CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19

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Regarding Barry's mental state, AFAIK, only JS questioned it.

Jack Kay, Frank D'Angelo, Mary Schectman, other friends, family, nobody at Apotex, and none of the News media ever mentioned that Barry was experiencing any unusual symptoms or behaviors that would be signs of deteriorating mental faculties.

True Barry was eccentric, but that was consistent throughout his life.
 
Hopefully in 2023 they will get their guy.

JK 3 years after the murders: (starting around 1:50)

No suspects have been publicly identified. “I don't think we'll ever know what happened,” Mr. Kay said.

 
No suspects have been publicly identified. “I don't think we'll ever know what happened,” Mr. Kay said.


I guess lots can change between 6 months after the murders and 3 years after the murders? imo.

=======================

published June 29, 2018 by The Wall Street Journal:

“I don’t think we’ll ever know what happened,” Mr. Kay said.

=======================

published December 4, 2020 on youtube by Toronto Sun's Joe Warmington:

around 1:44
JW: Now the question is, where's this investigation at, and it's very active, the Toronto police are on it, in fact they now say that they've got persons of interest. And because of that, the family friend and obviously coworker, Jack Kay, is very confident that this could be leading to somewhere.
2:03
JK: Sir, I'm certain they have persons of interest.
JW: Do you think this year will, '21, will see an arrest in it?
JK: Hopefully in 2021 we will. You know what? In most murder cases around the world, just follow the money.
JW: What do you think, uh, when you say that in this case, I mean this was a big money player?
JK: Nope, just, just, just follow the money, and uhhh, you might come up with... something.
JW: So you think this was a money play, as opposed to something personal, or lawsuits, or something business related? Or more money?
JK: You know what my friend, I worked with Barry for 35 years. None of it makes any sense to me.


 
JK: You know what my friend, I worked with Barry for 35 years. None of it makes any sense to me.
Likewise, this last sentence doesn't make any sense to me. (Follow the) money or not money, what is it? We know, that the suspects in question all don't actually need any more money.
 
Likewise, this last sentence doesn't make any sense to me. (Follow the) money or not money, what is it? We know, that the suspects in question all don't actually need any more money.
They may not need money, but they may have deeply resented the victims. Perhaps we need to look more deeply into the family dynamic. Because the staging of bodies is still very particular: does it have a meaning that could enlighten us on the profile of the culprit or culprits?
 
Likewise, this last sentence doesn't make any sense to me. (Follow the) money or not money, what is it? We know, that the suspects in question all don't actually need any more money.
I think it's impossible for one to say another doesn't actually need any more money, since 'need' is very subjective. I have found throughout my lifetime that the more people have, the more they seem to want/'need', jmo. What if things were about to change somehow (ie business expansion plans that weren't endorsed by everyone, charities being added to the beneficiaries list, etc)? What if there were things going on in the background which we don't understand, which required great sums of money, or promises had been made of cash accessibility, but yet Barry wasn't agreeing? What if others who may have felt somewhat entitled to make decisions without having actual authority to make decisions, didn't agree with the way B did business, and wanted to 'protect' existing assets? There are potentially sooo many things to not understand or make sense of. imo.
 
IMO, it appears to be a cold case. There have been no official updates in months! It's almost like everyone has forgotten about the Sherman murders. (except us on here of course)
Either cold, or too hot to handle. A lot of politics involved, as well as Big Pharma. The true answer may never come out in our generation.
 
=================

published June 29, 2018 by The Wall Street Journal:

“I don’t think we’ll ever know what happened,” Mr. Kay said.

=======================

published December 4, 2020 on youtube by Toronto Sun's Joe Warmington:

around 1:44
JW: Now the question is, where's this investigation at, and it's very active, the Toronto police are on it, in fact they now say that they've got persons of interest. And because of that, the family friend and obviously coworker, Jack Kay, is very confident that this could be leading to somewhere.
2:03
JK: Sir, I'm certain they have persons of interest.
JW: Do you think this year will, '21, will see an arrest in it?
JK: Hopefully in 2021 we will. You know what? In most murder cases around the world, just follow the money.
JW: What do you think, uh, when you say that in this case, I mean this was a big money player?
JK: Nope, just, just, just follow the money, and uhhh, you might come up with... something.
JW: So you think this was a money play, as opposed to something personal, or lawsuits, or something business related? Or more money?
JK: You know what my friend, I worked with Barry for 35 years. None of it makes any sense to me.


This quote is also found on page 242 of KD's book which means that it was said sometime before October 2019 which is when the book was published. Whether this book is its earliest source cannot be said with certainty.
 
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I think it's impossible for one to say another doesn't actually need any more money, since 'need' is very subjective. I have found throughout my lifetime that the more people have, the more they seem to want/'need', jmo. What if things were about to change somehow (ie business expansion plans that weren't endorsed by everyone, charities being added to the beneficiaries list, etc)? What if there were things going on in the background which we don't understand, which required great sums of money, or promises had been made of cash accessibility, but yet Barry wasn't agreeing? What if others who may have felt somewhat entitled to make decisions without having actual authority to make decisions, didn't agree with the way B did business, and wanted to 'protect' existing assets? There are potentially sooo many things to not understand or make sense of. imo.

Great post. Although greed is an uncontrollable urge which doesn't seem to fit any of our POI's that we know about, if one looks up the complex psychology of people who feel entitled, it describes a person close to BS and HS to a tee. I can see why Kevin D. had this person in his radar for many reasons, and certainly after seeing his email to family about BH being incompetent. The level above a narcissist diagnosis is a psychopath. I am not accusing anyone based on this, because there are many unknowns and many psychopaths who live amongst us.

"Because personality disorders are characterized by altered views of oneself and others, it is not surprising that those with personality disorders often experience this. People with a narcissistic personality disorder or other forms of personality disorder generally perceive themselves as being superior to others, have a skewed view of the value of other people’s worth, and often don’t like to follow the rules. They often exhibit an elevated sense of self-worth or exaggerated self-esteem which can fuel this to insatiable levels. "




 
Great post. Although greed is an uncontrollable urge which doesn't seem to fit any of our POI's that we know about, if one looks up the complex psychology of people who feel entitled, it describes a person close to BS and HS to a tee. I can see why Kevin D. had this person in his radar for many reasons, and certainly after seeing his email to family about BH being incompetent. The level above a narcissist diagnosis is a psychopath. I am not accusing anyone based on this, because there are many unknowns and many psychopaths who live amongst us.

"Because personality disorders are characterized by altered views of oneself and others, it is not surprising that those with personality disorders often experience this. People with a narcissistic personality disorder or other forms of personality disorder generally perceive themselves as being superior to others, have a skewed view of the value of other people’s worth, and often don’t like to follow the rules. They often exhibit an elevated sense of self-worth or exaggerated self-esteem which can fuel this to insatiable levels. "




Do you think that KD is mostly referring to JS as the focus of his book?
 
re post very lengthy article.
By Kevin Donovan
Feb. 20, 2021

''In an interview, Jonathon said while he, one of his father’s estate trustees, initially wanted the estate documents kept secret he has changed his mind and is now hopeful the Star is successful in unsealing them, as they contain information he wants the newspaper to see. “My M.O. was f--- Donovan, I don’t want him prying into my life ... my own personal view has changed ... there is nothing in there that is worth keeping secret.”)

A few months passed and then, a year and a day after the murders, Kay was sitting in his office at Apotex in the afternoon when Jonathon walked in with Apotex president Jeff Watson, an ex-Canadian Football League offensive lineman hired years before by Kay. Jonathon had explained to me in an interview that by late 2018 he had a list of grievances against Kay.''


''According to Jonathon, Kay was “micromanaging” Apotex. Also, Kay was insisting on continuing Barry’s plan to invest $50 million to expand a Florida drug factory Barry had purchased not long before he died. Jonathon disliked Kay’s regular lunches with Frank D’Angelo, a Toronto entrepreneur Barry had backed for more than a decade. It also perturbed Jonathon that Kay had moved into his father’s office (after the police tape came down in early 2018). For decades, the two men had adjacent offices with a connecting door always left open, and Sherman assistant Mauro recalls they would “communicate” by yelling good-naturedly back and forth about the business, life and religion. In the corridor between their two offices were scales, test tubes and an incubator — where Barry did his own drug formulations despite having hundreds of scientists on staff. Kay, Sherman friends say, was “the brother Barry never had.”


''Insiders say Kay was never invited to trustee meetings after he was fired. He later resigned as trustee.

The stumbling block in the family was Alexandra. A nurse by training, with no business experience, she said she became concerned a year after the murders with decisions her brother was making. Decisions, she said, which did not fall in line with the “values and principles” of their late father''
 
If we reverse the discussion from instead of trying to prove someone was the mastermind of the murders, what would be the approach if we were trying to prove that same person innocent?

Many of us are focused on one person as the mastermind. If for a moment it is said he is guilty, how can we exonerate him?

Did he have a motive? No would be the best answer.
Did he have the means to hire assassins'? No would be the best answer.
Did he have a relevant alibi, if you hire someone, you do not need to be present. But any alibi is always good.

Is there a record of transactions with the assassins? There would have to be communications and a transfer of funds between the mastermind and the assassins. No records or proof of communications or money transfer. NOT GUILTY!

With out communications and money transfer, he walks.


The key appears to be the arrest of the assassins, anybody see the Nightwalker recently?
 
If we reverse the discussion from instead of trying to prove someone was the mastermind of the murders, what would be the approach if we were trying to prove that same person innocent?

Many of us are focused on one person as the mastermind. If for a moment it is said he is guilty, how can we exonerate him?

Did he have a motive? No would be the best answer.
Did he have the means to hire assassins'? No would be the best answer.
Did he have a relevant alibi, if you hire someone, you do not need to be present. But any alibi is always good.

Is there a record of transactions with the assassins? There would have to be communications and a transfer of funds between the mastermind and the assassins. No records or proof of communications or money transfer. NOT GUILTY!

With out communications and money transfer, he walks.


The key appears to be the arrest of the assassins, anybody see the Nightwalker recently?
What about the trip to Japan and Bitcoin?
 
What about the trip to Japan and Bitcoin?
Who, i wonder did JS think have a grudge against his parents, a business or personal connection?
rbbm.
''I also ask Jonathon about his whereabouts the week of his parents’ deaths, particularly the Wednesday evening. In our email exchange in December, Jonathon had shared a photo he took of his hand and a note with the time code of 7:17 p.m. Wednesday, December 13, 2017, and the location of his home visible on the smartphone photo. Police have said the Shermans were killed that evening, likely between 9 p.m. and midnight.

Jonathon says he snapped the photo that evening to have a record of a “seed code” for his cryptocurrency account and that the hand in the photo is his. He says he also has a photo on his phone taken the next morning at 8:30 a.m., and the location is at his home.

I suggest to him that a photo of his hand taken at 7:17 p.m. at his family compound outside Toronto does not necessarily mean he could not have gone to his parents’ house later that night. Jonathon agrees, but says he has always assumed that whoever killed his parents “hired someone else.”

"In the police search warrant documents recently made public, Jonathon is quoted by a detective saying during his interview soon after the killings that there were people who had a “grudge” against his parents and a “reason to hurt them.” Who those people are is blacked out by a judge’s order. He says he has given his thoughts on his suspicions to detectives.


“I don’t know anyone who can plan a murder in three weeks, but I can tell you I was not involved,” Jonathon says.''
 
If we reverse the discussion from instead of trying to prove someone was the mastermind of the murders, what would be the approach if we were trying to prove that same person innocent?

Many of us are focused on one person as the mastermind. If for a moment it is said he is guilty, how can we exonerate him?

Did he have a motive? No would be the best answer.
Did he have the means to hire assassins'? No would be the best answer.
Did he have a relevant alibi, if you hire someone, you do not need to be present. But any alibi is always good.

Is there a record of transactions with the assassins? There would have to be communications and a transfer of funds between the mastermind and the assassins. No records or proof of communications or money transfer. NOT GUILTY!

With out communications and money transfer, he walks.


The key appears to be the arrest of the assassins, anybody see the Nightwalker recently?
On pages 91 and 92 of KD's book it says, "They (LE) were also seeking from someone a series of telephone and banking records, and, intriguingly, information from two airline loyalty programs....Police were interested in someone's flights and bank records."
 
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