Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #27

[mrjitty]

I see what you mean. HB was really unhappy with the investigation in Portugal. She gave a very detailed description of what she endured and she even went public in 2015 talking about her rape. Nothing was followed up back then. She was very disillusioned until the rape of DM was made public. As a woman, I really cannot blame her for accusing someone directly even before that person is charged. It is the same with all victims who know or at least think they know the perpetrator. I find it a facet of human nature and I cannot condemn it.

However, the same happened with the mum of the girl who he supposedly sexually attacked on the beach. She recognised him and went to the media. Same with witnesses who had given detailed descriptions (CT comes to mind). I sincerely think it is just natural to want to blame someone specifically and especially when you (think you) have been a victim of that someone.

On your other point, this is mainly a problem of the media and not of the investigating officers. So I take no real issue with that. I am just waiting patiently for charges

To be clear, I am fine with public appeals for information by law enforcement - though i do find the German approach to this odd where the suspect is publicly accused based on secret evidence. This different to the UK and now what I am used to.

What I think is not great in terms of natural justice is HCW speculating on what charges may or may not eventuate in different matters, in international media.

Seek information on crimes sure. But charge people or not. I think the running commentary is odd.

 

[mrjitty]

The first hit on a google search for HB gives a Sun article which states, “It also revealed how Busching had tried to report his concerns to the Portuguese police but had been fobbed off.”

Below is the article which doesn’t give a date but I’m sure it was 2008.

Witness in new Maddie probe says suspect must 'stay in jail for long time'

ETA: IMO, the fact that HB gave the PJ CB’s name is a real lead and if it wasn’t followed up, it’s a far more unforgivable mistake than not identifying CB in the initial investigation ... as a follow up to our prior posts.

This is where the trial will make timings a lot clearer.

HB apparently did not tell authorities about the video tape of the American woman until 10+ years later.

So the manner in which he allegedly ratted out CB to PJ will be quite important to the defence case. Did he make serious efforts back in the day?

The defence will no doubt seek to claim that he didn't make these allegations until he had his own legal problems

 

[C.greek]

To be clear, I am fine with public appeals for information by law enforcement - though i do find the German approach to this odd where the suspect is publicly accused based on secret evidence. This different to the UK and now what I am used to.

What I think is not great in terms of natural justice is HCW speculating on what charges may or may not eventuate in different matters, in international media.

Seek information on crimes sure. But charge people or not. I think the running commentary is odd.

What HCW has said is that they are investigating the involvement of CB is some committed crimes - the media are making it sound bigger than it is or what HCW says.

I was reading an interesting report about judges, investigating officers and senior police officers in Germany and their knowledge of dealing with the media. From that report, published in 2019 I think, it appears their experience and/or training is minimal. There is a press office of course but the rest do not know how to deal with reporters etc. This might explain why HCW appears to be misquoted often, or says things that the media are making a bigger deal out of than HCW's possible intention.

On this case, i don't recall HCW accusing CB openly for any other crime than MM's murder. The rest is just part of ongoing investigation. Jmo

 

[C.greek]

This is where the trial will make timings a lot clearer.

HB apparently did not tell authorities about the video tape of the American woman until 10+ years later.

So the manner in which he allegedly ratted out CB to PJ will be quite important to the defence case. Did he make serious efforts back in the day?

The defence will no doubt seek to claim that he didn't make these allegations until he had his own legal problems

Or he wanted the money

Eta. How easy is it for a crook, already in problems with the law, to confess they know something about a crime committed. I think most would not risk it. Unless there is money involved? Or they want to get back to the person they are accusing. I don't see any other way

Also, why would this mininise the importance or credibility of the witness' statement? On the contrary as has been said above SY went to overjealous efforts to protect this witness when they flew out to Athens to take his statement.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Or he wanted the money

Eta. How easy is it for a crook, already in problems with the law, to confess they know something about a crime committed. I think most would not risk it. Unless there is money involved? Or they want to get back to the person they are accusing. I don't see any other way

Also, why would this mininise the importance or credibility of the witness' statement? On the contrary as has been said above SY went to overjealous efforts to protect this witness when they flew out to Athens to take his statement.

I’m confused, the Sun article I quoted above said HB received no inducements for his statement regarding MM.

And, if I remember correctly, your original translation of the Greek documents stated that he only gave his statement after being released from prison in Greece.

Are you suggesting he was paid for his evidence in the DM case or the MM case? Are you suggesting the either German or UK LE paid HB for his information?

 

[Sharkbite]

I think CB told him in 2008 at the kite festival, and the 2017 confession was someone else, a German in the bar in Germany, and I think HB informed the police in 2017, and they went to Greece to interview him

Don't forget the Portuguese friend DS that CB apparently confessed to on the 10th Anniversary. This friend is/was a DJ in Lagos so I guess this is where this confession took place. Mentioned here Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #24

 

[C.greek]

I’m confused, the Sun article I quoted above said HB received no inducements for his statement regarding MM.

And, if I remember correctly, your original translation of the Greek documents stated that he only gave his statement after being released from prison in Greece.

Are you suggesting he was paid for his evidence in the DM case or the MM case? Are you suggesting the either German or UK LE paid HB for his information?

I am only saying he might have been after the monetary reward. I have no idea- he was though out of prison at the time he called SY.

 

[RichardKimble]

Not so if he had already left the area.

But did he, no one seems interested in movement after the fact.

 

[RichardKimble]

I’m confused, the Sun article I quoted above said HB received no inducements for his statement regarding MM.

And, if I remember correctly, your original translation of the Greek documents stated that he only gave his statement after being released from prison in Greece.

Are you suggesting he was paid for his evidence in the DM case or the MM case? Are you suggesting the either German or UK LE paid HB for his information?

The sun article talks of him being in custody, I think the articles from the brit press must be taken with a pinch of salt, look how they had to pay out to Murat, the McCann's and the Tapas group, easy to go after CB who is in jail.

 

[JB1510]

Not directly linked to the MM case, but i can remember long discussions earlier about a possible motive and that paedophiles do not have to be murderers, just because they are producing child *advertiser censored*. Even FF stated, that just because CB has a peadophile past and criminal record, nothing points out to the assumption, that he could be a psychopath and murderer.

Well, looks like as if these horrible things do happen! Even in highly frequented areas....

Horrifying moment girl, five, is seized by 'paedophile and his male lover' in Russia | Daily Mail Online

That is horrific , the poor girl. Shame the lynch mob couldn’t get to them , sickening. RIP Veronika

 

[C.greek]

I have a quite irrelevant comment to make: I was reading CT's interview. OMG the questions and the way the questions are asked by the police are really intimidating and could very much easily confuse someone. It's not like they help the person being interviewed clarify things, but they can definitely make one doubt everything...

 

[Zuleika]

.

I have a quite irrelevant comment to make: I was reading CT's interview. OMG the questions and the way the questions are asked by the police are really intimidating and could very much easily confuse someone. It's not like they help the person being interviewed clarify things, but they can definitely make one doubt everything...

I have a quite irrelevant comment to make: I was reading CT's interview. OMG the questions and the way the questions are asked by the police are really intimidating and could very much easily confuse someone. It's not like they help the person being interviewed clarify things, but they can definitely make one doubt everything...

That's what it's about ,making absolutely sure and for what it's worth I wouldn't be charging CB on the basis of her alleging it was him she saw that day when it appears she was simply bored with the conversation taking place and decided to watch a man closing a gate in a way she thought suspicious but could in fact been someone with obsessional tendencies making sure it was fastened .
Her statement was confused on a good few points to say the least yet adamant on others .

 

[C.greek]

.

That's what it's about ,making absolutely sure and for what it's worth I wouldn't be charging CB on the basis of her alleging it was him she saw that day when it appears she was simply bored with the conversation taking place and decided to watch a man closing a gate in a way she thought suspicious but could in fact been someone with obsessional tendencies making sure it was fastened .
Her statement was confused on a good few points to say the least yet adamant on others .

Maybe you are saying this as a highly intelligent person but for me if I was being asked the questions the way they were asked I would be utterly confused, not because I wouldn't trust my memory but because the point of these questions was to raise doubts. Her statement is pretty clear by the way! Nothing to doubt she saw a man resembling CB or even CB himself acting suspiciously the same day! So what you are saying above is pretty biased because you tend to dismiss all information that pinpoints CB. Fortunately in Germany they have no jury so another highly intelligent person with knowledge of the system would be asked to judge. Like it happened with giving permission to BKA to go public with intelligence you deem insufficient.

 

[misty48]

.

That's what it's about ,making absolutely sure and for what it's worth I wouldn't be charging CB on the basis of her alleging it was him she saw that day when it appears she was simply bored with the conversation taking place and decided to watch a man closing a gate in a way she thought suspicious but could in fact been someone with obsessional tendencies making sure it was fastened .
Her statement was confused on a good few points to say the least yet adamant on others .

In the Dutch version of Crimewatch 2013 it's worth noting that ex DCI Redwood said the man CT saw was exiting ground floor apartment 5C, which was unoccupied that week, not 5B as we had previously been led to believe. 2 female holidaymakers (JJ & AW) coincidentally saw 2 unknown men on the balcony of 5C around lunchtime on 3/5/07.

 

[Anxala]

I’m confused, the Sun article I quoted above said HB received no inducements for his statement regarding MM.

I remember reading that at the time (and not just at the link you provided earlier) and it did have a distinct whiff of an attempt at deliberate validating a witness who, let's be frank, was far from ideal, with his own dodgy criminal history. Was he paid? Who actually really knows?

That's not to say there was a self-serving element going on there (I don't know?), or that HB's own past excludes him from being a credible voice as far as CB is concerned... but I do hope the BKA's case is not reliant upon him.

Do we know enough about him for him to fulfil the 'Honour amongst Thieves' code of conduct?

 

[Zuleika]

Maybe you are saying this as a highly intelligent person but for me if I was being asked the questions the way they were asked I would be utterly confused, not because I wouldn't trust my memory but because the point of these questions was to raise doubts. Her statement is pretty clear by the way! Nothing to doubt she saw a man resembling CB or even CB himself acting suspiciously the same day! So what you are saying above is pretty biased because you tend to dismiss all information that pinpoints CB. Fortunately in Germany they have no jury so another highly intelligent person with knowledge of the system would be asked to judge. Like it happened with giving permission to BKA to go public with intelligence you deem insufficient.

Wrong ,wrong and wrong again about me dismissing all information that pinpoints CB .
I question the information .There's the difference !
You on the other hand come across to me as accepting without questioning tho at least you've admitted CT thought the man " resembled " CB ,but that's simply not good enough IMO .
As for CT being questioned by the police in that manner I think it's crucial that anyone being on the receiving end and being questioned twice as CT was , are absolutely certain their initial statement waa correct .

 

[RichardKimble]

Maybe you are saying this as a highly intelligent person but for me if I was being asked the questions the way they were asked I would be utterly confused, not because I wouldn't trust my memory but because the point of these questions was to raise doubts. Her statement is pretty clear by the way! Nothing to doubt she saw a man resembling CB or even CB himself acting suspiciously the same day! So what you are saying above is pretty biased because you tend to dismiss all information that pinpoints CB. Fortunately in Germany they have no jury so another highly intelligent person with knowledge of the system would be asked to judge. Like it happened with giving permission to BKA to go public with intelligence you deem insufficient.

But the most important time of all ,at night , two men were seen carrying children none of these match the description of CB, now either he was incredibly lucky in escaping all the potential witness's that were out and about or he wasn't there to be seen.

 

[onemoremiletogo]

But the most important time of all ,at night , two men were seen carrying children none of these match the description of CB, now either he was incredibly lucky in escaping all the potential witness's that were out and about or he wasn't there to be seen.

Tannerman and Smithman? Even Smithman can be really ruled out?! Where is the "negative" description?

 

[RichardKimble]

Tannerman and Smithman? Even Smithman can be really ruled out?! Where is the "negative" description?

The question should be where's the positive id.

 

[Tekno]

In the Dutch version of Crimewatch 2013 it's worth noting that ex DCI Redwood said the man CT saw was exiting ground floor apartment 5C, which was unoccupied that week, not 5B as we had previously been led to believe. 2 female holidaymakers (JJ & AW) coincidentally saw 2 unknown men on the balcony of 5C around lunchtime on 3/5/07.

That is very interesting and noteworthy, Misty. Thank you for sharing.