Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #145

[MistyWaters]

I don't believe a big search party was happening at 3 or even at 4. I think it was a few family members looking when they didn't show up in the parking lot. I'd be willing to bet the larger search where he would likely hear people yelling for the girls didn't happen till closer to 5. I don't see how he would know he needed an alibi at this point unless he knew they were dead and when the critical time was that they went missing. I person without knowledge of the crime itself wouldn't know at that point that the girls were killed between 2 and 3 and certainly didn't know anyone was even looking for missing girls until closer to 5, if not later.

I can’t think why RL would even be asked for an alibi before the bodies were discovered the following day. That first day the girls were only considered missing, no foul play suspected so there’d be no reason for LE to have been seeking alibis from any potential suspects. JMO

 

[Facinatingtimes]

I can’t think why RL would even be asked for an alibi before the bodies were discovered the following day. That first day the girls were only considered missing, no foul play suspected so there’d be no reason for LE to have been seeking alibis from any potential suspects. JMO

The call to the cousin asking for a false alibi happened the next morning 2/14 at 920am. Still before the bodies were found I believe, but lots of searching going on.

 

[Diddian]

I don't think the typeface size leaves enough room for either "blade" or "sharp." If there's a space before "weapon," which is likely due to proper grammar/formatting, there's room for only 3 or 4 letters at most. I think the proper nomenclature would have been "bladed." "Sharp" doesn't have enough space to fit, either. There's not enough room for "edged" which is another popular term for a weapon with a sharp cutting edge. I'd agree that the weapon probably was a bladed weapon, but I'm not sure of the redacted word. Perhaps it was some kind of LE acronym.

I agree with you about the spacing. I have considered possibilities for a cutting instrument that could be described as a "4-letter-word-weapon" and all I can come up with is: hook, snip, edge, dirk, or pick. Any of those might fit into that space, but since "a" precedes the word, it should begin with a consonant, so "edge" doesn't work.

It could also be another type of distinctive descriptor, like "red," or "blue," a material that a weapon might be made from, or simply "old" if there is some indication the material it is made of hasn't been manufactured or used for some time (some types of metals, ivory). ETA: No, old wouldn't work as it starts with a vowel.

I remember some kind of search of a nearby pork processing plant and wonder if there is some kind of instrument that a pork processing worker might use that could be described with four letters. Perhaps a similar tool might be used by a hunter, fisher, or rancher as well.

IMO, it seems like there is too much space for two- or three-letter words like "ax," "awl," or "saw," and too little space for words like "hatchet" (a tool which onetime POI DN reportedly carried with him). But, a hatchet resembles in some ways a pick in that each has a head and a handle that increases leverage.

Whatever the case, I hope some of the recent releases prod someone's memory or poke someone's conscience and produce that one tip that leads LE to whatever essential piece of evidence they need.

 

[TL4S]

Also wanted to point out that this released document has the exact GPS coordinates of the crime scene, for those who always wonder if the place reported in MSM or by LE is exactly where it was or merely an estimate (or purposeful misstatement). I mapped it and it is approximately below the cemetery. On the satellite map I looked at, which of course is particular to the time it was captured and may not be representative of the day they were killed - it was very near shallow places in the creek. It's in the general place that most people assumed it was, but I know there has been debate on this point.

Yes, I did the same measurements and I can finally concede that LE's distance references are off by a fair amount, and the girls were indeed found below the cemetery. I'm glad I have the evidence to put that question to rest in my own mind.

 

[S.Callen]

When I was reading the affidavit, my mind went to a “sharp” weapon.

 

[Falcon500]

I don't think the typeface size leaves enough room for either "blade" or "sharp." If there's a space before "weapon," which is likely due to proper grammar/formatting, there's room for only 3 or 4 letters at most. I think the proper nomenclature would have been "bladed." "Sharp" doesn't have enough space to fit, either. There's not enough room for "edged" which is another popular term for a weapon with a sharp cutting edge. I'd agree that the weapon probably was a bladed weapon, but I'm not sure of the redacted word. Perhaps it was some kind of LE acronym.

It was meant to be either “edge“or “blade”. Somehow these short handed versions of edged snd bladed have slipped into the laguage and are used all of the time in law enforcement language. A good example is during recruit school rookie are given instruction on defending against “edge” weapons.

Alo addressing a previous post about Logan being declared “innocent” by LEO that isn’t going to happen. Law enforcement doesn’t declare ANYONE innocent.

 

[TL4S]

I guess there are things about this RL affidavit that might have made more sense back in 2017, but now, it doesn't fit. The first sketch and description was still too young to be RL. In the April 2019 PC, LE released a new, younger sketch and discussed a vehicle parked in the CPS lot. What reason would RL have to park at a lot farther away than his own driveway?

Later, as recently as 2020, LE was interviewing KAK, telling him he was the last person to talk to L on the day they died, as a_shots. They've had two public asks specific to a_shots.

Then, we have BMcD asking KAK if he and his dad knew RL. Was that just a random question, or did she know something we don't? Maybe RL was caught up in the CSAM case, on some level. Who knows, but in the last few months, LE is not asking about RL, they are asking about a_shots.

ETA: Which odds are better? A 77 year old man knowing he might get caught on a probation violation lying and using his phone on his own property? Or a younger man charged with CSAM, who admittedly groomed young girls, including L, who lied and followed the case closely, and whose fake profile was the last to speak with one of the murder victims?

 

[MistyWaters]

The call to the cousin asking for a false alibi happened the next morning 2/14 at 920am. Still before the bodies were found I believe, but lots of searching going on.

Thank you for that piece of information.


But still another thing thing that doesn’t make sense to me is what’s the point of someone giving an alibi for a different time of day since LE would be far more interested in the store receipt or CCTV at the aquarium store to prove when someone was there.

 

[FromGermany1]

Trying to compare the number of characters based on the letters and space below & above I think it could be 4 letters. “Dull”?

"Club" weapon perhaps? Not sharp, but.

 

[cuecard]

I can understand them really looking at RL initially, esp when you read that warrant. However, almost two years after this warrant is dated, LE veer in a completely different direction with the new, younger looking sketch and the "shifting gears to a new investigative strategy" comment in the 2019 press conference which makes you think it is not RL and they don't think so either.

I think if BG is not RL (and I don't think he is personally) then LE need to come out and clarify that a bit because I can see this creating another storm around this investigation, which could end up just being a case of turning in circles again.

 

[justtrish]

I can’t think why RL would even be asked for an alibi before the bodies were discovered the following day. That first day the girls were only considered missing, no foul play suspected so there’d be no reason for LE to have been seeking alibis from any potential suspects. JMO

I don't think he would have been unless LE just went to the property owners in the area and ask them to search their property thinking the girls could be injured somewhere. I think that is very common when kids go missing especially in rural areas. I see it a lot that it's publicly asked for anyone in the area to search their property, outbuildings, etc. Maybe something as simple as that the first day got him nervous or he could have just been nervous because he knew something and knew they'd be found on his property.

 

[Pimlipo]

I found it very interesting that Barbara McDonald asked KAK in that video interview if he or his Dad knew Ron Logan. When KAK said no he'd never even heard his name mentioned, before asking her next questioned BM said, "Interesting."

It seemed to me like she knew something, that she wasn't going into. Like maybe that was a question LE wanted her to ask?

Made me wonder if that's one of the questions KAK was asked in his polygraph. Just some thoughts.

Barbara McDonald interview with KAK on December 9, 2021

On page 11 of the transcript...

(...)

Q. Can I ask you do you know who Ron Logan is?

A. No I don't.

Q. Ron Logan is the property owner where the girl's bodies were found out by the
bridge.

A. Oh okay.

Q. Do you know if your father knows him?

A. I have no clue. I’ve never heard that name before.

Q. Interesting. (...)

tX Vid Interview by Barbara McDo (1).pdf

Really interesting in light of what’s come out today.
Added to the fact LE had the idea in March 2017 that the bodies had been posed/staged at the crime scene in order to possibly be “photographed to later be downloaded onto electronic storage devices for later viewing, scanning or copying.”

 

[Detective Cullerton]

Here is RL speaking about what happened after girls were murdered. Below are links

 

[Falling Down]

He could have seen the girls dropped off as he would have passed the trailhead to get to his house.

For reference, drop-off was at 1:37 per KG.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Too many spaces to be 'firearm' in any event. It could also be 'blunt', but my money in on 'blade'.

Long shot - but possibly adze?

EBM spell check changed the wording

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I don't believe a big search party was happening at 3 or even at 4. I think it was a few family members looking when they didn't show up in the parking lot. I'd be willing to bet the larger search where he would likely hear people yelling for the girls didn't happen till closer to 5. I don't see how he would know he needed an alibi at this point unless he knew they were dead and when the critical time was that they went missing. I person without knowledge of the crime itself wouldn't know at that point that the girls were killed between 2 and 3 and certainly didn't know anyone was even looking for missing girls until closer to 5, if not later.

I've read on a bunch of different occasions a kind of haphazard search happened after 6:30 PM, with people joining in through the evening.

LE were called by MP at 5:30.

 

[TL4S]

Thank you for that piece of information.


But still another thing thing that doesn’t make sense to me is what’s the point of someone giving an alibi for a different time of day since LE would be far more interested in the store receipt or CCTV at the aquarium store to prove when someone was there.

It does seem odd. I had to read and reread the affidavit, but in item 10, it says RL asked his cousin to say he arrived to pick up RL between 2 and 2:30 pm on the 13th. On line 13, it says RL told them his cousin arrived to pick him up at 3 pm. Not only do these times not match, but this call to his cousin occurred at 9:20 am on the 14th. So, it really does kind of make one wonder why he wanted an alibi for that time specifically, especially now knowing that his phone was used at 2:09 pm around his property (in or around). He wanted an alibi from right at the time of the murders, which is suspect, of course. But yet we know he really did leave for the aquarium shop by at least 4:45ish, based on the receipt time of 5:21.

One thing that stood out was the FBI wanted to seize any device that could have been used to "store evidence of the crime, research ways to conceal a crime or destroy a crime scene." That's probably common procedure, but it makes me curious what he bought at the aquarium store that he needed to drive to Lafayette to get, and also whether some of the crime scene had been destroyed.

 

[Falling Down]

The fact that in everything I have read states that no gunshot was heard or reported makes me think he used a gun just to subdue them and to march them thru the creek to the other side.

Also, since it shows that there was no evidence of either of the girls fighting back, my take on that is he cuffed them with rope (or more likely zip ties) so they couldn't fight back, then killed them with a big knife, maybe a hunting knife.

The other lesson for all of us here is the absence of knowledge of real evidence of what the police know makes us clueless as to how far ahead LE is of us. Some people are very fast in criticizing LE for not solving crimes, but in this case, you can see where everything in the affidavit led a reasonable person to think it was RL. RL was the prime suspect and for many reasons. The change in direction started to come when they could find no real evidence against RL for committing the actual murders and maybe there was ping evidence that he was not even close by (cell phone and video evidence) at the actual time of the murders.

I'm also guessing them arresting him on violation of his parole (driving and drinking) was a chance for him to give up the name of some other person staying on his property that he may have given a ride to. They leaned on him and gave him a chance to give up the name or person so as to not be prosecuted. He couldn't... or wouldn't do that.

Is it possible that RL did it, but LE could not find any evidence linking him to the crime????

This case makes me sicker and sicker at my stomach the more I think about those poor girls.

Pure speculation on my part, but I'd imagine that part of the reason why he had control of the girls was he tied them up, somehow. I've thought this since at least 2018. Perhaps even tied them together.

 

[JnRyan]

I can understand them really looking at RL initially, esp when you read that warrant. However, almost two years after this warrant is dated, LE veer in a completely different direction with the new, younger looking sketch and the "shifting gears to a new investigative strategy" comment in the 2019 press conference which makes you think it is not RL and they don't think so either.

I think if BG is not RL (and I don't think he is personally) then LE need to come out and clarify that a bit because I can see this creating another storm around this investigation, which could end up just being a case of turning in circles again.

This affidavit is a nice find for a defense attorney if there is ever an arrest. They can point to RL and since RL is now deceased that is very convenient.

 

[cuecard]

This affidavit is a nice find for a defense attorney if there is ever an arrest. They can point to RL and since RL is now deceased that is very convenient.

Yes, you are absolutely correct.