Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #140

[LaborDayRN]

Please excuse my uneducated question (I've been away from Abby & Libby's thread for a while).
If this was a case of catfishing or someone posing as someone else online, wouldn't LE have seen evidence of the scheme when they did a forensic analysis of the girls electronic devises and social media? I know there is probably a simple answer for this but I'm unaware of it.

 

[Jo in Calif]

"I think she was just taking a video to show us later and say, 'Hey, look at this really weird guy that was at the bridge earlier and this is what he looked like'.

"But the fact that she did take that video and she thought something wasn't right and she had to take it - it just amazes me.

"It just amazes me that she was able to think of that at that moment.

"I don’t know where the case would be if we didn't have that video," she added.

"I think that's one thing that intrigues people [about the case] to continue to look at it."

Murder victim's sister reveals why she thinks teen filmed suspect on rail line

 

[JnRyan]

Libby also could have sounded (or looked like) half of a couple in a squabble.

There is some controversy whether all of the "witnesses" were really there or were telling the truth.

IMO, it makes more sense that people DID see or hear something and just didn't know what they were witnessing. KG (Libby's sister) said that there were people there when she dropped Libby off. It was an unseasonably warm day with the day off of school. The park was a popular hangout.

The sound carries if you yell/scream. But nobody heard anything?
And nobody heard anything?

We've all wondered about the sound thing for some time. Gunshot? Scream? <modnsip> And if the girls were running from this killer could they have been out of breath and in a panic state when they got to the crime scene area? If that is the case, maybe they either didn't scream or scream loud enough. The crime scene was basically in a lower level and I know from hunting and being with military that hills can muffle the sound somewhat, negating how far away sound can be heard.

Still, I wonder why we've never heard anything about screams or gunshots. Even with sources - Facebook posts, Reddit, unauthorized YT videos, etc. - that can't be used here there is nothing about ANYONE hearing a scream. Not even the hint of a rumor.

 

[sandy_80]

Please excuse my uneducated question (I've been away from Abby & Libby's thread for a while).
If this was a case of catfishing or someone posing as someone else online, wouldn't LE have seen evidence of the scheme when they did a forensic analysis of the girls electronic devises and social media? I know there is probably a simple answer for this but I'm unaware of it.

yes if this was a catfishing crime ...we would have known this from the start .. ...add to this that the decision to take them out to the trails was taken minutes before they went out.. with no time for the supposed bg to arrive there exactly on time ...
its just the power of suggestion that make ppl change their theories every time le says something...

 

[MistyWaters]

We've all wondered about the sound thing for some time. Gunshot? Scream? <modsnip> And if the girls were running from this killer could they have been out of breath and in a panic state when they got to the crime scene area? If that is the case, maybe they either didn't scream or scream loud enough. The crime scene was basically in a lower level and I know from hunting and being with military that hills can muffle the sound somewhat, negating how far away sound can be heard.

Still, I wonder why we've never heard anything about screams or gunshots. Even with sources - Facebook posts, Reddit, unauthorized YT videos, etc. - that can't be used here there is nothing about ANYONE hearing a scream. Not even the hint of a rumor.

I’d bet locals who know more than we do are far more loyal to LE and the families, as opposed to thinking they have an obligation to satisfy public curiosity. Aside from that, I don’t believe anyone heard anything seriously suspicious because once it became widely known the girls were missing, surely they’d give information to LE such as hearing screams or gunshots, so then that first evening foul play would’ve been suspected.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Please excuse my uneducated question (I've been away from Abby & Libby's thread for a while).
If this was a case of catfishing or someone posing as someone else online, wouldn't LE have seen evidence of the scheme when they did a forensic analysis of the girls electronic devises and social media? I know there is probably a simple answer for this but I'm unaware of it.

I guess uneducated wasn't the appropriate term. I'm more uninformed ( or WAY behind in the thread! )

 

[MistyWaters]

I guess uneducated wasn't the appropriate term. I'm more uninformed ( or WAY behind in the thread! )

The truth is we are all uninformed as no charges have yet been laid and LE is keeping most of the evidence under wraps to protect the integrity of the investigation.

 

[stattlich1]

LE very well may have known this case to be a catfishing type case from the beginning. Investigative tactics and procedures could most certainly have kept this information from the public.

Then there is that factory reset. That may have been an attempt to rectify a glitch in a phone. Or not.

And yet other examples exist, that I can conjure, that would prevent LE, and others, from seeing, or knowing the truth.

So we either have a murderer who lay in wait for the opportune time, choosing two victims on a bridge to commit his crime, or, we have a murderer who somehow knew one, or both of those victims were going to be on that bridge, on that day.

I, for the most part, have been inclined to believe the latter, rather than the former. And in light of recent revelations, tend yet even more so in that direction.

Kids do Othello. Adults do Hamlet. I've used this analogy for years. It's based on my 25 year career working with at-risk teenagers. It is of paramount importance, for those adults who are so inclined, to discover the secrets of Othello.

 

[sandy_80]

it doesnt make sense.. that this was a catfishing case yet le came out right at the beginning and denied strongly with the family the presence of any online connection ..after examining the devices.. cause you can go back in time and see they did say that

another would say ..sure they were lying to protect the investigation..I dont even why is that a thing that is possible..
hmm its been 5 years and you still have nothing...
a simpler explanation would be.. that this creep was investigated by them years ago and now they are embarrassed by their failure to expose his danger..as his trial was about to begin and the media caught this info.. depressing but makes more sense ?

 

[stattlich1]

LE owes the public absolutely nothing. In fact, in a criminal homicide investigation, where a lengthy court case will likely unfold some day, the fact that LE remains silent is a good thing.

 

[Detective Willy]

Recapping this investigation so far, is KK now the 6th Person of Interest in this case?

From memory there has been PE, DN, TB, CE and JC previously. Have I missed any others?

 

[Megnut]

it doesnt make sense.. that this was a catfishing case yet le came out right at the beginning and denied strongly with the family the presence of any online connection ..after examining the devices.. cause you can go back in time and see they did say that

another would say ..sure they were lying to protect the investigation..I dont even why is that a thing that is possible..
hmm its been 5 years and you still have nothing...
a simpler explanation would be.. that this creep was investigated by them years ago and now they are embarrassed by their failure to expose his danger..as his trial was about to begin and the media caught this info.. depressing but makes more sense ?

I think both things can be true -- this is about catfishing and there's no (direct) online connection to the girls' social media/devices -- because it may well be about catfishing, but neither of these two girls was the target. Another child may have unwittingly disclosed the destination/intention/location of her friends.

A and L might not have expected to meet anyone that day. But a scary adult had every intention to meet them. And far, far worse.

I assume we've only heard a broken snippet of the audio recorded that day. I imagine LE holding portions back, for investigative reasons.

I won't be surprised if ultimately we learn how the girls were manipulated into captivity. A simple request for help, guys, down the hill....

It takes a special (wicked) kind of perpetrator (if it turns out there was one and only one) to incapacitate two victims.

I watch Criminal Minds. (So I'm an expert of -- let me see -- nothing.) What I've seen, to control two individuals, the threat is real. A weapon held to one individual, for instance, might secure absolute (and understandable) control over the second -- sheer terror but no scream, full compliance because the other's very life might depend on it.

It's horrifying to imagine what happened that day, made all the worse by that possible overlap in the park, by the perpetrator leaving and the father arriving.

Help was so close --

Devastating.

JMO

 

[paraphrase]

Recapping this investigation so far, is KK now the 6th Person of Interest in this case?

From memory there has been PE, DN, TB, CE and JC previously. Have I missed any others?

Possibly TJ? I believe he belonged to the same church youth group as the girls.
GUILTY - IN - Ryan Martin, 29, murdered in suspect Talmadge Jasper's home, Lafayette, 23 May 2019

 

[MollyDDD]

during one of the press conferences, I can’t recall which one, the sheriff said the were “brutally murdered”.

So perhaps, scattered body parts.

 

[Ravenmoon]

So perhaps, scattered body parts.

I don't think so? They had open casket services.

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[crussell821]

We've all wondered about the sound thing for some time. Gunshot? Scream? <modnsip> And if the girls were running from this killer could they have been out of breath and in a panic state when they got to the crime scene area? If that is the case, maybe they either didn't scream or scream loud enough. The crime scene was basically in a lower level and I know from hunting and being with military that hills can muffle the sound somewhat, negating how far away sound can be heard.

Still, I wonder why we've never heard anything about screams or gunshots. Even with sources - Facebook posts, Reddit, unauthorized YT videos, etc. - that can't be used here there is nothing about ANYONE hearing a scream. Not even the hint of a rumor.

If he immediately had a gun on them, they might have been too frightened to scream. MOO

 

[AC4RD]

Still, I wonder why we've never heard anything about screams or gunshots. Even with sources - Facebook posts, Reddit, unauthorized YT videos, etc. - that can't be used here there is nothing about ANYONE hearing a scream. Not even the hint of a rumor.

Absolutely. And it strikes me that BG must have felt relatively secure about keeping them both quiet. You know if you've been there--sometimes a shotgun goes off 50 yards away and you can't hear it, out in the woods and hills. And other times, deep in the woods, you can hear a car a mile away on the highway. You just can't predict how well sound is going to travel. AND we've heard KG say there were other people around at the trails that day.

Keeping in mind that one scream from one of the girls could have put BG into a jail cell for the rest of his life, or even on Death Row, Bridge Guy MUST have been relatively sure he could keep the girls fairly quiet.

That must mean something. BG used some ruse to keep the girls quiet:; uniform? clerical garb? clown suit? How could you be sure you could abduct two teens and NOT have any screams?

 

[mom2chloe]

Absolutely. And it strikes me that BG must have felt relatively secure about keeping them both quiet. You know if you've been there--sometimes a shotgun goes off 50 yards away and you can't hear it, out in the woods and hills. And other times, deep in the woods, you can hear a car a mile away on the highway. You just can't predict how well sound is going to travel. AND we've heard KG say there were other people around at the trails that day.

Keeping in mind that one scream from one of the girls could have put BG into a jail cell for the rest of his life, or even on Death Row, Bridge Guy MUST have been relatively sure he could keep the girls fairly quiet.

That must mean something. BG used some ruse to keep the girls quiet:; uniform? clerical garb? clown suit? How could you be sure you could abduct two teens and NOT have any screams?

Silencing one with a small gun or knife. IMO They were looking out for each other. IMO

 

[stattlich1]

Look up a couple videos that show what a "glock 9mm with silencer" sounds like.

So BG says "guys" immediately pulls the glock, shoots one of the girls in the arm, or shoots in to the ground by their feet, and says "make one sound and I'll kill you both", now, get "down the hill".

I'd imagine at that stage, a grown man would likely comply.

 

[AC4RD]

Silencing one with a small gun or knife. IMO They were looking out for each other. IMO

Yes, but the problem is that if BG *used* the gun, the game would have been up and he would have needed to start running. For all BG knew, people on the trails would have heard a shot and wondered what was up, wouldn't they? Some were probably 300-400 yards away? So BG could have scared or intimidated the girls with a gun, but actually using it would have ended the event.

BG must have known that, though, don't you think? So my guess here is that he had some sort of ruse that made him feel confident in keeping the girls silent. Uniform/badge have been suggested many times and it seems workable IMO. Is there anything else, any other disguise or accessory or something, that could have ensured the girls didn't scream?

Just MHO, but once again, if one of the girls HAD screamed, it could certainly have landed BG in a jail cell for life. Or on a gurney with an IV in his arm. BG must (just MHO again) have felt secure about keeping the girls controlled.