Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[Boxer]

Doug carter went straight to the scene of the flora fire on hearing the news of the arrest. Could there be a connaction with flora and delphi that the public dont know about ?

Interesting. Can you tell me where to look for that info?

 

[Fargo]

The question was how would he know to be ready for the victims if he didn't know ahead of time they would be there, as if killers don't walk about with the weapons they will use in hopes of finding a victim. There is no evidence that KAK knew they would be on the trail.
There is zero indication RA knew the victims, catfished them or had something to "revenge". They were sexually motivated murders.

Who was that other killer who buried kill kits in advance? I can't remember his name.

It could be that RA stalked that area numerous times hoping to find an isolated female victim and had planned an assault/murder in advance. Maybe for months or even years. Maybe even he didn't know it would come together that particular day or with those exact victims. Something made him confident he could control not just one, but two, compliant juvenile females. It seems to me that whoever committed these murders had a very high tolerance for risk. Maybe the high risk was even a necessary component for him. If it turns out RA really did commit this crime I hope someone profiles him someday because he appears (as of now) to be a rather unlikely murderer. My opinion only.

 

[Dotta]

Who was that other killer who buried kill kits in advance? I can't remember his name.

Israel Keyes??

 

[AngTxGal]

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but SA is just rumored, correct? What if he murdered them because they were taking photos of him and maybe laughing which he took as making fun of him and attacked them because of that? I feel like people are mentioning sexually motivated as a matter of fact so I’m just thinking outside that box. MOO

The facts
I listened to the recorded voices between two men on the day of the search- girls undergarments were found under the bridge
KK is linked to CSAM

Podcast discussions about the crime scene describe it having large amounts of blood, I believe this is Implied from the Ron Logan search affidavit.

Delphi murders: Search warrant reveals new details in homicide investigation

Stunning new documents describe the scene where two young girls were murdered in Delphi, Indiana, five years ago.

www.fox32chicago.com

My inferences
Large spilling of blood- that isn‘t strangulation nor is it blunt force trauma from a stick or rock found at the scene. Bloody scene implies a weapon brought in by the murderer
LE has not said the undergarments were linked to the girls, but the article does mention items taken from the scene

So my thinking is…What are the motives of a Monster who goes to a bridge where teens hang out on a day when they are out of school and brings a weapon with him?
Monster is with these two girls alone, and orders them down the hill, walks them into the woods, kills these two girls in a bloody manner, leaves some kind of signature, takes items from the scene
Monster leaves the scene and lives with his family a mile away, works visible to the public in a community of less than 3000 people for five years.
Does this sound like a hot head that suddenly got angry and snapped and killed these two girls? No, to me it sounds like a monster who has honed his skills over time

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but SA is just rumored, correct? What if he murdered them because they were taking photos of him and maybe laughing which he took as making fun of him and attacked them because of that? I feel like people are mentioning sexually motivated as a matter of fact so I’m just thinking outside that box. MOO

Sexually motivated murder is based on the level of violence, removal of the victim's clothing, taking the underwear, and possibly the way the bodies were posed. SA is not necessary, and not ruled out, but the murder is what he may use for sexual arousal/gratification.
There are no photos of him on LG's phone, just the short video of him in the distance, and some recording of his voice which doesn't seem to fit with them taking photos and laughing at him.
This type of crime has been mentally rehearsed/fantasized about, it was not suggested to him. His looking for victims was part of the process which also indicates sexual motivation.

 

[Marzipan]

RA isn't any different than other opportunistic killers who disappear girls and women, who find victims by walking trails, looking for joggers early in the morning, etc.

I’ve thought many times over the years of one of the first posts I read when I started following at the 2-year mark. It was one of our WS verified something or others who said when it’s solved it will be someone we never heard of and he will be a serial killer.
I think KK is connected and it remains to be seen if RA is a serial killer but we definitely have a “someone we never heard of” accused now.

 

[minazoe]

This guy is a hard core perv. I still think someone else was there for the picture angle. If you ever looked at KAK's FB, you would notice his photography is very good, I work in the photography industry and the photos are clean and have an editorial quality, so I can see KAK going to take photo's and video as part of the deal.

If he's the lone perp then I think he was stalking the girls..wonder if he had off work that day at the Pharmacy, it would be good to know his schedule. He spoke to a girl in the park right? but we don't know what he said..was he asking her if she had seen A&L? or did he strike up a convo..? this detail would really help to understand what was going on that day.

so he's in the park with a bunch of stuff in his jacket...what is it that actually put him there?

direct communication via A_S account
stalking via SM
direct physical stalking due to online relationship or obsession
paid for the whereabouts of the girls though KAK
commiserated with KAK to kill these girls for visual media
went to the park with 3 people to sexually abuse and kill the girls for sexual purpose and visual media
went to the park alone looking for a random victim
went to the park alone with no actual intentions but was black out drunk
went to the park alone to meet Libby as A_S and wasn't expecting another child to be there so felt he had to kill them
lured the girls in some other way, kidnapped them and killed them

we will find out. mOO

 

[Mellowmelly]

Interesting. Can you tell me where to look for that info?

I don't know the exact minute mark in the video but I think it's close to the end. Doug himself says he won't and sat across from the scene. I just thought it was interesting.

 

[gizmobtj]

First let me thank you for all of the civics lessons! You have me waxing nostalgic for my junior year in high school.

I would like to see the probable cause affidavit released due to insatiable curiosity, but it is difficult to argue that the public has a compelling need to see it immediately. It will be public eventually; of that there is no doubt.

I don't know what the reason is for sealing the affidavit, but I can think of a few legitimate reasons.

First of all, it will be very difficult to seat a jury for this case. This is basically the crime of the century in Indiana. Releasing the PCA right now would lead to even even more news coverage and would taint the jury pool even further. It is highly likely that all of the publicity surrounding this case will lead to a change of venue, but perhaps the prosecution is hoping to avoid that.

Second, the PCA may contain the names of people who have provided incriminating information against RA, and even if those names are redacted, it is possible that their identities would be easy enough to figure out based on the nature of the information provided. The prosecutors may wish to protect those witnesses from being harassed by the media and by citizen-sleuths.

Third, LE has stated that several signatures were present at the crime scene. There may be information about those signatures in the PCA, and that information might connect RA to other murders that are still being investigated. RA seems to have the motivations of a serial killer, and he would be an extreme outlier if he started his career with a double murder at age 45.

In short, sealing the PCA was probably motivated by a desire to prevent the media from wreaking havoc with the adjudication of this case or other cases.

You're welcome and I agree with your point there may not be a compelling public interest reason to release all of the PC.

That's an intriguing point about the signatures, especially if the crime was committed in concert with someone else who is not KAK and the only PC they have relates to the signatures.

Another thing I could imagine is that RA was just such a sharp change in direction that they just don't know how much they don't know.

One interesting thing about the media point is how on one hand they want the media to not taint the jury pool or the investigation, yet they also want the media to drive more tips. That's a tough needle to thread

 

[AngTxGal]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed for no link to many statements in that post>

- Feb 13, 2017 Abby and Libby have contact with the KK profile, this KK is a collector and dealer in CSAM. They go to the bridge, take a picture and post it on social media, They meet a monster who kills them
- June 2017 KK as a photographer goes to Vegas
- Aug 2020- KK gives recorded statement with Det Vido ISP, arrest with no bond, 30 charges listed involving CSAM

- Aug 19 2022 KK is taken out of jail with LE, reports say related to Delphi murder case
- Aug 2022 LE searches the Wabash river near Peru, Indiana for days, believed related to KK and the Delphi murders, KK is described as in negotiations with prosecutors

Search of Wabash River in Peru may be connected to Kegan Kline

PERU, Ind. (WISH) — Indiana State Police on Tuesday were searching the Wabash River in Peru, and it may be connected to anthony_shots suspect Kegan Kline. The Murder Sheet podcast, a News 8 newsgathering partner, shared photos showing divers in the Wabash River near the Nickel Plate bridges for...

www.wishtv.com

- Oct 15 or so 2022 RA‘s home is searched, Oct 25 RA is arrested for the double murder of Abby and Libby. Oct 28 The public is made aware of arrest

To the public the case seems to have sped up all the sudden, and honed in on someone that was not on anyone’s radar- and did so very quickly.
What prompted what seems an out of the blue look closely at RA? Not even the community of Delphi seemed to see him as sus

 

[gizmobtj]

Perhaps they're hiding the PC because it's thin? I just don't think they would risk jeopardizing a murder trial.

I agree. One way to do it, though, is to charge on something thin and, then, amend the charging information with more details, just like they would with a superseding indictment if they had indicted him. One thing that probably given people a little more assurance in this situation, indicting a ham sandwich aside, would have been if they had used a regular or an investigative grand jury ... but, as always, there are a myriad of reasons, at times, to not take that route.

I understand the competing tensions here, and they are part of our system, but I am just a firm believer that a defendant's rights are protected by information being public and that apprpsch usually serves the best interest of justice. As unpopular as it is in some quarters, I'd rather see a million guilty men go free than one innocent person be convicted.

 

[Yuletide]

<modsnip>
- Feb 13, 2017 Abby and Libby have contact with the KK profile, this KK is a collector and dealer in CSAM. They go to the bridge, take a picture and post it on social media, They meet a monster who kills them
- June 2017 KK as a photographer goes to Vegas
- Aug 2020- KK gives recorded statement with Det Vido ISP, arrest with no bond, 30 charges listed involving CSAM

- Aug 19 2022 KK is taken out of jail with LE, reports say related to Delphi murder case
- Aug 2022 LE searches the Wabash river near Peru, Indiana for days, believed related to KK and the Delphi murders, KK is described as in negotiations with prosecutors

Search of Wabash River in Peru may be connected to Kegan Kline

PERU, Ind. (WISH) — Indiana State Police on Tuesday were searching the Wabash River in Peru, and it may be connected to anthony_shots suspect Kegan Kline. The Murder Sheet podcast, a News 8 newsgathering partner, shared photos showing divers in the Wabash River near the Nickel Plate bridges for...

www.wishtv.com

- Oct 15 or so 2022 RA‘s home is searched, Oct 25 RA is arrested for the double murder of Abby and Libby. Oct 28 The public is made aware of arrest

To the public the case seems to have sped up all the sudden, and honed in on someone that was not on anyone’s radar- and did so very quickly.
What prompted what seems an out of the blue look closely at RA? Not even the community of Delphi seemed to see him as sus

Yes. Something or someone pointed LE in RA’s direction. Whatever they found during that search led to the arrest. If it was a someone that pointed LE that way, I hope they receive the reward money if he is found guilty

 

[Charlot123]

.Just hit me.

For years, we were discussing five signatures. Ives mentioned signatures. They form in the process of killings, right? You don't wake up one day, decide to kill two people and leave signatures. You have to be a serial killer, right? If it is your first time, maybe you leave one, but five?

Or, maybe someone else in Delphi is a killer. Who can prevent a killer from burying a "clue" in someone's backyard when that person is away, then calling the police with a tip on that guy?

Or maybe someone not only posed, but indeed, staged the scene to look as the act of a serial killer?

And if it is RA who staged, posed, left signatures, the police should better find other murdered by him.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

Agreed. I don't think people realize sealed documents are not sealed to the parties in the case, including counsel. Once defense counsel is hired or appointed, defense counsel will surely go line by line with the defendant. If the defense believes anything in the affidavit is inaccurate such that it no longer provides probable cause that the defendant committed the crime alleged, that is something that can be challenged.

I am surprised there's really this outcry that the public deserves to read this document before defense counsel. At the end of the day, one person is charged with a crime and that person has rights whether we like it or not.

Your point is well made. We the public are not entitled to this information above following the proper procedure. Following the rules to ensure a fair trial process protects the accused, sure, but it also protects the families of the victims. They have to get this right.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

I've been reading multiple threads here on WS, including the Ashley Bush case (absolutely horrifying) & even the two defendants in the Ashley Bush case have attorneys who are commenting (well, really not commenting or not returning media calls).

I'm just totally floored & astounded that RA has not had an attorney assigned even though he apparently indicated he would get one on his own. This is such a high-profile case, I think it would be in his best interest as well as the court's best interest to assign him an attorney, even temporarily, who could be going through the info from day one, informing him of his possible next steps, etc. If/when RA hires his own attorney, the court-appointed one could then cede to the new one. MOO.

I am assuming that could be legally done. (I could be totally wrong & would welcome clarification on the law regarding this.) If so, why, why, why hasn't it been done for a high-profile case where emotions will be running high for the entire time? If RA is guilty, I don't want him to walk away on a technicality of not having had proper representation, especially at the beginning.

The fact that he doesn't yet have an attorney just blows my mind.

MOO.

He has the right to decline representation. I believe that the state can only appoint him one if he is unable to financially procure one himself.

 

[gizmobtj]

I’m going to guess not much, if anything, will be unsealed/released after the hearing.

If this is the case, I wholeheartedly support this decision, as what matters most is the successful prosecution of the perp(s) responsible for killing Abby & Abby. I hope that nothing happens that could compromise this.

Assuming that not releasing information helps with successful prosecution of the preperatrator assumes that they have the right perpetrator and assumes that more information will not lead to strong tips ...

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Who was that other killer who buried kill kits in advance? I can't remember his name.

It could be that RA stalked that area numerous times hoping to find an isolated female victim and had planned an assault/murder in advance. Maybe for months or even years. Maybe even he didn't know it would come together that particular day or with those exact victims. Something made him confident he could control not just one, but two, compliant juvenile females. It seems to me that whoever committed these murders had a very high tolerance for risk. Maybe the high risk was even a necessary component for him. If it turns out RA really did commit this crime I hope someone profiles him someday because he appears (as of now) to be a rather unlikely murderer. My opinion only.

Israel Keyes

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I’ve thought many times over the years of one of the first posts I read when I started following at the 2-year mark. It was one of our WS verified something or others who said when it’s solved it will be someone we never heard of and he will be a serial killer.
I think KK is connected and it remains to be seen if RA is a serial killer but we definitely have a “someone we never heard of” accused now.

Also said many times, when it's solved it will be KAK and/or TK and one of them was BG.
Now I see the acceptance that RA is BG, but some don't think he found the victim's on his own and/or he had some input from KAK on who he should kill. To me, it looks like a theory that is still trying to fit KAK into the murder. Part of RA's MO and fantasy would have been the trips to scout out locations, to watch and wait for the right circumstances.
MOO

 

[AngTxGal]

I agree. One way to do it, though, is to charge on something thin and, then, amend the charging information with more details, just like they would with a superseding indictment if they had indicted him. One thing that probably given people a little more assurance in this situation, indicting a ham sandwich aside, would have been if they had used a regular or an investigative grand jury ... but, as always, there are a myriad of reasons, at times, to not take that route.

I understand the competing tensions here, and they are part of our system, but I am just a firm believer that a defendant's rights are protected by information being public and that apprpsch usually serves the best interest of justice. As unpopular as it is in some quarters, I'd rather see a million guilty men go free than one innocent person be convicted.

The charges are double murder and No bond. RA is the only person ever arrested for the Delphi murders that took place five years ago. I’m thinking the evidence is rock solid.

It is possible there are other victims, some could be minors, or he is loosely linked to crimes in other cities with others- yet they don’t have the evidence to arrest those others.

I don’t see how sealing the PCA is not justice if it clearly lays out due process, it is backed by the local LE, ISP, and FBI and would have to be backed by the DA and signed by a judge.
This arrest doesn’t give the Ick feeling of a rush to judgment due to a crime that has a community up in arms- they’ve been patient and the missing puzzle piece was just found.

 

[FromGermany1]

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but SA is just rumored, correct? What if he murdered them because they were taking photos of him and maybe laughing which he took as making fun of him and attacked them because of that? I feel like people are mentioning sexually motivated as a matter of fact so I’m just thinking outside that box. MOO

HIS misstep was to enter the bridge at all, he did it with intention. He needed no silly reaction by two teenagers on the end of the bridge to get triggered. He was already in killing mode. IMO