Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #153 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav

Here is the old audio in a loop:
http://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_male_voice_loop.mp3

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

Thread #99 Thread #100 Thread #101 Thread #102 Thread #103 Thread #104 Thread #105 Thread #106 Thread #107 Thread #108 Thread #109 Thread #110 Thread #111 Thread #112 Thread #113 Thread #114 Thread #115 Thread #116 Thread #117 Thread #118 Thread #119 Thread #120 Thread #121 Thread #122 Thread #123 Thread #124 Thread #125 Thread #126 Thread #127 Thread #128 Thread #129 Thread #130 Thread #131 Thread #132 Thread #133 Thread #134 Thread #135 Thread #136 Thread #137 Thread #138 Thread #139 Thread #140 Thread #141 Thread #142 Thread #143 Thread #144 Thread #145 Thread #146 Thread #147 Thread #148 Thread #149 Thread #150 Thread #151 Thread #152

Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
Link to Media Maps & Timelines #2 *No Discussion*

IMAGE Discussion Thread

Scanner Thread

Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Theorizing based on some known fact sourced from MSM or LE is fine, but speculation not based on known fact is not allowed.

Also, a few reminders from TOS:

It is WS preferred policy to use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just private message a Mod or Admin for clarification.

Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

Before you post something make sure what you are stating is FACT as we know it from MSM, LE or another approved Websleuths source.

Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons are not allowed.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

Please keep the conversation about THIS CASE.

Generalized discussing about unusual unstaged scenes is a fascinating topic, but it's not specific to THIS case. Many, many posts were removed. Only a few discussed that, and the rest were about totally different cases. Please keep the focus in this thread on this specific case.

I would, however, read a thread about unusual unstaged scenes, so if you'd like, start one in

General Information & Discussion

Discussion about all kinds of crime solving tools, organizations, and more!

www.websleuths.com

or start a chat in PMs, where as many as 20 members may participate. PMs are unmoderated and private. Only those on the PM will see the messages.

THANK YOU for helping us keep this thread about Abby & Liberty.

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

After further review, sleuthing of RMA’s alias will be allowed. The information can be found here, at Law & Crime, which is an approved source.

Be mindful of the rules of this site, as always. If you’re unsure of a source or validity of information you’ve discovered, ask one of the staff. We’re happy to help!

Thanks,
Mad

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

STOP!!! READ THIS!!!

From the Etiquette & Information page linked in my signature:

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing known victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, or others who have not been officially designated by law enforcement or in mainstream media as a Person of Interest or suspect is not allowed (i.e. Sleuthing out this type of information, and publicly posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public is not allowed and such posts will be removed, along with any posts that encourage such sleuthing).

THAT INCLUDES THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA. STOP, STOP, STOP DISCUSSING THE SUSPECT'S FAMILY!
STOP talking about the family members of this suspect. Zero tolerance. Timeouts HAVE BEEN and WILL be issued.

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

STOP sleuthing and discussing family members! PERIOD. Particularly Facebook pages. RA’s address is off limits too. Publishing it at this point could put his family in danger and they are VICTIMS.

If violations continue to increase, so will the length of resulting time outs!

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

RA's wife is NOT a POI/suspect. Posts that trash her will be removed and members who persist in speculating about her involvement or making derogatory comments about her will be banned from this discussion.

From: The Rules: Etiquette & Information

The "victim friendly" rule extends to family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, or others who have not been officially designated by law enforcement or in mainstream media as a Person of Interest or suspect is not allowed (i.e. Sleuthing out this type of information, and publicly posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public is not allowed and such posts will be removed, along with any posts that encourage such sleuthing).

This does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media. Members may reasonably discuss what is said in MSM by them or about them, but do not make random accusations, insinuations, suggest their involvement, trash, bash or attack them, or speculate negatively about them.

 

[CocoChanel]

ADMIN NOTE:

Please STOP vilifying the people of Delphi.
We do not know many if any facts yet, and so bashing them as a whole is mis-placed and offensive. It does not align with our victim-friendly principles.

And while we are at it, ANY FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE SUSPECT ARE OFF LIMITS.

Thank you for upholding Websleuths’ reputation as the gold standard of true crime discussion boards.

 

[Sillybilly]

Good point - is it something of value for sleuthers to perhaps look at other unsolved cases and their associated suspect sketches?

I will flag this post to moderation myself, to see if that would be permissible here or should be elsewhere.

This discussion is massive enough on it's own and to start bringing in speculation in relation to other possible cases only causes confusion throughout the discussion. We'd like to avoid bringing information about other cases that might POSSIBLY end up having a connection.

IF another case is to be speculated upon in relation to RA's possible involvement, and there is a WS thread open on it, that discussion should take place in the specific 'other' thread.

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

Several posts have been removed over the course of this evening. As a reminder, there has only been one arrest in this case. Although several people have been named POIs, they’ve not been charged with crimes in this case. General discussion of specifics involving these persons of interests should be contained to their particular threads.

Thanks,
Mad

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE:

PLEASE don't make me close the thread for cleanup. STOP responding to posts that violate TOS. If you do, then we have to cleanup yours, and anybody who responds to yours, too. Just report and move on.

Also, REDDIT is not allowed. I'M now cleaning multiple reddit RUMORS. STOP responding to them, stop asking for PMs, stop stop stop. Just report and move on.

Thanks,
Knitty

 

[YaYa_521]

Continue here.

 

[Elley Mae]

I want to know what was hanging/pixelated on his leg.

 

[chocolatechance]

Replying to Sundog's question about DNA. I'm on AncestryDNA. My parents are not. But because I have several cousins who are, I know which parts of my DNA came from which parent. It's unreal. It can basically construct my parents' DNA based on other matches in the database. And it's pretty precise. It noted my uncle, 1st cousins, 1st cousins once removed, and a whole bunch of 3rd-5th cousins. If crime scene DNA was a match to mine, they would know what level and could figure out what side of the family from my cousins. Totally amazing, and somewhat scary.

 

[MassGuy]

How does familial DNA work if only one member of the family is in the database (for example with 23&me) but not the other family member who is the suspect, and LE doesn't have the suspect's DNA from the crime scene? Wouldn't both family members have to be in the database and, if so, I assume that Cousin Tammy (fictitious name) AND RA have to both have used 23&me and both be in 23&me database?

So, there are several DNA services, but the most popular are Ancestry and 23. Law enforcement doesn't have access to those databases.

What they do have access to, is GED match. That's a site where you can upload your DNA that was processed by one of the other services. If you opt in, law enforcement can access that DNA for use in cases.

So they have the DNA of a suspect, they upload it to GED Match, and then a genealogist uses that to find a relative (many times distant), and build a family tree to narrow down who the suspect might be.

Sometimes it can really only be one person, and other times it'll come back to siblings or something.

Law enforcement will then further investigate, many times surreptitiously gathering DNA.

If they get a match, they will get a warrant for a cheek swab, either before or after arrest.

 

[Inthedetails]

I tend to think RA and KAK are connected through their online activities. However, one thing that doesn't sway me is their proximity to each other. Online predators don't have to live near each other to "share" their interests. So the fact that KAK and RA live near each other doesn't seem like a particularly strong link.

Unless, they were both interested in in-person activities not just looking at online images or online manipulation of the victims. In that case, I do think a link is entirely possible and KAK could indeed be a facilitator for other men to catch glimpses of girls in person or do worse, like RA did.

jmojmo speculation only

 

[Yemelyan]

@Sundog I'm not sure I can bring your question/post over from the previous thread, but you asked how can familial DNA be done if only one family member is in the database and there is no DNA from a crime scene?

If I understand your question correctly, in the scenario you gave, it cannot be done. Genetic genealogy relies on having an unknown crime scene sample to compare to family genetic genealogy databases.

Genetic genealogists look for areas of inherited similarity in the DNA of their samples that indicates likely familial relationships. Then they build out family trees based on public records to try to figure out who could have contributed the unknown sample from the crime. In some cases they land on a family of related men but need further information to figure out who in that cohort could have realistically left the sample.

One wrinkle in this type of genetic research is that unknown or incorrect paternity and/or adoption that results in surnames that do not match the DNA can make it a very difficult process to determine which family tree the unknown sample might fit into.

All MOO.

 

[shushu]

I'm assuming his wife knew he volunteered himself as a witness and placed himself very near to the crime scene. This makes me wonder how often he spent his afternoons outdoors or hiking? Otherwise, how did he explain going there, looking similar to the sketch, and sounding like BG. There were a lot of coincidences overlooked if this recent report is factual. Very strange.

 

[Sundog]

So, there are several DNA services, but the most popular are Ancestry and 23. Law enforcement doesn't have access to those databases.

What they do have access to, is GED match. That's a site where you can upload your DNA that was processed by one of the other services. If you opt in, law enforcement can access that DNA for use in cases.

So they have the DNA of a suspect, they upload it to GED Match, and then a genealogist uses that to find a relative (many times distant), and build a family tree to narrow down who the suspect might be.

Sometimes it can really only be one person, and other times it'll come back to siblings or something.

Law enforcement will then further investigate, many times surreptitiously gathering DNA.

If they get a match, they will get a warrant for a cheek swab, either before or after arrest.

What would be the reasons for why a person would want to opt in to the GED database? Would they have access to additional information beyond what Ancestry and 23 would provide in terms of their DNA results? Just wondering what the motivation would be.