Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #64

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Oh right - I assumed that the shoes weren’t there when LE arrived, but who knows! (I was also theorising that they may be what LE think could have been thrown from a car?) MOO

Everything the FM needlessly emphasises or avoid is something to look at, like the shoes, IMO.

For example, I have wondered if her making a point of William being scared up the tree was to throw police off a high fall scenario, thinking he was scared of heights, because the inclusion of that part in her statement was so unnecessary. But the evidence doesn't lie. William was very high casually sitting on his fathers shoulders in the McDonalds CCTV and he got a black eye from 'climbing' up on her, allegedly.
There are other images of William swinging from something relatively high, also, so he wasn't scared of heights.

Same goes with the singlet under the spiderman costume needless detail. I wonder why that was included unless it was just her trying to create an impression of being a great mother who is concerned about her child being cold, which, when you consider that he didn't have socks or slippers on sitting outside, makes no sense either.

I also note that there are no cups of tea in any of the deck shots where she claims to have been sitting with her mother drinking tea.
 
Not many hessian bags around now which do degrade most of the garden bags are not biodegradable, they are nylon fibres in a mesh pattern with some kind of plastic fabric overlay. They will be still identifiable in hundreds of years, IMO.
Unfortunately, unless there is a large amount of biological material, rather than a stain, sun, rain and soil produce conditions where DNA degrades quickly. The recovered hessian seemed to be a fragment, so whatever conditions compromised the integrity of the bag, if that was its origin, are likely to have accelerated DNA degradation.
 
I just thought of something (not sure if it’s been mentioned previously) in relation to the FF’s statement that on the morning he disappeared William had allegedly deliberately crashed into the garden on his bike: William Tyrrell’s doomed life

Is it possible that this story could have been concocted to explain damage to the bike / garden, which may have been incurred during a different incident? (Eg the accident / coverup hypothesis?)
Apologies if this has been asked and answered previously
 
Indeed, but foster parents are checked out pretty carefully before being deemed eligible.

However, the fostering experience can be very challenging (have described that earlier in relation to foster parents that I know).

I gather that DOCS/FACS keeps tabs on how things are going -- at least in the initial stages.

To add to this, we know that the Foster placement was supervised by Salvation Army. In my experience of Fostering arrangements, the FC’s themselves are ‘employed’ by the third sector organisation and have their own case worker whilst the child(ren) remain under the care of FACS and have an allocated worker themselves. So that would be two social workers at least involved in a placement. JMO.

Has anyone wondered about the process of fostering these children in the first place?
What are the odds that a perfect pigeon pair of foster kids without abuse or neglect become available so quickly after the foster carers were approved, and are ordered never to be returned to their parents? This is so unusual, especially where the children weren't abused or neglected.
IMO.

IMO, neglect often goes hand in hand with substance misuse and domestic abuse. Neglect can be both physical and emotional and tends to be characterised an act of omission.
 
I'm just catching up .......

A timely article.....

"There are no Australian media guidelines specifically about reporting missing persons cases. They are needed."

Rolling media coverage of missing persons cases can add to the trauma for all families left behind (theconversation.com)

I read that yesterday, very much "food for thought"

We should also be aware of the level of abuse to be found in many bio families as well. Believe me, many foster children are there for valid reasons.

Yes they are, I take my hat of to people who want to care for kids when they come to them with sooooooo much trauma.

Was the car owned by the FFC and MFC ever searched?

Yep it was

Do you know (for a fact) the girl child was close to the house?

Yep , she was on the deck still drawing etc

The description was a 'PLUMP woman with a blonde bun piled on top of her head.....I don't think there is any way to make that fit FM's description.

And does it make sense that FM had a living 3 yr old in her car ? Do we really think she kidnapped a living breathing boy and drove to the bush and murdered him that morning?

I agree & RC saw these cars @ 10:45 ( from memory, I don't have my notes with me atm ) , he remembers looking at the clock on the way to his porch.

Do you know for a fact that she wasn't?

She was on the deck

Who is HS? I have never heard of that before. Do you have a link please?

Ps's wife
Mallett gets so much wrong, I wouldn't put much stock in what she has to say.
What has she gotten wrong? Link?
William Tyrrell's foster grandmother's police statement to inquest revealed | Daily Mail Online

FGM’s statement implies that FFC called the MFC and police before the MFC arrived home….which contradicts the timeline given by the foster parents.
I’m not sure if the FGM was very aware of what was going on that morning at all.
Lots of her statements in this article don’t match what FFC has said.

Also can anyone clarify whether FFC and FGM were sitting on the deck drinking tea when William jumped down off the deck and went around the corner or was FFC inside making the tea?

Tea had been made, they we're on the deck
My granddaughter got black eye at 4, playing hide and seek, hiding behind a door, that her cousin pushed open, and she got hit in the eye by the door knob.

Yep seen plenty of black eyes that were not NAI's

The Kendall Cemetery is downhill from 48 Benaroon Drive and is accessed via Ellendale Crescent.

View attachment 324135

Street view shows uphill direction from cnr Ellendale Crescent to 48 Benaroon - which is top righthand side of road. Therefore from 48 Benaroon it would be downhill to Ellendale Crescent.

At cemetery end of Ellendale there is a path that leads to the cemetery


View attachment 324136

I am not aware of any evidence that suggests William walked to the cemetery.

No there is not

There is no public access from Ellendale cres to the cemetery according to evidence from JO who lives to the Rt at the top of Ellendae Cre, he stated that he went & searched the cemetery & was asked what route he took & he said it joins his neighbour's property who lives opposite him & that it goes diagonally across my place, had no track , had to go thru bush. He searched thru to Albert St
Interesting. It is every citizen's legal right not to talk to police but I don't think they can avoid Coronial questioning. I could be wrong though.


Yes they can, under certain certificates given by the coroner
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SPECULATION: IF Person of Interest IS indeed the person noted throughout this thread and in the current Media.

Very doubtful that William would be there.
Perpetrator would be too worried that riders and dogs of riders and
human presence constantly would be too inhabited a place to bury a
victim. More likely if the person in question suddenly made up this
story , it was to lead searchers in the OPPOSITE direction to where
he is actually buried IF they are indeed the guilty party.

I would search in the OPPOSITE direction as well; the cemetery where
the POI's father is buried should definitely be considered. Even his grave
is a distinct possibility. Not sure if the FGM (wife of deceased) is also buried
there as well. One would need to consider the possibility that if there IS
evidence that the FMDI - then the grave site is a possible crime scene with
remains of crime, whether a body or otherwise could have been buried at the
time in FGFs grave...OR...at the time of FGM's decease. This MAY have been
in order to give WT a belated Christian burial?

Are you really suggesting & saying that the FFC buried William with his Opa, in his grave?? How would that be possible & no one raised any suspicions :eek:
So someone thinks that he may have drowned in a covered empty pool?

Or hidden?
Everything the FM needlessly emphasises or avoid is something to look at, like the shoes, IMO.

For example, I have wondered if her making a point of William being scared up the tree was to throw police off a high fall scenario, thinking he was scared of heights, because the inclusion of that part in her statement was so unnecessary. But the evidence doesn't lie. William was very high casually sitting on his fathers shoulders in the McDonalds CCTV and he got a black eye from 'climbing' up on her, allegedly.
There are other images of William swinging from something relatively high, also, so he wasn't scared of heights.

Same goes with the singlet under the spiderman costume needless detail. I wonder why that was included unless it was just her trying to create an impression of being a great mother who is concerned about her child being cold, which, when you consider that he didn't have socks or slippers on sitting outside, makes no sense either.

I also note that there are no cups of tea in any of the deck shots where she claims to have been sitting with her mother drinking tea.

The photos were taken before the cups of tea
Oh right - I assumed that the shoes weren’t there when LE arrived, but who knows! (I was also theorising that they may be what LE think could have been thrown from a car?) MOO

Maybe because William had them on?
 
Yes.

Additionally, that includes the twin cars on Ellendale Crescent. There is nothing and no one to independently verify the FFC's assertion, for which she said she spotted twice throughout the morning, and had never, ever seen before in all of her years visiting Kendall. In neither instance did she comment to her mother--who has lived there all these years--about the peculiarity (i.e. "Hey mum, do you recognise these cars?" "hey mum, have you ever seen cars parked on Ellendale Crescent before?" etc). And no neighbours came forward as well about this vehicular abnormality. And no neighbours came forward to identify the people missing from these cars (FFC said the windows were down and no one was in them).

Yet on Lia Harris' podcast Where's William Tyrrell? ("Not Her Mantle" @ 23:12), Xanthe Mallett oddly weighs FFC's memory far greater than Ronald Chapman's, even though forensic psychology academic Helen Paterson testified at the inquest that neither could be trusted anymore than the other (she couldn't rule if FFC's was true or false, and that Chapman's may or may not have been impacted by information released after the investigation started).

Mallett on Chapman: "Somebody can tell an absolutely true ... account of something they've witnessed ... not based in fact."

"I'm not really sure it progressed us any further in understanding what happened to William ... no conclusion ... can be reached from that."

"He could well have been absolutely telling his truth, but whether he saw it or not, we can just not determine." (24:18)

Mallett on FFC: "We have no reason to think she didn't see them ... We don't know whether they were connected or not.

"Just because nobody else saw them, that doesn't undermine the FFC's testimony as to what she witnessed."

"I already took it as a given she saw the cars ... I'm not sure why we have a memory expert commenting .. when I already accepted she was telling her truth." (26:11)

One could argue that the law of probabilities would suggest that--in the case that both memories were accurate--there would be a greater chance of an Ellendale Crescent neighbour supporting FFC's memory of two stationary cars parked unattended in an abnormal way for about 2 1/2 - 3 hours verses someone else noticing a moving vehicle with a kid standing up in Spider-Man suit racing down Batar Creek Road.

We in fact know that an Ellendale Crescent neighbour returned from grocery shopping before the supposed kidnapping would had to have taken place (part III Little Boy Lost, @6:09). The neighbour attested that based on the time FFC approached her, the supposed kidnapping would had to have happened whilst she was unloading groceries from her vehicle. And, if the supposed kidnapping had happened before her return, she still failed to see these "abnormally" parked cars on her way to grocery shopping. The twin cars would have been parked from about 7:30 AM when FFC said hi to the kookaburras to the time of WT's disappearance (10:05 - 10:35 AM-ish).

FFC insists that these twin cars would know something about WT's disappearance.

Why isn't that this neighbour did not notice these twin cars parked in a way never seen before by FFC on Ellendale Crescent? That is a legitimate question for an investigator to ask and explore. It's shocking to me that 60 Minutes validated the FFC's memory on national television with that artist rendition (and not FFC's memory of the green/grey car driving by the man with the old-timey beer belly, which apparently was substantiated by a second witness, WT's sister [the car, at least]).
The cars were not parked on Ellendale Cre.
 
I just thought of something (not sure if it’s been mentioned previously) in relation to the FF’s statement that on the morning he disappeared William had allegedly deliberately crashed into the garden on his bike: William Tyrrell’s doomed life

Is it possible that this story could have been concocted to explain damage to the bike / garden, which may have been incurred during a different incident? (Eg the accident / coverup hypothesis?)
Apologies if this has been asked and answered previously
Could be the case.
Once you 'presume' the involvement of the FFC, and one focusses on what she has said in explaining her series of events, the 'clues' are there to be recognized!
It would seem that in the area of her traumatized mind, aspects of her memories of/in what actually occurred seem to filter through to become part of her story-telling portrayal for the listener. JMO
 
Have you got a link showing she was definitely on the deck drawing when William went missing?

Missing William Tyrrell by Caroline Overington chapter 4, page 83, 84 & 86

Lindsay led police toward the back deck, where she had been doing her drawing, and where her foster mum and her foster nanna had been sitting having their tea.
 
The day William Tyrrell vanished - NZ Herald
The Photo of the FGM house where the carport and driveway is - there is a door coming off the carport area into the house. It would be more convenient to use this carport area as your main place to park your car rather than the bottom garage which is enclosed under the house. 2 reasons - its makes more sense with shopping to go directly from car inside with the least amount of stairs, and the bottom garage the driveway is more gravel than smooth concrete, so when its raining this might be boggy to drive on. The point being that FGM's car most likely was in the carport and MFC parked to the side of this. MOO If that is more likely - are you putting something in the boot of a car in the carport or in the lower Garage.

If I was eldery and infirm, which I'm not (yet), the carport is where I'd park - makes sense to park there.

<modsnip>

Just sayin'.
 
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Missing William Tyrrell by Caroline Overington chapter 4, page 83, 84 & 86

Lindsay led police toward the back deck, where she had been doing her drawing, and where her foster mum and her foster nanna had been sitting having their tea.

Thanks but that's the testimony of the POI and her child. That's not evidence.

There is no evidence that LT was playing on the back deck when William disappeared.
 
I wonder if she had a leaf blower or rake nearby, and also a gardener. (Way too much work for an old lady who’d recently had a knee operation). The gardener would know if the leaves had been bagged up or not, leaving them like that seems unusual unless he / she was due back shortly to remove them IMO.

If police are thinking William was placed in a garden bag there were likely plenty under the house there too .. if they find one during their searches they might even be able to match the batches to outlets and years (say Bunnings 2014) then cross reference FGM’s purchases to see if they were likely at the house.


Murder of Reyna Marroquín - Wikipedia.

They were able to do precisely with the above although this murder involved a 55 gallon drum - incredibly it was still traceable 36 years after its manufacture.
 
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