Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[Detective Willy]

I wonder what sister had to say about the car.
We often wondered (in the past) if they had been working with a memory expert.


"William’s sister Lindsay spotted the car as she was riding her bike, saying to her foster mother, “who’s that car, mummy?”
The foster mother says she looked up and saw a dark green-grey sedan drive past her mother’s house and into the next-door neighbour’s driveway. She says the car nosed into the driveway before turning around and driving back down the street."

(From The Australian article you linked earler.)

OK I will be more gullible than usual for a moment.

The car really did exist! Williams sister even pointed out this car to FFC and she remembers the car in great detail (some time later) and even remembering that the driver was overweight!

Umm. Hold the phone for a second... You see a suspicious car out the front after your 5 year old daughter has pointed this out to you and you still let a 3 year old boy wander out to where this car was a short time later, unsupervised and alone?

I am not buying this story.

If this changed story that she remembered some time later was true then the FFC was even more negligent than I originally thought.

 

[Chrissy74]

D

OK I will be more gullible than usual for a moment.

The car really did exist! Williams sister even pointed out this car to FFC and she remembers the car in great detail (some time later) and even remembering that the driver was overweight!

Umm. Hold the phone for a second... You see a suspicious car out the front after your 5 year old daughter has pointed this out to you and you still let a 3 year old boy wander out to where this car was a short time later, unsupervised and alone?

I am not buying this story.

If this changed story that she remembered some time later was true then the FFC was even more negligent than I originally thought.

You are so right Detective Willy. every scenario in this case is very disturbing. From the lack of supervision over a 3yo child playing in an unfamiliar unfenced even unsafe environment to explaining that away like it’s not an unusual thing for a parent to do. The checking in of a 3yo child with the adults when playing out of sight. Sending a 3yo child out to a driveway to see if an adults car is coming up the street or in the driveway. Telling a 3yo child to change their own nappy and clean themselves up. Who does that! )Get up and change your child’s nappy clean them up and give them a hug and tell them it’s ok and that you love them) that’s normal behaviour.. How can a 3yo child know their limitations? 3yo they are still a baby. It’s not until they start school that they begin to learn and understand rights from wrongs and everything else. The fp are supposedly well educated well respected individuals so how can they believe their actions or lack of are what’s considered normal. As a mother of 3, all of these excuses and explanations are inexcusable and to hear and read and watch these excuses be brushed over like they’re the norm is gut wrenching. The ff had an obligation to take care of W protect him guide him , that’s what they signed up for and the failed. Miserably. They failed W on so many important levels it’s hard to believe they are happy to replace guilt with justifications

 

[Couldbe]

Ray Hadley: Desperate search for missing boy - 2GB

From the voice of Superintendent Paul Fehon : Fairly early in this podcast, Fehon says that from day 2 they had the search dogs up there (this can serve to remind us that the dogs didn’t arrive on that first day of William’s disappearance, which may have delayed certain critical evidence being collected).

 

[Lemony]

Ray Hadley: Desperate search for missing boy - 2GB

From the voice of Superintendent Paul Fehon : Fairly early in this podcast, Fehon says that from day 2 they had the search dogs up there (this can serve to remind us that the dogs didn’t arrive on that first day of William’s disappearance, which may have delayed certain critical evidence being collected).

There was at least one dog there on the day William went missing.

An expert tracker who was called in to find William Tyrrell just hours after he was first reported missing said the task was 'impossible' by the time he arrived at the scene.

Senior Constable Matthew Gates told an inquest into the disappearance of the three-year-old that he and his police dog Gov did not get to William's foster grandmother's home at Kendall, on the NSW mid-north coast, until two hours after he vanished.

Why the search for William Tyrrell was ‘impossible’ from the start

An expert police tracker who was called in to find William Tyrrell (pictured) just hours after he was first reported missing said the task was 'impossible' by the time he arrived at the scene.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[JLZ]

Ray Hadley: Desperate search for missing boy - 2GB

From the voice of Superintendent Paul Fehon : Fairly early in this podcast, Fehon says that from day 2 they had the search dogs up there (this can serve to remind us that the dogs didn’t arrive on that first day of William’s disappearance, which may have delayed certain critical evidence being collected).

It's hard to hear, but I think he says they had dogs utilizing their tracking skills from day one, and then from day two not only the usual searching dogs but also . . . diver? cadaver? dogs too. It's interesting to listen to such an early report, [edit: correction, four] days after the disappearance.

 

[deugirtni]

It seems that Fehon himself was quoted to say the dogs found no scent/trace of William at all.. although a couple of publications reported something like 'no scent past the driveway'.. but... where did that info come from?
=============
Police have launched a special strike force to help find three-year-old missing boy William Tyrell on the fifth day of the frantic search as it's revealed even police sniffer dogs can't find a trace or scent of the toddler.

Police baffled that sniffer dogs can't find a trace of missing boy
==============
Hundreds of SES, RFS and local volunteers scoured thick bushland on Tuesday and searched nearby dams and waterways for a second time, but there has been no trace of the boy.

Sniffer dogs and cadaver dogs found no scent in the yard, fuelling fears he may have been abducted.

Missing William Tyrell could not have survived alone in bush: police
==============
Sniffer dogs have also been involved but have not picked up any trace of William.

Search for missing toddler to scale back - 9News
==============
Sniffer dogs have failed to pick up any scent of the three-year-old William Tyrell on the NSW mid-north coast, fuelling fears he may not have wandered away from home.
....
Neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs had been able to pick up any sign of the boy, Fehon said.

William Tyrell search: police say sniffer dogs have found no trace of boy
==============
Police Strike Force Rosann has been established as sniffer dogs fail to pick up any scent of William Tyrell, five days after he went missing on the NSW mid north coast.
....
Superintendent Paul Fehon says neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs have been able to pick up any sign of the boy, fuelling fears he may not have wandered away from home.

UPDATE: STRIKE FORCE SET UP AS SNIFFER DOGS FAIL TO PICK UP SCENT OF WILLIAM TYRELL | NBN News
==============
POLICE confirmed sniffer dogs brought in to search around Kendall, near Port Macquarie, for William Tyrell had found no scent trail of the three-year-old.
....
Police sniffer dogs have not been able to determine any sign of the boy.

Fears deepen for missing NSW toddler - 9News
==============
Police divers were brought in to search nearby dams and waterways, while sniffer dogs also helped comb the area.

The dogs did not pick up any scent trails to suggest William wandered off.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/w...e/news-story/9a64aae508a274864409ab59679af808
==============
Police have said they are baffled there is no sign of missing three-year-old William Tyrell, with reports that police dogs deployed have not picked up a trace of his scent at all.

http://www..au/news/search-for-william-day-6/
==============

 

[SLouTh]

Ray Hadley: Desperate search for missing boy - 2GB

From the voice of Superintendent Paul Fehon : Fairly early in this podcast, Fehon says that from day 2 they had the search dogs up there (this can serve to remind us that the dogs didn’t arrive on that first day of William’s disappearance, which may have delayed certain critical evidence being collected).

I am wondering if “dogs” pleural…. Is the point here??
There was definitely one dog the first day… as Lemony has posted, but more than one dog on day 2 …
Just a thought ….

 

[Couldbe]

There was at least one dog there on the day William went missing.

An expert tracker who was called in to find William Tyrrell just hours after he was first reported missing said the task was 'impossible' by the time he arrived at the scene.

Senior Constable Matthew Gates told an inquest into the disappearance of the three-year-old that he and his police dog Gov did not get to William's foster grandmother's home at Kendall, on the NSW mid-north coast, until two hours after he vanished.

Why the search for William Tyrrell was ‘impossible’ from the start

An expert police tracker who was called in to find William Tyrrell (pictured) just hours after he was first reported missing said the task was 'impossible' by the time he arrived at the scene.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Extracted from your post Lemony : "Senior Constable Matthew Gates told an inquest into the disappearance of the three-year-old that he and his police dog Gov did not get to William's foster grandmother's home at Kendall, on the NSW mid-north coast, until two hours after he vanished."

JMO - Arriving 2 hours after William vanished doesn't seem to be a very long time to have elapsed before the dog commenced searching! Does anyone know if there is a reason for the 2 hour delay causing a problem?

I am wondering if the Media Article should have reported it as 'two days' / and not 'two hours'?
With the dog(s) arriving on day 2, then that delay could have enabled contamination of any useful evidence. MOO

 

[Couldbe]

..... and what to make of this extract stating that the truck driver stopped to help?

The vital minutes which could answer what REALLY happened to William

“She drove down the road looking for him before briefly speaking to a truck driver who stopped to help then returned home.”

 

[SLouTh]

Extracted from your post Lemony : "Senior Constable Matthew Gates told an inquest into the disappearance of the three-year-old that he and his police dog Gov did not get to William's foster grandmother's home at Kendall, on the NSW mid-north coast, until two hours after he vanished."

JMO - Arriving 2 hours after William vanished doesn't seem to be a very long time to have elapsed before the dog commenced searching! Does anyone know if there is a reason for the 2 hour delay causing a problem?

I am wondering if the Media Article should have reported it as 'two days' / and not 'two hours'?
With the dog(s) arriving on day 2, then that delay could have enabled contamination of any useful evidence. MOO

There is a big discussion about PD Guv, the first dog on scene, in one of Caroline Overington’s podcasts… they also talk about the differing types of dogs etc … sniffer versus cadaver etc

Maybe someone can recall which episode???

It is believed that too many searchers had trampled over the yard by the time the Gates and Gov arrived … and due to the Police Command Post that was set up at 48 Benaroon….

EDIT to add: PD GUV a was brought to the scene the first day, by his handler.
Missing William Tyrrell, Chapter 2, Page 31. By Caroline Overington.

 

[Doesitmakesense]

Extracted from your post Lemony : "Senior Constable Matthew Gates told an inquest into the disappearance of the three-year-old that he and his police dog Gov did not get to William's foster grandmother's home at Kendall, on the NSW mid-north coast, until two hours after he vanished."

JMO - Arriving 2 hours after William vanished doesn't seem to be a very long time to have elapsed before the dog commenced searching! Does anyone know if there is a reason for the 2 hour delay causing a problem?

I am wondering if the Media Article should have reported it as 'two days' / and not 'two hours'?
With the dog(s) arriving on day 2, then that delay could have enabled contamination of any useful evidence. MOO

Two days would make more sense to me, than not finding anything after 2hrs imo

 

[SLouTh]

..... and what to make of this extract stating that the truck driver stopped to help?

The vital minutes which could answer what REALLY happened to William

“She drove down the road looking for him before briefly speaking to a truck driver who stopped to help then returned home.”

Honestly, I think it is bad reporting …. I think FM stopped…. Not the truck …
This is the only media article that contains this info IIRC??
All IMO

 

[Couldbe]

Honestly, I think it is bad reporting …. I think FM stopped…. Not the truck …
This is the only media article that contains this info IIRC??
All IMO

Thank you SlouTH .... you are most likely right.

JMO - the truck driver most likely would have wondered why FFC was driving along with her head out of the Mazda window.

 

[Lemony]

Two days would make more sense to me, than not finding anything after 2hrs imo

William was only 3 years old, PolAir was up on the first day so it would make sense to bring in as many resources as they could ASAP, that would include dogs IMO.

 

[Lemony]

There is a big discussion about PD Guv, the first dog on scene, in one of Caroline Overington’s podcasts… they also talk about the differing types of dogs etc … sniffer versus cadaver etc

Maybe someone can recall which episode???

It is believed that too many searchers had trampled over the yard by the time the Gates and Gov arrived … and due to the Police Command Post that was set up at 48 Benaroon….

EDIT to add: PD GUV a was brought to the scene the first day, by his handler.
Missing William Tyrrell, Chapter 2, Page 31. By Caroline Overington.

Yes, it was definitely the first day.

From the DM article above...
'Upon my arrival on the 12th of September, 2014, I assessed the area and found that tracking was impossible,' Gates told the inquest on Wednesday, The Daily Telegraph reports.

 

[Marg944]

The FFFC Section 14 application is due to be heard in Court tomorrow. I have been re-reading about the charges that have been made, which are assault, stalking and intimidation charges.

The media recently reported that a Police informant would be called as a witness to her other charges, of giving false or misleading information to the NSW Crime Commission. It was unclear what a "Police informant" could be...... but I think this snippet from a recent ABC news article spells out that the informant is a Police officer? IMHO

"However, a police informant involved with the case attended and sat in the public gallery."

William Tyrrell's foster mother to plead not guilty to misleading crime commission

The 56-year-old is accused of giving false evidence during a hearing into the disappearance of William Tyrrell from his foster grandmother's home in 2014.

www.abc.net.au

 

[JBowie]

There has probably been no video released because their identities are protected. imo

Yet the videos of the walkthoughs with police were released (with faces pixelated), and there's the Channel 9 interview (with faces in shadows).

 

[drsleuth]

D

You are so right Detective Willy. every scenario in this case is very disturbing. From the lack of supervision over a 3yo child playing in an unfamiliar unfenced even unsafe environment to explaining that away like it’s not an unusual thing for a parent to do. The checking in of a 3yo child with the adults when playing out of sight. Sending a 3yo child out to a driveway to see if an adults car is coming up the street or in the driveway. Telling a 3yo child to change their own nappy and clean themselves up. Who does that! )Get up and change your child’s nappy clean them up and give them a hug and tell them it’s ok and that you love them) that’s normal behaviour.. How can a 3yo child know their limitations? 3yo they are still a baby. It’s not until they start school that they begin to learn and understand rights from wrongs and everything else. The fp are supposedly well educated well respected individuals so how can they believe their actions or lack of are what’s considered normal. As a mother of 3, all of these excuses and explanations are inexcusable and to hear and read and watch these excuses be brushed over like they’re the norm is gut wrenching. The ff had an obligation to take care of W protect him guide him , that’s what they signed up for and the failed. Miserably. They failed W on so many important levels it’s hard to believe they are happy to replace guilt with justifications

BBM : I don't believe that William was made to change his own nappy, I believe the MFC was saying he needed to get up & his pull ups needed to be changed ( by him ) & than, as you have said, they than could have a hug IMO.

Bombshell documents lift lid on William Tyrrell mystery

Explosive new documents from the William Tyrrell case reveal details about the toddler's life with his foster family, his violent behaviour and an accident days before he vanished.

www.dailymail.co.uk

'He always wakes up and he says, oh, you know I've had an accident, you know, he wets his... because he still wears ... pull ups.

'But for some reason he always manages to fill them. And I said are you wet and all that sort of stuff and I said, okay well then you need to go , get up first and you need to get changed first okay and then we know and we can have a cuddle.
'And then he wants to watch a show ... and then we watched .... Bananas in Pyjamas'.

 

[drsleuth]

There was at least one dog there on the day William went missing.

An expert tracker who was called in to find William Tyrrell just hours after he was first reported missing said the task was 'impossible' by the time he arrived at the scene.

Senior Constable Matthew Gates told an inquest into the disappearance of the three-year-old that he and his police dog Gov did not get to William's foster grandmother's home at Kendall, on the NSW mid-north coast, until two hours after he vanished.

Why the search for William Tyrrell was ‘impossible’ from the start

An expert police tracker who was called in to find William Tyrrell (pictured) just hours after he was first reported missing said the task was 'impossible' by the time he arrived at the scene.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Correct, PD Gov was certainly there on day 1

 

[bearbear]

OK I will be more gullible than usual for a moment.

The car really did exist! Williams sister even pointed out this car to FFC and she remembers the car in great detail (some time later) and even remembering that the driver was overweight!

Umm. Hold the phone for a second... You see a suspicious car out the front after your 5 year old daughter has pointed this out to you and you still let a 3 year old boy wander out to where this car was a short time later, unsupervised and alone?

I am not buying this story.

If this changed story that she remembered some time later was true then the FFC was even more negligent than I originally thought.

maybe there was no car with an overweight man eyeballing her?