Madeleine McCann: German Prisoner Identified as Suspect #31

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

Taskforce88

Former Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2017
Messages
1,583
Reaction score
4,851
 
Last edited by a moderator:
They say “no news is good news” but It feels like no news is not enough evidence to get a conviction or CB is is not the right bad guy.

HCW is not even sharing anything with the media. Does this means he has the answers he wanted to get from this exposure or he doesn’t think he’s going to get the answers.

The whole thing has gone from and explosive start to an extinguished match. I hope HCW either charges or drops it soon. Looking at the thread daily with no updates is like an uneventful Groundhog Day!
 
Hi Richard.

I understand that you quoted from Grime's profile and you could, also, have quoted from Mark Harrison's report where he claims that Grime took Eddie to a US bodyfarm in Tennessee.

Interestingly, Grime doesn't say where, in America, this training of Eddie's is supposed to have taken place.

But there were three FOI requests sent to South Yorkshire police about Eddie's alleged training in America, two by me.

I first asked whether it was true that Eddie had been taken to America for 'enhanced' training on human remains. The answer was that information they hold "would tend to confirm" that part of my request. They had a personal development review Grime himself wrote in which he claimed he took Eddie to America for 'enhanced' training.

My follow-up question was to ask whether a document from America, described as "pending", had ever been received. The answer was plain and unequivocal. A report was not received and there is no information held.

The separate question asked more generally what training Eddie received to prepare him for his duties as a police dog. The answer was that Eddie's training was in accordance with standard acpo guidelines (in England and on dead pigs). There was no reference to 'enhanced' training in America.

Contemporaneous press reports from late December 2005 state that in the new year following (the period referred to in my answer) Grime went to America with Keela so that she could 'assist the FBI in two murder inquires'. They said nothing about Eddie. ***

Should have added, there, that I understand the actual purpose of the visit was so that Grime could discuss Keela with the Americans. Grime didn't go to America with dogs.

Grime's profile, deliberately undated, states that, at the time Grime wrote it, Eddie was aged 7.

Meaning that, if he took Eddie to America for 'enhanced' training in 2006, the dog would have been aged about 5 or 6 and just 18 months from finishing service as a police dog. Why would anyone take a dog that age and that close to finishing service as a police dog for 'enhanced' training in ways, then as now, illegal in England? And for just 18 months of service at an 'enhanced' level?

ETA: Here is the article about the proposed UK body farm:

www.nature.com

EXCLUSIVE: UK to open first ‘body farm’ for forensic research

Sites that allow the study of human remains have long existed in the United States and have started to appear recently in other countries.
www.nature.com www.nature.com
 
Last edited:
enquirer6 said:
Hi Richard.

I understand that you quoted from Grime's profile and you could, also, have quoted from Mark Harrison's report where he claims that Grime took Eddie to a US bodyfarm in Tennessee.

Interestingly, Grime doesn't say where, in America, this training of Eddie's is supposed to have taken place.

But there were three FOI requests sent to South Yorkshire police about Eddie's alleged training in America, two by me.

I first asked whether it was true that Eddie had been taken to America for 'enhanced' training on human remains. The answer was that information they hold "would tend to confirm" that part of my request. They had a personal development review Grime himself wrote in which he claimed he took Eddie to America for 'enhanced' training.

My follow-up question was to ask whether a document from America, described as "pending", had ever been received. The answer was plain and unequivocal. A report was not received and there is no information held.

The separate question asked more generally what training Eddie received to prepare him for his duties as a police dog. The answer was that Eddie's training was in accordance with standard acpo guidelines (in England and on dead pigs). There was no reference to 'enhanced' training in America.

Contemporaneous press reports from late December 2005 state that in the new year following (the period referred to in my answer) Grime went to America with Keela so that she could 'assist the FBI in two murder inquires'. They said nothing about Eddie. ***

Should have added, there, that I understand the actual purpose of the visit was so that Grime could discuss Keela with the Americans. Grime didn't go to America with dogs.

Grime's profile, deliberately undated, states that, at the time Grime wrote it, Eddie was aged 7.

Meaning that, if he took Eddie to America for 'enhanced' training in 2006, the dog would have been aged about 5 or 6 and just 18 months from finishing service as a police dog. Why would anyone take a dog that age and that close to finishing service as a police dog for 'enhanced' training in ways, then as now, illegal in England? And for just 18 months of service at an 'enhanced' level?

ETA: Here is the article about the proposed UK body farm:

www.nature.com

EXCLUSIVE: UK to open first ‘body farm’ for forensic research

Sites that allow the study of human remains have long existed in the United States and have started to appear recently in other countries.
www.nature.com www.nature.com
Click to expand...
This article is just a couple of months old. Still not opened, yet, seemingly.

But still on the agenda:

Down on the body farm: The gruesome, but vital forensic facility coming to the UK

Just like language, decomposition is dependent on location. This is why researchers are keen to start studying the dialect of taphonomy here in the UK.
www.sciencefocus.com www.sciencefocus.com
 
@ enquirer6 , its all a moot point now , according to the Germans they have the man responsible for the murder of Madeleine.

​

 
enquirer6 said:
Hi Richard.

I understand that you quoted from Grime's profile and you could, also, have quoted from Mark Harrison's report where he claims that Grime took Eddie to a US bodyfarm in Tennessee.

Interestingly, Grime doesn't say where, in America, this training of Eddie's is supposed to have taken place.

But there were three FOI requests sent to South Yorkshire police about Eddie's alleged training in America, two by me.

I first asked whether it was true that Eddie had been taken to America for 'enhanced' training on human remains. The answer was that information they hold "would tend to confirm" that part of my request. They had a personal development review Grime himself wrote in which he claimed he took Eddie to America for 'enhanced' training.

My follow-up question was to ask whether a document from America, described as "pending", had ever been received. The answer was plain and unequivocal. A report was not received and there is no information held.

The separate question asked more generally what training Eddie received to prepare him for his duties as a police dog. The answer was that Eddie's training was in accordance with standard acpo guidelines (in England and on dead pigs). There was no reference to 'enhanced' training in America.

Contemporaneous press reports from late December 2005 state that in the new year following (the period referred to in my answer) Grime went to America with Keela so that she could 'assist the FBI in two murder inquires'. They said nothing about Eddie. ***

Should have added, there, that I understand the actual purpose of the visit was so that Grime could discuss Keela with the Americans. Grime didn't go to America with dogs.

Grime's profile, deliberately undated, states that, at the time Grime wrote it, Eddie was aged 7.

Meaning that, if he took Eddie to America for 'enhanced' training in 2006, the dog would have been aged about 5 or 6 and just 18 months from finishing service as a police dog. Why would anyone take a dog that age and that close to finishing service as a police dog for 'enhanced' training in ways, then as now, illegal in England? And for just 18 months of service at an 'enhanced' level?

ETA: Here is the article about the proposed UK body farm:

www.nature.com

EXCLUSIVE: UK to open first ‘body farm’ for forensic research

Sites that allow the study of human remains have long existed in the United States and have started to appear recently in other countries.
www.nature.com www.nature.com
Click to expand...
This is quite interesting actually.
So according to wiki, there are 7 facilities in the US. The first facility was opened in Knoxville, Tennessee, in 1987.
The second one was opened in North Carolina in 2006 and has been used for cadaver dog training.

Body farm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
I also doubt CB will ever be charged - for countless historical reasons - in relation to MM.

<modsnip>

Just to recap, didn't HCW earlier this year say that while CB was temporarily on the 'back burner', he/the BKA in the meantime had 'concrete' evidence to link him/charge him with a number of other unrelated very serious crimes? And that those charges were imminent?

So yes, entirely fair to question the long silence and I don't understand why anyone with an objective eye would have a problem with that.

Will CB ever be charged with any of the charges he's allegedly in the frame for? I really wonder at this stage.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
enquirer6 said:
This article is just a couple of months old. Still not opened, yet, seemingly.

But still on the agenda:

Down on the body farm: The gruesome, but vital forensic facility coming to the UK

Just like language, decomposition is dependent on location. This is why researchers are keen to start studying the dialect of taphonomy here in the UK.
www.sciencefocus.com www.sciencefocus.com
Click to expand...
From the following link, a part of Martin Grime's profile, there are a number of points to note:

First is an absence. No date. That is not an oversight. Grime claims to be 'in post' with his police force.

By not dating his profile, he leaves open the technical possibility that when he wrote it, he was still employed by South Yorkshire Police. Of course, it is a criminal offence to imitate a police officer if you are not one.

Then, while Grime says that he was 'in post at the Operational Support Services', he doesn't say Operational Support Services where. It so happens that South Yorkshire Police does have an operational support services.

Grime claims to have been a special adviser to the US department of justice.

Grime was a police constable with South Yorkshire Police who, yes, had additional duties as a dog handler.

For our American friends, a police constable is the lowest rank of serving officer in the UK police force.





Here, a photograph of the Venerable Saint Martin of Grime, avoiding committing the crime of imitating a police officer when he was not one, by not wearing his police officer uniform while at work on the ground at Praia da Luz:

www.ladbible.com

Footage Shows Sniffer Dogs 'Pick Up Scent Of Blood' In Madeleine McCann Holiday Apartment

The footage has appeared in the new Netflix documentary about the case
www.ladbible.com www.ladbible.com
 
Last edited:
enquirer6 said:
From the following link, a part of Martin Grime's profile, there are a number of points to note:

First is an absence. No date. That is not an oversight. Grime claims to be 'in post' with his police force.
[...]
Click to expand...
I'm not sure why this has become important, but Grimes has a LinkedIn profile which gives dates of his various employment positions, including his work in the USA.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/martin-grime-9724a78
 
Loobyloo said:
I'm not sure why this has become important, but Grimes has a LinkedIn profile which gives dates of his various employment positions, including his work in the USA.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/martin-grime-9724a78
Click to expand...
"Become" important?

It was (or should have been!) important, pretty much from the moment Grime set to work.

If you look at the original schedule of searches Mark Harrison, part of whose job was supposed to have been to determine the schedule of searches, first drew up, you will find he made no mention of:

The McCanns' rented villa, unsurprisingly, as Madeleine never lived there.

The McCanns' rented hire car, unsurprisingly, as the McCanns hired it 3 weeks after Madeleine vanished

Clothing. Unsurprisingly, in part because Grime never had, at least a cadaver dog, trained to inspect clothing

In part because no clothing was seized until fully 3 months after the crime

In part because uncorroborated cadaver dog alerts are inadmissible as 'evidence' in English courts

In part because, even if a slight trace of Madeleine's blood had been found on any clothing, that would scarcely have been incriminating, with innocent explanations of how it got there:

Madeleine, sat on Mummy's knee or Daddy's knee.

Has a nose bleed or other minor abrasion

Blood transfers to clothing.

Hardly incriminating.

Of course, any trace of blood would have had to be minute, since blood visible to the naked human eye wouldn't have required a dog to find it.

Took a look at Grime's modus operandi in the Bianca Jones case, and you will find it exactly repeated from Praia da Luz.

caselaw.findlaw.com

FindLaw's Court of Appeals of Michigan case and opinions.

FindLaw's searchable database of Court of Appeals of Michigan decisions since
caselaw.findlaw.com caselaw.findlaw.com

According to Grime, on December 4, 2011, he took his dogs to an enclosed warehouse that contained 31 vehicles. Grime was told that Bianca was in one of the vehicles at the time of the carjacking, but was not told which vehicle was involved. Morse alerted Grime to the presence of the odor of decomposition in the back seat and trunk of a silver Grand Marquis. Keela later screened the car and did not alert Grime to the presence of human blood.

Grime testified that, after the vehicle screening, he took the dogs to an administrative building to screen the items removed from Dungey's car. Grime did not know where the objects were located in the building, and the objects had been placed in a room filled with “all sorts of things.” Morse alerted Grime to the odor of decomposition in Bianca's car seat and a bag containing Bianca's blanket. Grime later took the dogs to Dungey's house. Morse alerted him to the odor of decomposition in a room that contained bunk beds and a closet without a door.

There you have the uncanny parallels with Praia da Luz. The line-up of vehicles, much longer in Detroit than in Praia da Luz. The repeat of the pattern of stuff tested, in one spot, taken to a different spot, and tested a second time. In Praia da Luz, it was clothing, sniffed by the dogs in the McCanns' rented villa, bundled into bog-standard cardboard boxes (in disregard of principles of cross-contamination of a death scent) and taken to a gym in Lagos, there to be spread out on the floor for both dogs to trample over and one dog to bark and pick certain items up in his mouth.

Immediately following that debacle, everything was returned to Kate and Gerry, without ever being forensically examined.

Yet, from that debacle, came a canard poor Kate lives with to the present day of 'death scent on her clothes', accompanied by fevered speculation of 'how it got there' ....
 
Last edited:
As this all took place some 14 years ago and appears not to be part of current police thinking, I consider that it is no longer of any relevance.
 
Davieson said:
As this all took place some 14 years ago and appears not to be part of current police thinking, I consider that it is of no relevance.
Click to expand...
<modsnip>Grime came much closer than he should, ever, have been allowed to come to landing the McCanns in jail for the crimes (seemingly) of Christian Brueckner against Madleine?

And got paid 1,000 euros a day (with all his other expenses on top) for doing so?

Here is the schedule of searches Mark Harrison first proposed:

Re Visiting Previously Searched Areas.

In considering the two scenarios that Madeleine McCann has been murdered and her body disposed of by a person on foot or in a vehicle, I have reflected on the areas within zone 1 that have been previously searched or subject to forensic examination.

Mark Warner Creche at Praia Da Luz.

This is the location of the last confirmed sighting by a person independent of family members of Madeleine McCann. Although this location was within the original search area it may well benefit from a further search using enhanced detecting methods for human remains. This will depend on the size of any outside grounds and concealed areas inside the building.

McCann's Apartment.

The apartment in which the McCann's had stayed may present further
opportunities to search. The use of a specialist EVRD (Enhanced Victim
Recovery Dog) and CSI dog (human blood detecting dog) could potentially indicate on whether Madeline's blood is in the property or the scent of a dead body is present. In relation to the dead body scent if such a scent is indicated by the EVRD and no body is located it may suggest that a body has been in the property but removed. This search process could be repeated in all the apartments that were occupied by the friends holidaying with the McCann's.
Murat's House and Garden.

The property has been forensically examined to recover any surface trace evidence however the house and gardens may benefit from a fully invasive specialist search to preclude the presence of Madeleine McCann.
A method previously employed on similar cases has been to use the below assets.
Deploy the EVRD to search the house and garden to ensure Madeleine McCann's remains are not present. The dog may also indicate if a body has been stored in the recent past and then moved off the property, though this is not evidential merely intelligence.
Deploy the CSI dog to search the house to locate any human blood.
This will act in support of the forensic examination already completed.
An inhibiting factor will be on areas where Luminol has been used.

More notable for what isn't there than what is.

No reference to:

The McCanns' rented villa, unsurprisingly, as Madeleine never lived there

The McCanns' rented hire car, unsurprisingly, as they hired it 3 weeks after Madeleine vanished.

Clothing. Unsurprisingly, In part because no clothing was seized until 3 months after the crime. In part because uncorroborated cadaver dog alerts are inadmissible as evidence in English courts. In part because Grime never had, at least a cadaver dog, trained to inspect clothing. In part because even if a minute trace of Madeleine's blood had been found on any clothing (none was!) that would scarcely have been incriminating, with innocent explanations of who it got there: Madeleine sat on Mummy's knee or Daddy's knee. Has a nose bleed or other minor abrasion. Blood transfers to clothing.

Hardly incriminating.

Then Harrison stood to attention and took orders from Encarnacidio to expand the schedule of searches. Encarnadidio, fluent in English, who gave the McCanns feedback (of sorts) about the investigation as it progressed.

Who bent Encarnacidio's ear?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Davieson said:
It's all in the past.McCanns are not in the frame, so no, no longer relevant.
In my opinion.
Click to expand...
<modsnip - bickering>

Are you aware that he used the PdL video of the 'inspection' of vehicles to promote himself at Haut de la Garenne?

Bungled Jersey child abuse probe branded a '£20million shambles'

A special MoS investigation reveals that the main witness had a history of psychotic fantasy and alcoholism, and uncovers a catalogue of extravagance and incompetence.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

'Grime made a presentation, showing him [Harper] a video of the dog finding the "scent of death" in Kate and Gerry McCann's car,' the detective said.


False trails: Eddie the sniffer dog with handler Martin Grime
'They were still formal suspects and the case had got worldwide publicity. It seemed to get Lenny very excited. I think Grime kind of bewitched him.'
 
Last edited by a moderator:
enquirer6 said:
"Become" important?

It was (or should have been!) important, pretty much from the moment Grime set to work.
[...]
Click to expand...
You miss my point. I was querying why your 'First is an absence. No date. That is not an oversight. Grime claims to be 'in post' with his police force' had become an important issue to address at this point in the investigation. The dates of Grimes' employment strike me as irrelevant (but if for any reason they *are* relevant, they are in any case available on the LinkedIn page I posted).
 
Loobyloo said:
You miss my point. I was querying why your 'First is an absence. No date. That is not an oversight. Grime claims to be 'in post' with his police force' had become an important issue to address at this point in the investigation. The dates of Grimes' employment strike me as irrelevant (but if for any reason they *are* relevant, they are in any case available on the LinkedIn page I posted).
Click to expand...
For some reason the link you gave earlier doesn't work, at least for me.

These, however, are the facts.

Grime rolled up freelance in Praia da Luz having been (effectively) sacked by South Yorkshire Police.

It is true that SYP confirmed in one of their FOIs that Grime (as the answer put it) 'left the service' in August 2007, but rolled up in Praia da Luz with his dogs in July. The most plausible explanation is that Grime finished operational service with SYP in August, but took annual leave leading up to the termination of his contract of employment, and worked in Praia da Luz whilst still on annual leave. That would have made Grime, technically, still an employee of the force, but effectively on a 'busman's holiday' (doing what he did for a living while on annual leave from his employer).

South Yorkshire Police would have deployed two handlers with two dogs, just as the Met deployed dogs Tito and Muzzy with PC's Richards and Brake in the second enquiry, and just as South Yorkshire Police, when Grime was working for them, would deploy him, either alone with Eddie or with another dog (Frankie) and another handler (Ellis).

Grime avoided committing the crime of imitating a police officer when he was not one by not wearing his police officer uniform in PdL. In the second enquiry, we saw serving police officers from the Met. working on the ground at PdL, wearing their police officer uniforms. More narrowly, Grime might have avoided committing the same crime by not dating his profile, leaving open the possibility that when he wrote it, he was, as he claims, a serving police officer.

A picture of Grime in Praia da Luz, avoiding committing the crime of imitating a police officer by not wearing his police officer uniform:

www.ladbible.com

Footage Shows Sniffer Dogs 'Pick Up Scent Of Blood' In Madeleine McCann Holiday Apartment

The footage has appeared in the new Netflix documentary about the case
www.ladbible.com www.ladbible.com

ETA: On the guff, in the picture above, about 'the scent of blood', John Lowe's forensic report contains just one use of the word 'blood', to say that a curtain, reacted to by Keela and tested for it, showed no trace.
 
Last edited:
Loobyloo said:
Nor for me, strangely. I'll try again:
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/martin-grime-9724a78
Click to expand...

Police Dog Training Instructor​

Uk Police​

Jan 1984 - Aug 200723 years 8 months

Technically correct, and Grime washed up in PdL in July.

But as I pointed out above, Grime was on leave leading up to retirement from SYP when he worked in Praia da Luz, and spent his leave in Portugal as a part of the investigation into Madeleine's disappearance.

The pointers to Grime's freelance status being that:

He handled two dogs. SYP would have deployed two handlers with two dogs, just as the Met did in the second enquiry and just as SYP did with Grime when he was working for them

He never wore his police officer uniform, unlike serving police officers in the Met in the second enquiry, seen working in Portugal wearing their uniforms.

Grime never returned to SYP after finishing at PdL. south Yorkshire Police would certainly have expected a debrief on operations.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 164 more.
Total: 3,453 (members: 165, guests: 3,288)

Online statistics

Members online
165
Guests online
3,288
Total visitors
3,453
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,171
Messages
17,964,587
Members
228,712
Latest member
Lover305
Back
Top