Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[Couldbe]

I believe everything fm said from the beginning in her statements to police, police interview, walkthrough, Lia Harris podcasts and inquest were picked apart (esp on this platform) by at least the current investigators on the taskforce and that’s why fm is now considered to be a POI, in fact the only POI in the disappearance of wt.

JMO -The cumulative effect of significant / non-significant points from the 000 call could give rise to angles worth scrutinising, and many of our posts here have done that.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...l/news-story/c3b255297d527406477b6aec02f6fb59

“SD’s next court date is June 30, when Parramatta Local Court in Sydney will assess whether her charges will be dealt with on mental health grounds.”

MOO - With the suspense of waiting for Court Hearing, now just less than a week away, many of us here are hoping the Hearing won’t drag on.

 

[SouthAussie]

JMO -The cumulative effect of significant / non-significant points from the 000 call could give rise to angles worth scrutinising, and many of our posts here have done that.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...l/news-story/c3b255297d527406477b6aec02f6fb59

“SD’s next court date is June 30, when Parramatta Local Court in Sydney will assess whether her charges will be dealt with on mental health grounds.”

MOO - With the suspense of waiting for Court Hearing, now just less than a week away, many of us here are hoping the Hearing won’t drag on.

No matter what happens in any of the upcoming court cases, it doesn't sound as if those outcomes will make any difference to William's case.

In this SMH article (linked below) it is stated that .... "police will not be able to charge anybody over William’s disappearance and presumed death without the physical evidence the search is hoping to unearth."

There have been so many searches now, investigating various POIs, and it still remains that until/unless they find physical evidence there are going to be no charges. Because (imo) there is not enough proof of anyone's direct involvement in William's disappearance.

imo

Police find unknown fabric as heavy rain hampers Tyrrell search

The fabric has been taken away for forensic testing as about 30 police operational support officers are replaced by a new team on Sunday morning.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Chrissy74]

No matter what happens in any of the upcoming court cases, it doesn't sound as if those outcomes will make any difference to William's case.

In this SMH article (linked below) it is stated that .... "police will not be able to charge anybody over William’s disappearance and presumed death without the physical evidence the search is hoping to unearth."

There have been so many searches now, investigating various POIs, and it still remains that until/unless they find physical evidence there are going to be no charges. Because (imo) there is not enough proof of anyone's direct involvement in William's disappearance.

imo

Police find unknown fabric as heavy rain hampers Tyrrell search

The fabric has been taken away for forensic testing as about 30 police operational support officers are replaced by a new team on Sunday morning.

www.smh.com.au

That may be so SouthAussie but let’s not forget it’s only a matter of time before wt sister is old enough to speak her truth about what happened that day. She was there remember. I recall a message she made at the last inquest that said something to the effect of “when I get older I want to be a detective so I can find my brother”.. and I believe she will

 

[SouthAussie]

That may be so SouthAussie but let’s not forget it’s only a matter of time before wt sister is old enough to speak her truth about what happened that day. She was there remember. I recall a message she made at the last inquest that said something to the effect of “when I get older I want to be a detective so I can find my brother”.. and I believe she will

I wouldn't be surprised if, when she turns 18, sister disassociated from this whole matter and went on to live her life elsewhere. Just so she could get out from under the shadow of William's disappearance and discover who she is and what she wants from her life.

She is certainly having a tough childhood, right from the get go. So many pressures.

imo

 

[FromGermany1]

Wouldn't that have required a person to monitor the "bug" 24/7? If it was so dangerous in the house. Then the police could rush over there at the first sign of trouble (did they do that?)

I think the alleged assault is likely due to "problematic behaviour". As in, a pre-teen really pushing some boundaries, or something like that. (No, I am not condoning any assault.)

The magistrate 'sees cases like this every day'. Children are not in imminent danger every day due to secrets some seem to think they may hold.

imo

Surveillance videos also are usually looked at after an accident/a crime happened already and is nevertheless helpful in the (subsequent) clarification of events. Bugging a home maybe similar, so no monitoring 24/7 but the opportunity for evaluation, when something happened.
I thought about, why little L had to tell her teacher about the incident, if the home was bugged. Probably because of the forementioned reason.
I can't explain (for myself) otherwise, why it is known, how many minutes the verbal tirade or the TO took. All MOO.

 

[Chrissy74]

Surveillance videos also are usually looked at after an accident/a crime happened already and is nevertheless helpful in the (subsequent) clarification of events. Bugging a home maybe similar, so no monitoring 24/7 but the opportunity for evaluation, when something happened.
I thought about, why little L had to tell her teacher about the incident, if the home was bugged. Probably because of the forementioned reason.
I can't explain (for myself) otherwise, why it is known, how many minutes the verbal tirade or the TO took. All MOO.

Maybe it was recorded on her iPhone.. new generation thing to do. She may have wanted to back up her claim. Proof it happened.

 

[SouthAussie]

Surveillance videos also are usually looked at after an accident/a crime happened already and is nevertheless helpful in the (subsequent) clarification of events. Bugging a home maybe similar, so no monitoring 24/7 but the opportunity for evaluation, when something happened.
I thought about, why little L had to tell her teacher about the incident, if the home was bugged. Probably because of the forementioned reason.
I can't explain (for myself) otherwise, why it is known, how many minutes the verbal tirade or the TO took. All MOO.

If surveillance was needed in the house to watch out for sister in a dangerous situation (as stated in your original post), I think perhaps the police would have requested that FACS move her ... not just stick surveillance in the house to try to 'protect' her.

Because viewing (secret) surveillance after the fact isn't really going to keep her safe.

imo

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe it was recorded on her iPhone.. new generation thing to do. She may have wanted to back up her claim. Proof it happened.

Probably would not have been in possession of her phone (if she has one), if she was in Time Out.

Electronics are usually the first thing to go when a youngster is in strife with their parents.

It seems that a Time Out would be pretty ineffective if a child could just sit and scroll through their phone during their TO period.

imo

 

[bearbear]

If surveillance was needed in the house to watch out for sister in a dangerous situation (as stated in your original post), I think perhaps the police would have requested that FACS move her ... not just stick surveillance in the house to try to 'protect' her.

Because viewing (secret) surveillance after the fact isn't really going to keep her safe.

imo

could the surveillance on the house not have been to protect the child but to listen to the adults conversations regarding william, especially since ffc was named as a poi? and maybe not listened to 24/7 but checked weekly etc?

 

[SLouTh]

could the surveillance on the house not have been to protect the child but to listen to the adults conversations regarding william, especially since ffc was named as a poi? and maybe not listened to 24/7 but checked weekly etc?

I agree Bear…. I think the alleged assault was an accidental find…. on a recording ….
I suspect that others were just as shocked by what is alleged, as most of us were….
imo

 

[Serenanicole]

If surveillance was needed in the house to watch out for sister in a dangerous situation (as stated in your original post), I think perhaps the police would have requested that FACS move her ... not just stick surveillance in the house to try to 'protect' her.

Because viewing (secret) surveillance after the fact isn't really going to keep her safe.

imo

It is possible the surveillance was arranged after the case was perhaps referred to the crime commission. To obtain information relating to Williams disappearance. This alleged abuse found incidentally. All MOO

 

[SLouTh]

No matter what happens in any of the upcoming court cases, it doesn't sound as if those outcomes will make any difference to William's case.

In this SMH article (linked below) it is stated that .... "police will not be able to charge anybody over William’s disappearance and presumed death without the physical evidence the search is hoping to unearth."

There have been so many searches now, investigating various POIs, and it still remains that until/unless they find physical evidence there are going to be no charges. Because (imo) there is not enough proof of anyone's direct involvement in William's disappearance.

imo

Police find unknown fabric as heavy rain hampers Tyrrell search

The fabric has been taken away for forensic testing as about 30 police operational support officers are replaced by a new team on Sunday morning.

www.smh.com.au

Yes agree, the Police need to find William….for a successful prosecution…

However this news update states a couple of relevant things…. (From 26 Nov, 2021)

The inquest is going to reopen, and the Foster Parents are going to be recalled to the Witness Stand…

Det Chief Super Darren Bennet has said that they will announce if they find William, but he also says Police will not report on any thing relevant to the investigation, if found at the last “big dig“…. that those findings will go to the Coroner, for further investigation….

So it is possible that “something“, (maybe not actually William’s body), has been found, and we just don’t know about it yet….???

We’re very happy with the items we’ve found in terms of their relevance to the investigation, in terms of both eliminating people or proving what happened to William Tyrrell,” he said.

And

‘Numerous items seized’ as detectives provide update on William Tyrrell search

The search for missing boy William Tyrrell on the NSW mid-north coast could be extended by another few weeks after “setbacks”.

7news.com.au

 

[SLouTh]

Hypothetical ….

Who do you think the Coroner will call, and / or recall to give evidence at the next sitting of William’s Inquest? And maybe why??

Edit to add…. Remembering it is an inquest and not a criminal court….

 

[JBowie]

Yes agree, the Police need to find William….for a successful prosecution…

Not necessarily. People have been found guilty of murder when there is no body, but it's a pretty tough job for the prosecution.

Such a trial us underway currently in Sydney regarding the disappearance of Lynn Dawson.

A body definitely makes getting a murder conviction easier, as juries are usually presented with forensic evidence and normally evidence of how the deceased was killed. However, the law states that a jury does not need a body to be convicted of murder, nor does the crown need to prove how the victim died or what caused the death, in order to find beyond reasonable doubt that the accused person murdered the victim.

How the Crown proves guilt beyond reasonable doubt when there is no body nor evidence as to how someone died, is through circumstantial evidence. A circumstantial case is one where several pieces of evidence are presented that do not directly prove the elements of the offence but instead require a jury to infer further facts that would lead to a finding of guilt.

In recent history, there have been numerous high-profile murder trials where people have been convicted on circumstantial evidence without a body. The following are two of the most infamous and controversial [Lindy Chamberlain and Keli Lane].

Edit: Lindy (cold fingers here)

Can someone be convicted of murder without a body? - Streeton Lawyers

Since the Teacher’s Pet podcast was released and Christopher Dawson charged with the murder of Lynn Dawson, everyone is asking whether there is a possibility he will be convicted even though no body has been found. A body definitely makes getting a murder conviction easier, as juries are...

www.streetoncriminallawyers.com.au

So it is possible that “something“, (maybe not actually William’s body), has been found, and we just don’t know about it yet….???

I think had his body been found, even people on Mars would have heard about it.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Hypothetical ….

Who do you think the Coroner will call, and / or recall to give evidence at the next sitting of William’s Inquest? And maybe why??

Edit to add…. Remembering it is an inquest and not a criminal court….

We don’t know there will even be another sitting? She may just deliver her findings

 

[SouthAussie]

It is possible the surveillance was arranged after the case was perhaps referred to the crime commission. To obtain information relating to Williams disappearance. This alleged abuse found incidentally. All MOO

Yes, it is possible. It is just that the post you have referenced is not about that. It is about OP's post theorising that the surveillance was there (if it was there) for sister's protection.

 

[SouthAussie]

(RSBM)

We’re very happy with the items we’ve found in terms of their relevance to the investigation, in terms of both eliminating people or proving what happened to William Tyrrell,” he said.

I think it is important to take the whole context of DCS Bennet's statement. "In terms of both eliminating people OR .... " being part of the statement.

This is a face saving statement. Double talk. imo

It could easily mean ... 'We have eliminated the POI we were reviewing under Coronial Orders. And are handing our new police brief to the Coroner''. That the police haven't proved the 'or'.

imo

 

[SLouTh]

I think it is important to take the whole context of DCS Bennet's statement. "In terms of both eliminating people OR .... " being part of the statement.

This is a face saving statement. Double talk. imo

It could easily mean ... 'We have eliminated the POI we were reviewing under Coronial Orders. And are handing our new police brief to the Coroner''. That the police haven't proved the 'or'.

imo

Yes agree, good point… The OR could also mean we have cleared known CSO and found something related directly to FM as well???

Seriously, who knows at this point?? And who knows if the media reports are even correct, or just a Police Strategy.??
imo

 

[SLouTh]

Not necessarily. People have been found guilty of murder when there is no body, but it's a pretty tough job for the prosecution.

Such a trial us underway currently in Sydney regarding the disappearance of Lynn Dawson.

A body definitely makes getting a murder conviction easier, as juries are usually presented with forensic evidence and normally evidence of how the deceased was killed. However, the law states that a jury does not need a body to be convicted of murder, nor does the crown need to prove how the victim died or what caused the death, in order to find beyond reasonable doubt that the accused person murdered the victim.

How the Crown proves guilt beyond reasonable doubt when there is no body nor evidence as to how someone died, is through circumstantial evidence. A circumstantial case is one where several pieces of evidence are presented that do not directly prove the elements of the offence but instead require a jury to infer further facts that would lead to a finding of guilt.

In recent history, there have been numerous high-profile murder trials where people have been convicted on circumstantial evidence without a body. The following are two of the most infamous and controversial [Lidy Chamberlain and Keli Lane].

Can someone be convicted of murder without a body? - Streeton Lawyers

Since the Teacher’s Pet podcast was released and Christopher Dawson charged with the murder of Lynn Dawson, everyone is asking whether there is a possibility he will be convicted even though no body has been found. A body definitely makes getting a murder conviction easier, as juries are...

www.streetoncriminallawyers.com.au

I think had his body been found, even people on Mars would have heard about it.

Yes I do agree JLZ….. I should have explained my “thinking“ better regarding that statement…. I was thinking that if they could find William, then perhaps he could lead the Police back to an offender…. With possibly some evidence left behind…
Too optimistic I guess????

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Posts have been removed. For clarification purposes, the phrase "speak her truth" simply means to have her say. IOW, it is NOT intended to mean that the truth was not spoken initially.

Move on from that discussion.

Thank you.