Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[Coldpizza]

William Tyrrell: ‘One million reasons’ to come forward over toddler’s abduction
7:29pm September 12, 2016

A $1 million reward, the largest in New South Wales history, has been announced for information that leads to the arrest of the person who abducted missing toddler William Tyrrell, or for the boy’s safe return or recovery.

William, then aged three, went missing from the backyard of his grandmother’s home in Kendall, on the state's mid-north coast, on September 12, 2014.

[...]

"You’re in a much better position if you come to us than if we come to you."

Det. Insp. Jubelin also said the investigation was "a long way" from going to a coronial inquest, and that police did not believe William's family were involved.

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS WRITTEN BELOW. YOU MUST FOLLOW WHAT IS OUTLINED OR YOU WILL BE TIMED OUT OR BANNED!!!!

Thanks to DrSleuth for your help in writing up the information needed for the discussion.

Here is what we can and cannot discuss.

No identifying the biological family, the foster family or any associates ( ie siblings, etc ) or their addresses, places of employment or childcare, etc

They can be identified as bio mother etc & female foster carer etc

At the inquest, they are known as biological mother & father. Foster family are known as FFC ( female foster carer ) MFC ( male foster carer ) FFGM ( female foster grandmother ) etc
REMEMBER THE ABOVE PEOPLE CANNOT BE IDENTIFIED USING THEIR INITIALS.

Prior to the coronial inquest, the bio families could be identified, but it was overturned by the coroner for the inquest.

I am very sorry it took me so long to open this thread back up. Please keep in mind we are short handed so if this thread starts to get out of control with alerts we will have to close it again.
Please do not hesitate to alert but make sure the alert is truly needed. We have experienced a lot of tit for tat alerts and that makes me foam at the mouth, grow hair on my hands and my teeth turn into fangs. In other words please be sure when you post you are posting within our terms of service.

Thank you,
Tricia

Rules Etiquette & Information

William Tyrrell MEDIA/MAPS/TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

Thread #28 Thread #29 Thread #30 Thread #31 Thread #32 Thread #33 Thread #34 Thread #35 Thread #36 Thread #37 Thread #38 Thread #39 Thread #40 Thread #41 Thread #42 Thread #43 Thread #44 Thread #45 Thread #46 Thread #47 Thread #48 Thread #49 Thread #50 Thread #51 Thread #52 Thread #53 Thread #54 Thread #55 Thread #56 Thread #57 Thread #58 Thread #59 Thread #60 Thread #61 Thread #62 Thread #63 Thread #64 Thread #65 (Thread #66 pulled for review) Thread #67 Thread #68 Thread #69 Thread #70 Thread #71

 

[Sillybilly]

So, does that mean it's OK to discuss any other books on the subject?

There is no blanket approval. Please contact a Mod or Admin with the name of the book and the author and we will make a decision.

Chumley's book "Searching for Spiderman" is not approved.

Gary Jubelin's book and Caroline Overington's book are the only two that are approved for discussion at this time.

I think they should be okay - as one is a journo and one is an ex-lead detective on the case - but I will alert on my post and see if a mod can clarify how we should reference. Whether that be the book and page number, or a screenshot of the specific excerpt from the page of one of the allowable books.

IIRC stormbird was putting up screenshots when she spoke of particular passages from Overington's book.

Both books can be discussed.

Always give credit to the author. Book title, page # and paraphrasing or brief quotes are allowed.

Screenshots and more extensive quoting requires approval of the author (the copyright holder).

Do not try to get more content in by breaking it up into multiple posts.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Have just spoken with Tricia and she agrees that members can discuss the recent events surrounding the issuing of the AVO and the foster parents as potential POIs (which y'all have been doing anyway, right?)

While WS policy is that we are victim friendly, and this extends to family members, the policy has to be examined as to how it relates to specific discussions and new information as it comes to light. This is a thread specific exception that is being made based on MSM, obvious action and ongoing investigation by Australian law enforcement.

Discuss matters factually and speculate reasonably but without trashing these people or making direct accusations. Members who do so will be banned from the thread.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This case has its very own set of very unique circumstances that we are having to work around and we know it is difficult for our members.

Of course we have William's case, but we also have the complicating factors of the foster situation, a living minor child, a coronial inquest that prevents publication of names, an AVO not known 100% to be immediately connected to William's case.

Taking all the above into consideration, we can not allow sleuthing of individuals who have not been publicly named.

Discussing what is in MSM is fine, but actual sleuthing of unnamed persons and posting about their background, their personal information or social media is not allowed.

Thanks to everyone here for trying to post accordingly through all this murkiness.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

IMPORTANT

PLEASE READ AND 'LIKE' THIS POST SO WE KNOW YOU HAVE READ IT.

Thread #66 remains pulled due to a recent influx of trolls. We may be able to get it reinstated in a couple of weeks.

Those individuals that we have been able to identify have been banned. There may be others who registered earlier and are waiting in the wings.

This new thread is for discussion only by our long term, veteran Websleuths members who have a sincere dedication to William's case.

As a result of this recent troll invasion we are not allowing new members to join in this discussion.

We are requesting that our trusted members Report posts by new members who join Websleuths after today to participate in William's thread. We will review the matter and deal with it accordingly.

Those whose goal is to incite conflict are not welcome at Websleuths.

Thank you to all our members who have been able to participate respectfully and responsibly in this discussion. We truly appreciate you.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[Green beans]

“Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame visited the search zone at Benaroon Drive, Kendall on Tuesday, July 3”

Coroner visits Tyrrell search site at Kendall

The forensic search into William Tyrrell's disappearance is in its last week of a month search

www.manningrivertimes.com.au

 

[sleepinoz]

Yes she did

Coroner visits Tyrrell search site at Kendall

The forensic search into William Tyrrell's disappearance is in its last week of a month search

www.portnews.com.au

As per your article - yes she did in 2019 - not with Laidlaw in 2021, which was the question in the original post.

 

[Warshawski]

Excellent thought re a possible accident theory…. Did William choke on a die?? He may easily had one or two in mouth while running…. Just being mischievous …

I do acknowledge that this doesnt fit with “Last Roar” as you need a patent airway to “roar” …

Were both dice accounted for, from that morning???

Again just HYPOTHETICAL
imo

Hi SLouTh.

Maybe I dreamt it, i don’t know - but I have this feeling that at one stage early on it was said that FFFC was inside playing dice with L & then William came in & he wanted to try too.

do you have any recollection of that?

( please everyone, unless we can substantiate, don’t put any value in this, as I may be way off)

all just my thoughts ..

 

[Green beans]

As per your article - yes she did in 2019 - not with Laidlaw in 2021, which was the question in the original post.

Ah sorry! TIA

 

[sleepinoz]

Hi SLouTh.

Maybe I dreamt it, i don’t know - but I have this feeling that at one stage early on it was said that FFFC was inside playing dice with L & then William came in & he wanted to try too.

do you have any recollection of that?

( please everyone, unless we can substantiate, don’t put any value in this, as I may be way off)

all just my thoughts ..

I think it was a dream Warsh

The photographs, tendered as exhibits to the inquest into his disappearance, show William with his foster grandmother and older sister surrounded by books and toys on the veranda of the Kendall home from which he vanished.

He can be seen playing with dice and leaning forward in his Spider-Man suit.

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/neverbeforeseen-photos-of-william-tyrrell-minutes-before-abduction/news-story/7ad0e147f361195409d52850c11ad71a

 

[Warshawski]

I think it was a dream Warsh

The photographs, tendered as exhibits to the inquest into his disappearance, show William with his foster grandmother and older sister surrounded by books and toys on the veranda of the Kendall home from which he vanished.

He can be seen playing with dice and leaning forward in his Spider-Man suit.

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/neverbeforeseen-photos-of-william-tyrrell-minutes-before-abduction/news-story/7ad0e147f361195409d52850c11ad71a

Yeah, thanks Sleep, I understand that, but I have this weird thing in the back of my head.

anyway, I’ll try to forget it ..

 

[bearbear]

Hi SLouTh.

Maybe I dreamt it, i don’t know - but I have this feeling that at one stage early on it was said that FFFC was inside playing dice with L & then William came in & he wanted to try too.

do you have any recollection of that?

( please everyone, unless we can substantiate, don’t put any value in this, as I may be way off)

all just my thoughts ..

i think i vaguely remember something like this too?

 

[bearbear]

so ffc spoke to a neighbour before going for the drive in her mothers car?

After searching inside and underneath the house, the foster mother said she asked a neighbour to help look for William before jumping in her mother's car

The vital minutes which could answer what REALLY happened to William

 

[SouthAussie]

so ffc spoke to a neighbour before going for the drive in her mothers car?

After searching inside and underneath the house, the foster mother said she asked a neighbour to help look for William before jumping in her mother's car

The vital minutes which could answer what REALLY happened to William

According to the flow of drsleuth's timeline ... she spoke with AMS, searched the reeds because AMS pointed her to the bus stop, then took the car out.


FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

Sorry for ramble just how I thought the morning went from what I have read so far from book. MFC leaves around 8.40 Kids have breakfast Kids dressed teeth brushed FFC called BS at 9.03 William gets bored inside so FFC takes William down to play in yard/climb tree. FFC see two cars parked...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Megnut]

<modsnip: Discussing moderation or removed posts is a violation of TOS>

Oh well, at least while looking around I found a much better copy of that photo on my travels to Channel 9. The one above is horribly degraded.

View attachment 350320

We've heard a lot about his roar.

What is in his hand?

Is Wm really roaring or is he complying, showing he didn't put anything into his mouth?

Maybe there's quite a bit about that morning that's been rewritten.

JMO

 

[Couldbe]

According to the flow of drsleuth's timeline ... she spoke with AMS, searched the reeds because AMS pointed her to the bus stop, then took the car out.


FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

Sorry for ramble just how I thought the morning went from what I have read so far from book. MFC leaves around 8.40 Kids have breakfast Kids dressed teeth brushed FFC called BS at 9.03 William gets bored inside so FFC takes William down to play in yard/climb tree. FFC see two cars parked...

www.websleuths.com

JMO - I think it be can difficult, when looking at a timeline, to connect and fill in the details.
I am posing the question about this aspect of DrSleuth's timeline: "....ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone..."; If it was during that period of time that FFC procured the keys to the Mazda from the kitchen bench, why wasn't FFGM aware of her doing that ... FFGM was sitting in the chair very close to the kitchen bench? BECAUSE FFGM says in her walkthrough:
"Detective Partridge asks the grandmother what happened next and is told that ‘between four and five minutes’ later her daughter disappeared after William.

"After remaining seated ‘for some time, then I didn’t hear from her, I got up and followed them down.’

Leading the detective around the side of the house she said, ‘I walked all the way down here wondering what’s going on’ and agreed she still couldn’t see her daughter and so ‘I went all the way down to the road.

‘When I got down to the road I could see Anne Maree (Sharpley) who lives there.

Edited to add: JMO - Maybe FFC already had the keys to the Mazda in her possession when she first ran to AMS house and talked to her!

 

[JLZ]

According to the flow of drsleuth's timeline ... she spoke with AMS, searched the reeds because AMS pointed her to the bus stop, then took the car out.


FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52

Sorry for ramble just how I thought the morning went from what I have read so far from book. MFC leaves around 8.40 Kids have breakfast Kids dressed teeth brushed FFC called BS at 9.03 William gets bored inside so FFC takes William down to play in yard/climb tree. FFC see two cars parked...

www.websleuths.com

I'd like to know whether DrSleuth heard AMS say she saw (or didn't see) FGM in the street at all.

 

[JLZ]

What if FGM has mixed up about which of the two was in the street visible from her block and which was walking up from the corner? Could it have been AMS who was coming back up from the bus stop and joined FGM and FFC in the road? Then FFC didn't go down to the bus stop area herself until after she called 000.

 

[SouthAussie]

What if FGM has mixed up about which of the two was in the street visible from her block and which was walking up from the corner? Could it have been AMS who was coming back up from the bus stop and joined FGM and FFC in the road? Then FFC didn't go down to the bus stop area herself until after she called 000.

Why would AMS/FM say AMS pointed FM to the bus stop, which FM then went to, to quickly look around .... if that didn't happen?
Seems like an easily verifiable fact, to me.

It seems that FM/FD were not charged with 'lying' about anything surrounding William's disappearance, following their testimony at Crime Commission hearings. No proof of perjury. No proof of misleading or false evidence in that regard.

 

[JLZ]

Why would AMS/FM say AMS pointed FM to the bus stop, which FM then went to, to quickly look around .... if that didn't happen?
Seems like an easily verifiable fact, to me.

It seems that FM/FD were not charged with 'lying' about anything surrounding William's disappearance, following their testimony at Crime Commission hearings. No proof of perjury. No proof of misleading or false evidence in that regard.

I'm not suggesting lying. I suggest there was a lot of activity, a series of similar events, and the various people have difficulty recalling the order. AMS did suggest the bus stop, but it's also been said that she went there herself. FFC did visit that area too, possibly more than once. For example Frogwell says:

When AMS told the court about the FM saying "he's hit his head....................", that was after they had an initial conversation and both of them had searched to the end of the street, they had split up and then rejoined each other, time had passed and now the FM was quite upset that she had not found WT and that he hadn't answered. She had to call the police.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #40

The woman also wept when she recalled seeing a third vehicle that morning - a green or teal-looking car which reversed in a neighbouring driveway and drove off. She said the driver was "a big man" in his late 50s who was Caucasian, had "sandy, reddy-coloured hair", a "thick neck" and looked...

www.websleuths.com

, BBM.

I suggest this is the most likely time for FGM to have encountered the two of them. I don't know which of the two was where. I do think a chunk of time had passed which is missing from FGM's account, in which FFC has circled the house to check that William wasn't on the western side of the garden, at least quickly checked inside the house for him, and met MFC with the news. I think she connected for the first time with AMS after that, they went in the direction of Benaroon Drive, separated, and met again just after FGM got to the road.