent in any voice. I have been long wondering if the BG’s voice is indeed the killer’s one.

Sorry? You think the killer and BG are different people and the “Guys, down the hill” recording was, what, an answerphone message?

With all the respect in the world, I think it’s as unlikely as it’s possible to be that your detective stories are the key to solving this case. If I had to choose a fictional detective to be on this case, I’d personally choose Columbo, though Inspector Morse is my personal favourite fictional detective.

 

[JnRyan]

I don’t think BG lived or worked in Delphi at the time of the murders and I don’t think he does now. If there is a link to him and Delphi I think it’s tenuous and historical.

Delphi is a small place. Everyone will have been looking at everyone differently. There’s not many secrets in small rural areas. Add this to the fact that BG had/has to continue to behave ‘normally’, when in Delphi it no doubt feels in many ways that the murder was yesterday and the pain and repercussions remain very raw.

He isn’t there.

MOO JMO

This has been my most likely theory after the first 6 months to one year after. I do believe he has some familiarity with that specific area but it is in his past. I tend to believe it is most likely he lived there or nearby, probably before high school. Or he had a relative - e.g., grandparent(s), aunt, uncle - that he would visit there in the area and that person(s) are no longer there.

Of course, those trails and the surrounding area are not a vast forest. Someone experienced in being in the field from hunting, especially deer, orienteering, from the Army or Marines or even paintball games in larger, more vast wooded areas could likely have become familiar enough with the trails in two or three trips. And nowadays with overhead photos on Google Maps it is probably even easier. Of course, that theory comes with the question: "Why this area to scope out?"

 

[minazoe]

Happy Thanksgiving Sleuthers! JBC is sitting in jail..he's gonna get dinner..in December he will be sentenced ..hopefully after that we will be able to hear more information about the Delphi case and JBC's possible connection to it.

for a long time I thought the girls were waiting for someone there at the end of the bridge...but that is likely not the case..they were probably waiting for the weird guy to clear the bridge because that is the protocol for crossing the bridge.

although I would still not be surprised at anything...my suspect is SM savvy and is capable of something like this...pedophiles often use lures...like JBC used his dogs to lure his victim...he could have used something as a lure..maybe they thought he was a teenager etc. and didn't recognize the man on the bridge..but there is conversation of the girls on tape and they were not discussing meeting anyone..so...it's not likely they were meeting anyone..

but that doesn't mean they didn't inadvertently tell someone prior to going there..

everything is possibility but I think it's more likely they were spotted, stalked, kidnapped and murdered...by someone in the park that day...I do think it is possible that he got his eyes on the girls sometime earlier..Abby lived only a short distance away..

we really don't know what the circumstances were in terms of there being a car involved, a lair prepared in advance, cause of death or true relation of the perp to the victims..like if there was a snap chat connection..

my suspect wrote about a trestle ...and how ever since that "trestle" he had a crush on a little redhead..

my suspect is the type of person that is lying in wait at all times. mOO