TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022

[Friday Fan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529895615412547597

The story keeps changing.

However parents are saying they had been at the school earlier for awards ceremonies and that doors were unlocked. So, I tend to believe a door was unlocked.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

This is somewhat related, but some Toronto schools went into lockdown for over two hours this afternoon when a resident spotted a teen or young adult with a rifle close to schools.

He was found and police shot and killed him after a confrontation.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6466880

https://twitter.com/x/status/1529888009730117632

 

[PrairieWind]

The story keeps changing.

However parents are saying they had been at the school earlier for awards ceremonies and that doors were unlocked. So, I tend to believe a door was unlocked.

If that is true it would seem to be a huge breach of security. For something like this, parents should have to enter the front door, check in with ID, get visitor badge and go to the auditorium. when it is over, they go back, return the visitor badge and leave out the front door. There would be no reason for side doors to be unlocked to allow entry.

 

[stattlich1]

Now we find out that there were no armed guards in or at the school, there was NO armed confrontation with this killer outside the school, and that this killer walked in to the school through an unlocked door. AND, one hour elapsed before LE attempted to enter the school.

Uvalde gunman walked through apparently unlocked door, DPS says | Houston Public Media

During the siege, which ended when a U.S. Border Patrol team burst in and shot the gunman to death, frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the school.

www.houstonpublicmedia.org

Texas police now say a school district police officer did not confront the gunman before the Uvalde school shooting

The guman was outside the school for 12 minutes and firing before entering Robb Elementary, according to a new police-provided timeline.

www.yahoo.com

 

[formerlyme]

If that is true it would seem to be a huge breach of security. For something like this, parents should have to enter the front door, check in with ID, get visitor badge and go to the auditorium. when it is over, they go back, return the visitor badge and leave out the front door. There would be no reason for side doors to be unlocked to allow entry.

without knowing all the facts, some thoughts, a spill or something creating a need for fresh air? Some type of repairman working on something going in and out? or of course just accidental.

 

[formerlyme]

I am not as concerned that the door was unlocked or opened as I am that the campus appears to be so accessible. That someone could even get to that door to enter a building.

 

[Bravo]

1 hour......I don't understand. I just don't. Sadly.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The general manager of Oasis Outback, a hunting store paired with a restaurant that’s located about three miles from Robb Elementary School, confirmed it was speaking with police, though he declined to name himself. An Oasis Outback employee, who declined to be named, also told The Daily Beast no one could remember a transaction with Ramos in the weeks leading up to the shooting, which left 19 students and two teachers dead. “We are all in shock,” they said.

Shop Where Texas Gunman Bought Firearms ‘in Shock’ Over Shooting

Salvador Ramos bought two weapons from Oasis Outback gun shop in Uvalde, according to authorities’ preliminary assessment.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[RANCH]

As soon as the gunman entered, he walked 20 to 30 feet and turned right to walk another 20 feet before turning left and into a classroom, according to Escalon.

So no locked doors to stop the shooter. Why?

Officers from multiple units and agencies — including local police and a tactical team from U.S. Customs and Border Protection — arrived at the scene but couldn’t enter the classroom.

The door to the classroom finally was opened when the principal produced a master key, state and federal law enforcement officials said.

The school is equipped with doors strong enough to prevent a specialized LE tactical team from entering. Why was the door to the classroom unlocked?

Gunman entered school unobstructed and started shooting, officials say

Contrary to earlier information from authorities, the shooter was not confronted by a school police officer before walking into the elementary school.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Cryptic]

The general manager of Oasis Outback, a hunting store paired with a restaurant that’s located about three miles from Robb Elementary School, confirmed it was speaking with police, though he declined to name himself. An Oasis Outback employee, who declined to be named, also told The Daily Beast no one could remember a transaction with Ramos in the weeks leading up to the shooting, which left 19 students and two teachers dead. “We are all in shock,” they said.

I dont know....

This could be a case of very selective memory. The report says that Ramos bought two weapons from them.

One of them was a Daniels Defense AR-15 clone. This is a top of the line clone manufacturer. The weapon probably cost noticeably more than any other similar weapon in the store (judging from their current inventory on line). Then factor in the second AR-15 clone purchase.

Yet, they say that they cannot remember Ramos? How many 18 years walk in to a store in small town Texas and buy two AR-15 rifles, one of them a top of the line model?

Selective memory aside, the Daniels Defense clone buy coupled with the second AR-15 clone purchase, body armour etc. might be inconsistent with Wendy's wages- even if living at home. The prices for a Daniels Defense clone seem to start at $1,900.

Even if used, I doubt they go down much. Likewise, the vendor is clearly not a "Deep Discount Warehouse" type business. So, near MSRP might be the selling price there. This could raise the question if somebody helped Ramos with the purchases.

 

[Peppery]

I wonder if he went directly to the "unlocked back door" or if he tried multiple doors until he found one that would open. Was there a specific person or classroom he targeted? Hopefully the school CCTV Will give us more information.

 

[formerlyme]

I dont know....

This could be a case of very selective memory. The report says that Ramos bought two weapons from them.

One of them was a Daniels Defense AR-15 clone. This is a top of the line clone manufacturer. The weapon probably cost noticeably more than any other similar weapon in the store (judging from their current inventory on line). Then factor in the second AR-15 clone purchase.

Yet, they say that they cannot remember Ramos? How many 18 years walk in to a store in small town Texas and buy two AR-15 rifles, one of them a top of the line model?

Selective memory aside, the Daniels Defense clone buy coupled with the second AR-15 clone purchase, body armour etc. might be inconsistent with Wendy's wages- even if living at home. The prices for a Daniels Defense clone seem to start at $1,900.

Even if used, I doubt they go down much. Likewise, the vendor is clearly not a "Deep Discount Warehouse" type business. So, near MSRP might be the selling price there. This could raise the question if somebody helped Ramos with the purchases.

and it was two separate visits. But it is a business, a business about making money....

 

[bestill]

I’m trying to understand this, and I am not being critical of LE. But if the monster was still on the loose, why would police be yelling out to the kids? I had thought the kids were taught to remain quiet and they would only be called out when the scene was clear (shooter taken down).

A boy, who said he had hidden under a table with a tablecloth, said the gunman had shot a girl shortly after she responded to officers when they asked people to yell if they needed help.

"When the cops came, the cop said: 'Yell if you need help!' And one of the persons in my class said 'help'," the boy told local news station KENS.

"The guy overheard and he came in and shot her," the boy said. "The cop barged into that classroom. The guy shot at the cop. And the cops started shooting."

Cops Accidentally Got Child Shot While Trying to Stop Texas Shooter—Student

"The cop said: 'Yell if you need help!' And one of the persons in my class said 'help.' The guy overheard and he came in and shot her," said a student.

www.newsweek.com

I'm way behind. Do you think it was a cop or the shooter that said "Yell, if you need help!"?

 

[Friday Fan]

Is anyone good looking at this Street View stuff? 420 Geraldine St · 420 Geraldine St, Uvalde, TX 78801

The school property is huge.
There is a chain link fence surrounding the property.

I can't get street view any more recent than 2011 for the ditch area.
In 2011, there were numerous gates...as a matter of fact there were too many gates!
Why so many?
Fast forward to 2021, I can't get views of the fence past the parking


However, if there were this many gates and many were still rickety, I could see how he could get on campus. It appears they have a new fence, but it doesn't appear to be very tall.

This is from 2011:
Numerous rickety gates



This is from 2021:
Can't get views of the gates past the loading zone. There is a new parking lot in the back.

 

[RANCH]

Is anyone good looking at this Street View stuff? 420 Geraldine St · 420 Geraldine St, Uvalde, TX 78801

The school property is huge.
There is a chain link fence surrounding the property.

I can't get street view any more recent than 2011 for the ditch area.
In 2011, there were numerous gates...as a matter of fact there were too many gates!
Why so many?
Fast forward to 2021, I can't get views of the fence past the parking


However, if there were this many gates and many were still rickety, I could see how he could get on campus. It appears they have a new fence, but it doesn't appear to be very tall.

This is from 2011:
Numerous rickety gates
View attachment 346242View attachment 346241


This is from 2021:
Can't get views of the gates past the loading zone. There is a new parking lot in the back.

View attachment 346240
View attachment 346244

That fence doesn't look very tall. JMO.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

The first part of this interview is very interesting in light of the fact that we now know there was no resource officer at the school.

Here is the source for there being no resource officer at the school:

There were no officers at the school when the gunman arrived, Escalon said, walking back earlier information put out by his agency that the gunman first encountered an armed school resource officer.
DPS officials had previously said the gunman was "engaged" by a school officer, and that the gunman dropped a black bag full of ammunition outside the school during that encounter.
That earlier information was "not accurate," Escalon told reporters, and nobody confronted the shooter from the time he left his grandmother's house to the time he entered the school. The shooter, he said, "walked in unobstructed, initially."

Link: What we know and don't know in the Texas massacre

 

[formerlyme]

I'm way behind. Do you think it was a cop or the shooter that said "Yell, if you need help!"?

I think it was a cop , trying to find the kids... not intending what happened to happen.

 

[formerlyme]

Is anyone good looking at this Street View stuff? 420 Geraldine St · 420 Geraldine St, Uvalde, TX 78801

The school property is huge.
There is a chain link fence surrounding the property.

I can't get street view any more recent than 2011 for the ditch area.
In 2011, there were numerous gates...as a matter of fact there were too many gates!
Why so many?
Fast forward to 2021, I can't get views of the fence past the parking


However, if there were this many gates and many were still rickety, I could see how he could get on campus. It appears they have a new fence, but it doesn't appear to be very tall.

This is from 2011:
Numerous rickety gates
View attachment 346242View attachment 346241


This is from 2021:
Can't get views of the gates past the loading zone. There is a new parking lot in the back.

View attachment 346240
View attachment 346244

The images I have seen show a fence along the back and playground area, and I agree with the noter that the fence is no that high. but I still think there was accessibility from the street to parking lot and parking lot to classrooms.

 

[curvilinear]

I’m an educator and work out of several P-12 buildings in my role. Offering my thoughts.

It is not common for elementary schools (in my rural and high poverty area) to have armed guards or full-time school resource officers. The SROs from the secondary schools serve the elementaries as needed.

When elementaries have big award events, talent shows, graduations, etc, it is common to have caregivers and families use a side entrance that feeds directly into the award area, like a gymnasium or cafeteria, rather than creating a chokepoint in the usually-small office foyer area. It also limits the visitors to the specific area of use, rather than having 100+ people walking through the core of the school with all the hallways, classrooms, and students. My elementaries (in several districts I've worked in) do not check in caregivers/family or issue visitor badges for these large events. Caregivers/attendees are contained to the area, staff block doors into the non-award areas, and then attendees leave immediately. Edited to add: there would usually be a sign-in sheet for attendees, but that's it.

What I'm wondering about, with the recent MSM news about how long the shooter was possibly shooting outside of the school (WSJ is reporting he was shooting outside the school for 12 minutes), is whether the school was in lockdown with all classroom doors locked. Anytime there is a possible threat near the school, the schools go into lockdown or lock-in protocols, which means no one is leaving their rooms, all the doors are locked, and all windows are blacked out. Once in the building, he should not have been able to enter a classroom without significant effort to get inside. (I’m wondering about the adjacent classroom set up and how that worked. Was it an empty classroom? Was there a retractable carpet wall that separated the rooms or was it a permanent cinderblock wall? Etc)

I’m also skeptical how the shooter knew about that unlocked door. Older buildings typically have lock issues (someone turns their key too many times and doesn’t realize the handle is unlocked, vs a FOB entry system that eliminates user error) or doors that don’t close all the way without being pulled shut, but I wouldn’t count on finding an unlocked door. Most of my buildings are very old and routinely have these issues that are being blasted out through e-mail, but, again, I wouldn't *count* on finding an unlocked door on any random day. IMO, something is up with that.

All MOO. IMO.

 

[stattlich1]

One point of entry to a public school building. ONE. With two armed guards manning it, during school hours.

In addition, 3 local LE, fully armed, during bus drop off and pickup in the morning/afternoon, every day.

Work towards installation of bullet proof glass on all ground floor levels.

Or, wait on legislation, which won't prevent criminals from accessing firearms.

All else, in my opinion, is political hype during an election year in the U.S.

The killer did the killing.