FL - Ryan Rogers, 14, fatally stabbed, Palm Beach Gardens, 16 Nov 2021 *Arrest*

[sk716]

Unfortunately, I don’t think this turned out to be a viable alternative. There has to be a way to keep someone like this off of the street while getting the help they need. JMO

I don't disagree. If one is a danger to others (Semmie Williams records indicate that he absolutely was) and they cannot keep to a very strict routine of care on their own, then they must be placed in a situation where someone ensures that they stick to their medications and routines. So many of these people are homeless because they can't or won't take their meds.

 

[branmuffin]

Semmie Lee Williams Jr., 39, is a drifter. Records show he has moved around a lot and his life has been chaotic and violent.
…
From 2004 to 2016 there were at least 12 criminal charges.

Here are the ones that speak to a danger to society.

• An assault involving strangulation. In that case, the victim was a senior citizen.
• 2 domestic assaults.
• Carrying a concealed electronic weapon

.…
McKamey is a former prosecutor in Palm Beach County- now a criminal defense attorney.

We showed McKamey Williams’ criminal history and he says, it doesn't matter what complications prosecutors encountered. He says they should have been more heavy-handed, he says the pattern of violence is alarming and blatant.

"How did this guy fall through the cracks and why was he ever let out?" McKamey said, "Because someone at first appearance should have said 'listen we don’t have convictions on all of these cases but there is a serious problem here, this guy has an extremely violent history, maybe he’s mentally ill.' "

And McKamey says extremely high bonds or no bonds should have been used to keep Williams off the streets.
…
We showed McKamey the Youtube page and he says these videos suggest paranoid delusions, he says he saw it often as a prosecutor.
…
"This monster was out on the street when obviously, clearly, he shouldn’t have been," McKamey said.

McKamey says the death penalty could be sought in the Williams case.

I Team: Semmie Williams criminal history

As much as it's a tragedy the how's and the why's Ryan died, calling a mentally ill person a monster is demonizing a segment of the population who suffer from mental illness. Especially, when there is no plan in place to help these people.

Psychiatric Illness And Criminality - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

When a person with schizophrenia kills someone schizophrenics are demonized. When a person with autism or Asperger's kills someone they are demonized. When good old Joe from down the street kills someone? Meh. Why is that? Because that old saying, There but for the grace of God....the only people the general population can relate to is good old Joe. And because most murderers don't suffer from any kind of mental illness.

Violence and mental illness: an overview

When people like Semmie Williams kill someone the issue of them falling through the cracks comes up. The crack must be a fissure a mile wide because there is no proper system in place to deal with them. They are left to their own devices.

I'm not making excuses for SW; he probably snuffed out the life of a vibrant, intelligent young man. But is it enough that we incarcerate people when they finally commit murder when the warning signs have been evident for decades?

 

[kinder]

"As far as I am concerned, justice is already on its way to whoever did this.. They are already being taken of- Karmic law will do what it does.. I just want it closed so we can move forward.. <3" is the exact quote which is sort of better than I remember but the want it closed? Not justice? Odd IMO

Looking back at this comment now knowing what we know, my hunch is mom knew LE had the guy when we did not. IMHO mom was saying karma is a b.

 

[kinder]

Many of us, locally, are wondering why none of that money has been offered and why there have been no statements from the parents asking for public help identifying the killer. There was almost $110K in that fund the last time I looked. The funeral could have cost a tenth of that.

The family was working to increase the reward and it was expected to be announced Monday 29 Nov 2021. I was surprised it wasn’t announced but now knowing what we know, LE had the suspect in their sights.

As for why the fundraiser website wasn’t closed down, keep in mind that mom is a single mom paying a mortgage and supporting a family in a very expensive area with a high cost of living. After something like this happening I can’t see mom returning to work anytime soon. People continue to donate and I think that’s okay.

 

[Vanilla Glitter]

As much as it's a tragedy the how's and the why's Ryan died, calling a mentally ill person a monster is demonizing a segment of the population who suffer from mental illness. Especially, when there is no plan in place to help these people.

I disagree. The murderer is a monster. Some humans are incompatible with society. No plan could have ever helped a monster like Semmie Lee Williams Jr. Perhaps lifelong incarceration. But that should have happened years ago.

Hopefully he is put to death soon. Useless monster.

 

[Vanilla Glitter]

I'm not making excuses for SW; he probably snuffed out the life of a vibrant, intelligent young man.

Probably? Again, monsters live amongst us. I hope he is gone soon.

 

[kinder]

The only lingering question I might have is if enough was done the night RR went missing. I'm not sure if we have seen detailed what all was done that night. There might be room for improvement there. JMO

I recall mom expressing concern that LE was unable to use sniffer dogs to help track Ryan down the night she and police went searching on Monday 15 Nov 2021. Had the dogs been available LE may had searched the right area and found Ryan that night instead of the next morning. At that point, Tuesday 16 Nov 2021, everyone was still under impression his death was an accident and I think she was upset that he was alone overnight. I can understand how a mother would feel that way, that he was alone even though he had already passed. I recall hearing her say that the police dogs were being used at another crime.

 

[Warwick1991]

I think mentally ill people can also be evil. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Most mentally ill people aren’t murderers. Even with paranoid delusions, many schizoid/schizophrenic people know right from wrong. I would say that Williams is not only mentally ill, but evil.

 

[katydid23]

As much as it's a tragedy the how's and the why's Ryan died, calling a mentally ill person a monster is demonizing a segment of the population who suffer from mental illness. Especially, when there is no plan in place to help these people.

Psychiatric Illness And Criminality - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

When a person with schizophrenia kills someone schizophrenics are demonized. When a person with autism or Asperger's kills someone they are demonized. When good old Joe from down the street kills someone? Meh. Why is that? Because that old saying, There but for the grace of God....the only people the general population can relate to is good old Joe. And because most murderers don't suffer from any kind of mental illness.

Violence and mental illness: an overview

When people like Semmie Williams kill someone the issue of them falling through the cracks comes up. The crack must be a fissure a mile wide because there is no proper system in place to deal with them. They are left to their own devices.

I'm not making excuses for SW; he probably snuffed out the life of a vibrant, intelligent young man. But is it enough that we incarcerate people when they finally commit murder when the warning signs have been evident for decades?

I agree with much of what you say. It is very complex. And the warning signs are so evident in so many cases and so many fall through the cracks.

My younger brother was a paranoid schizophrenic, diagnosed in the early 80's. Even back then, there was very little that could be done to help them unless they cooperated---which of course they cannot, because of the severe paranoia.

Saying, 'I am trying to help you' to a paranoid schizophrenic is like waving a red cape at a bull. It triggers their defenses and things go sideways fast.

HOWEVER, in this case here, there were some prior cases that could have and should have kept him locked up , either in psych hospital or prison system, to protect the public from his violent tendencies.

My brother never acted out TOO violently. He did push an old man in a grocery store once, because he thought it was a Russian spy following him to kill him for being ex CIA officer---for real. He believed it for real. But he never ever , thank goodness, used a weapon.

But I was relieved the few times he was incarcerated because he was actually safer at that time, imo. He even said the same thing. Sometimes it kind of calmed him down. And he was sent to halfway houses upon his release and they helped him tremendously to stay focused and to stay on his meds.

This guy should have been dealt with by being committed to psych hospital at the very least, after his earlier violent assaults. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I think mentally ill people can also be evil. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Most mentally ill people aren’t murderers. Even with paranoid delusions, many schizoid/schizophrenic people know right from wrong. I would say that Williams is not only mentally ill, but evil.

That^^^ is a very good point. My brother knew right from wrong, was a good kid and was raised very well by nurturing parents. So when he was hit with onset of schizophrenia as a college student, it was a shock to all of us, including him.

He had paranoid delusions and voices he heard in his head, daily, routinely. But only a few were telling him to do bad things. He had many others trying to combat that and tell him to be good. It was fascinating as I think it was an internal struggle playing out in his head.

That is why some of the transients that are mentally unbalanced can be so dangerous. It is easy for them to snap, since they have so much external and financial pressure and so many stressful experiences/opportunities. And they are unable to cope with sudden emotions if they are high or drunk and vulnerable with no place to go.

 

[Seattle1]

I think mentally ill people can also be evil. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Most mentally ill people aren’t murderers. Even with paranoid delusions, many schizoid/schizophrenic people know right from wrong. I would say that Williams is not only mentally ill, but evil.

I thought about this post after reading this article where a 24-year-old man comes around a corner quickly and drop-kicks an 84-year-old gentleman in the face that was sitting on his walker chair, waiting at a bus stop. No words were even exchanged-- just a cruel, evil act by a person that's allegedly mentally ill. This kick -- knocking the 84-year-old off his walker to the ground could have easily killed him. The elderly man will live in fear for his remaining days, and will never be the same. It was awful to watch the video replay.

Asian man, 84, who was kicked in the face while waiting for the bus faces his attacker in court | Daily Mail Online

 

[Lusitana]

I think mentally ill people can also be evil. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Most mentally ill people aren’t murderers. Even with paranoid delusions, many schizoid/schizophrenic people know right from wrong. I would say that Williams is not only mentally ill, but evil.

100% agree with this. Most mentally ill people don't go out murdering random kids. Just because he is mentally ill, it doesn't mean that he wouldn't still be a murderer if he wasn't mentally ill.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Maybe don't equate being poor or mentally ill with criminal behavior.

We have thousands of people locked up on non-violent drug offenses (addiction) while violent mentally ill people are put out into the street to randomly stab children to death.

Actually, those struggling with addiction are far more likely to be violent than someone with schizophrenia. If you take with someone with schizophrenia who also has a substance abuse problem, then the risk increases exponentially.

We do commit people against their will if they're a danger to self or to society. I would need to know more about this case, but I am wondering why that wasn't done since this individual was clearly a danger to others.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

IMO many are now on the streets. Shutting down the state hospitals made people feel good, again JMO

I agree completely. Not to go in a tangent but I personally believe that the public housing, inpatient mental health and prison systems all need to be handled and even thought of as one large system with a sliding scale of how much freedom and how much treatment residents get. Also the opportunity to feel productive like just labeling packages or even just busy work for very troubled people like this guy. Idle hands are the devil's playthings.

I don't even want to look for how many crazy ranting street videos like this guy's there probably are on YouTube now. It would make me more inclined to carry and I don't like that social trend.

Let's be clear here. All the state hospitals were NOT shut down. Every single state still has at least one state hospital for the chronically mentally ill and they all have a forensics unit for the NGRI folks. Deinstitutionalization happened because the way we treated the mentally ill was repulsive. Absolutely repulsive. The vast majority of individuals with mental illness are more likely to be the VICTIMS of violent crime than the perpetrators, yet we locked all of them up. Deinstititutonalization acknowledged that mental illness does NOT make one homicidal and that those with mental illness have the right to live and roam freely. If they are a danger to themselves or others, then they should be committed. Obviously, some fall through the cracks, but that does not mean we should lock them all up.

Also, can someone point me to where it was confirmed this guy has a mental health diagnosis or condition? Are we all going by his rantings? Because that doesn't prove a mental health diagnosis. First, substance abuse and (more importantly) substance withdrawal which many homeless people experience for obvious reasons leads to delirium which can look very much like decompensated psychosis. Second, we don't know if he has any other neuropsychiatric condition, such as neurosyphillis, HIV encephalopathy, or a number of other conditions that affect cognition and reality testing. Where are we getting this is schizophrenia? Is it confirmed somewhere? Admittedly, I just happened upon this thread and have only skimmed the last 10 pages or so so it's entirely possible I missed it.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think mentally ill people can also be evil. The two aren’t mutually exclusive. Most mentally ill people aren’t murderers. Even with paranoid delusions, many schizoid/schizophrenic people know right from wrong. I would say that Williams is not only mentally ill, but evil.

So schizoid isn't a mental illness, per se (at least not a severe mental illness). It's a personality disorder. It's called Schizoid Personality Disorder and these people are not psychotic. They avoid people because they like being alone, but they are fully functional individuals. They have problems with trusting others that can look like paranoia, but they are not the type who think the government is bugging their phones. It's a different thing than schizophrenia (as is schizotypal which is also a personality disorder).

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

We're a hell of a lot closer to YouTube channels with hours of the rantings of insane people, who in hindsight turn out to be murderers than we are to a five part TV News documentary from 1968. The social media presence of these people gets locked down awfully fast but more and more often not before it gets archived. Regardless of or despite the cultural agenda, people are becoming increasingly aware of problems that fifty years ago were common knowledge.

Absolutely not true. I'd be curious to see some of these rantings because the vast majority of murderers are NOT mentally ill. They're just not. That's based on evidence. The way we did things 50 years ago was WRONG by all standards of humanity and human rights. What happened to this young boy was awful, but to suggest this is common is just plain factually inaccurate and unfair to the mentally ill community.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

As much as it's a tragedy the how's and the why's Ryan died, calling a mentally ill person a monster is demonizing a segment of the population who suffer from mental illness. Especially, when there is no plan in place to help these people.

Psychiatric Illness And Criminality - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

When a person with schizophrenia kills someone schizophrenics are demonized. When a person with autism or Asperger's kills someone they are demonized. When good old Joe from down the street kills someone? Meh. Why is that? Because that old saying, There but for the grace of God....the only people the general population can relate to is good old Joe. And because most murderers don't suffer from any kind of mental illness.

Violence and mental illness: an overview

When people like Semmie Williams kill someone the issue of them falling through the cracks comes up. The crack must be a fissure a mile wide because there is no proper system in place to deal with them. They are left to their own devices.

I'm not making excuses for SW; he probably snuffed out the life of a vibrant, intelligent young man. But is it enough that we incarcerate people when they finally commit murder when the warning signs have been evident for decades?

Psychiatrists evaluate for dangerousness in every meeting with every patient. If one is deemed to be an imminent danger to himself or others, then they are admitted on a psychiatric hold and sent to a psych hospital for full evaluation. In most states, the hospital psychiatrist has 48-72 hours to complete the eval. If the patient is not dangerous, they are released. If the patient is still deemed to be dangerous, then the psychiatrist files for a court hearing, usually held within a week, and a judge rules on involuntary commitment.

For individuals who are not an imminent threat, but may be if they don't take their meds, we have community commitments, which mean that the individual can live in the community, but is required to take meds. So for monthly antipsychotic injectables, the patient is generally picked up by a law enforcement officer and brought to the clinic for a shot. If the patient flees, then they usually end up homeless and fall through the cracks.

 

[Seattle1]

Also, can someone point me to where it was confirmed this guy has a mental health diagnosis or condition? Are we all going by his rantings? Because that doesn't prove a mental health diagnosis.

^^rsbm

ITeam News 12 also questioned whether or not SW had a diagnosed mental condition and if so -- how did he manage to get released early and often...

I Team: Semmie Williams criminal history

 

[007mom]

Since I have not seen it mentioned yet, I wanted to share some quick observations that I picked up from Semmie’s comments in his YouTube videos. Note that these comments were random and did not come from one specific video. Instead, as I listened to the videos, I listened specifically for things that I hoped would give me some kind of insight as to why Semmie might feel threatened by Ryan and/or why he would attack someone so obviously innocent and who would not have been a threat to Semmie in any way. These are just a few of the things I heard Semmie say. Note that I’m paraphrasing. I didn’t write down actual quotes as I intended to do so later. I didn’t consider that YouTube would remove his account. Semmie’s world view was loaded with symbolism.

1. People wearing black and yellow are racists and want to harm/kill him. He would consistently point people out wearing these colors. Unfortunately, based on mom’s description of Ryan’s clothing that night, he was wearing a black hoodie with yellow Barcelona writing on it, black shorts, and black Nike shoes.

2. People on bikes, skateboards, and scooters were working for “bad” law enforcement and were a part of the group spying on him and gang stalking him. One bike got too close to him and Semmie reacted and said something to the guy about it. He became confrontational and the bike rider ignored him and kept going.

3. Semmie said that “bad” law enforcement used children to help them stalk and mentally torture him. He said that was indicative of how evil these people are.

A person who is mentally healthy would quickly see that Semmie lived in a perpetual state of paranoia. These comments were taken from his videos cumulatively and not one specific video. But these three things may have possibly been why Semmie saw sweet Ryan as a threat. It makes my heart break to think what Ryan must have faced when he encountered Semmie. Semmie exists in a heightened state of fear that most everyone around him wanted to harm or kill him. Just some food for thought for those studying this case and trying to make sense of the nonsensical.

 

[scriabina]

Since I have not seen it mentioned yet, I wanted to share some quick observations that I picked up from Semmie’s comments in his YouTube videos. Note that these comments were random and did not come from one specific video. Instead, as I listened to the videos, I listened specifically for things that I hoped would give me some kind of insight as to why Semmie might feel threatened by Ryan and/or why he would attack someone so obviously innocent and who would not have been a threat to Semmie in any way. These are just a few of the things I heard Semmie say. Note that I’m paraphrasing. I didn’t write down actual quotes as I intended to do so later. I didn’t consider that YouTube would remove his account. Semmie’s world view was loaded with symbolism.

1. People wearing black and yellow are racists and want to harm/kill him. He would consistently point people out wearing these colors. Unfortunately, based on mom’s description of Ryan’s clothing that night, he was wearing a black hoodie with yellow Barcelona writing on it, black shorts, and black Nike shoes.

2. People on bikes, skateboards, and scooters were working for “bad” law enforcement and were a part of the group spying on him and gang stalking him. One bike got too close to him and Semmie reacted and said something to the guy about it. He became confrontational and the bike rider ignored him and kept going.

3. Semmie said that “bad” law enforcement used children to help them stalk and mentally torture him. He said that was indicative of how evil these people are.

A person who is mentally healthy would quickly see that Semmie lived in a perpetual state of paranoia. These comments were taken from his videos cumulatively and not one specific video. But these three things may have possibly been why Semmie saw sweet Ryan as a threat. It makes my heart break to think what Ryan must have faced when he encountered Semmie. Semmie exists in a heightened state of fear that most everyone around him wanted to harm or kill him. Just some food for thought for those studying this case and trying to make sense of the nonsensical.

I remember those comments too, especially the specific bad colors and bicyclists. It's just devastating. I wonder how the guy managed to catch Ryan on his bike. Did Ryan perhaps fall off the bike first? I feel like Ryan would be able to out-bicycle someone who was on foot.