Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #156

[Caylee Advocate]

IMO, I dont think he was ever formally interviewed.
Slid right through the cracks even after admitting he was there that day and LE never called him in or went to his home to question him.
JMO

I wonder if LE just isn't giving out the true information about what was found during the river search? Not accusing a cover-up from investigators, maybe just keeping results of search close to their vest?? If that information were to be released right now it might hurt the continuing investigation. JMO.

 

[Gardenista]

I searched both attorneys on My Case. I only searched 1000 cases for each of them - back to 2015. Baldwin is WAY more experienced with 11 murder trials and an untold number of serious felonies. Rozzi has 1 previous murder case that is hasn't gone to trial yet and a gazillion criminal misdemeanor cases.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[BabaVanga]

Did they definitely find any DNA? If they did and they suspected the killer was local I’m surprised they didn’t ask for all men to submit DNA. The town wasn’t that big right? I remember watching a documentary about this case in England years ago and that’s exactly what they did. Would’ve been cheaper than spending 5 weeks searching a river imo Murder Police Have Asked Every Man In This Village To Take A DNA Test

 

[Charlot123]

Did they definitely find any DNA? If they did and they suspected the killer was local I’m surprised they didn’t ask for all men to submit DNA. The town wasn’t that big right? I remember watching a documentary about this case in England years ago and that’s exactly what they did. Would’ve been cheaper than spending 5 weeks searching a river imo Murder Police Have Asked Every Man In This Village To Take A DNA Test

This is why I think there was no DNA, or it was somehow corrupted.

They really didn't need to ask all men of Delphi for DNA (remember, they didn't know "how local" he was). But let's say, they had DNA. And RA is a local from Mexico, Miami county. I don't know his ancestry, but he looks like a regular NW European. Even if only one parent is from this ethnicity, the Parabon might have had their job cut for them, as descendants of NW Europeans are the most studied ethnic group in the US. Given how many third cousins live around, there should have been some DNA in Gedmatch.

So i don't think he left a lot. Other options: BG left DNA, but processed it somehow so there was nothing to collect. Possible.

Even more likely, the CS represented a DNA mix. And the locals have similar DNA; if they haven't moved out of IN for two centuries, they might be a somewhat closed group. Separating mixed DNAs, essentially, from one village, is hard, and the technology was just developing in 2017. It is better now.

If there was a special DNA (left where it should not be expected), it would mean a lot, but then, the bodies staying overnight and elements might have played the role in making it "a bad sample".

Old cases are being solved because twenty years ago, the perpetrators didn't know about DNA potential, and were uncautious. Now they know, too. Now we won't be finding that much DNA.

JMO, in Delphi case, it could be a long time of painstakingly separating DNAs in a mixed sample, comparing them, separating again... it could take a lot of time.

 

[schooling]

If they had a smoking gun like dna they wouldn't be buying time to keep building their case. They would have confidently presented it as there was no other way for that dna to reach that remote area.

 

[Charlot123]

Or, they perceived him as being an attention-seeker of some sort who had nothing to do with the case and just blew him off. I'm sure they had their fair share of those.

I think he was viewed as being on the right side of the law. From the beginning, they had so many molesters, pedophiles, rapists and simply unsavory types to go through, no one thought of a helpful pharmacy technician whose only legal problem was occasional speeding.

 

[gregjrichards]

Did they definitely find any DNA? If they did and they suspected the killer was local I’m surprised they didn’t ask for all men to submit DNA. The town wasn’t that big right? I remember watching a documentary about this case in England years ago and that’s exactly what they did. Would’ve been cheaper than spending 5 weeks searching a river imo Murder Police Have Asked Every Man In This Village To Take A DNA Test

Hi Welcome to the forum. Thank you for joining and for posting in Abbey and Libby’s case thread. I’m also Scottish.

The law related to DNA sample collection when investigating a crime is a much stricter in Indiana and in the U.S than it is in the UK. People who are arrested in Indiana for a felony crime were not legally required to provide a DNA sample so that the sample could be submitted to the DNA database until it became law in the State in January 2018, almost a year after the murders of Abbey and Libby. It would be very difficult to get consent from all the men in the area to willingly provide DNA samples when there is no indication that any of them have any involvement in a murder case. Unfortunately there is a massive backlog of DNA samples waiting to be tested for serious offences in Indiana and in States across the U.S.

In recent years Law enforcement have been turning to genealogy websites to see if they can find family members who have DNA profiles related to samples collected in crime scenes. This has been useful in helping to find perpetrators involved in serious crimes who have no prior arrests or DNA samples taken by law enforcement

 

[schooling]

I'm not going to dive into rumors but there were already whispers locally that he was in the video. At least in the last few years.

I suspect
1) LE decided to take a step back after trying to follow leads and tips in the KK case.
2) RA's name comes up and they start verifying his story again
3) Things Don't Add Up
4) Warrants are for, cell ping info, time card, the review surveillance foot collected from 2013 etc
5) RA officially becomes a suspect.
6) House Searched. Did they get anything?
7) After questioning, and probably tailing him, LE decides they need to arrest him right away

RA admitted to being on the bridge when initially questioned by LE and locals have long suspected half serious/half joking that he was actually man actually on the bridge.

Maybe he was initially cleared because he's friendly with someone in LE? And they didn't think he was capable.

 

[katydid23]

Says he's retained. Wonder where he got the money

Some defense attorneys will take a very high profile job in exchange for very little money---just for the publicity.

 

[schooling]

I think he was viewed as being on the right side of the law. From the beginning, they had so many molesters, pedophiles, rapists and simply unsavory types to go through, no one thought of a helpful pharmacy technician whose only legal problem was occasional speeding.

This is what I suspect too. He admitted to being on the bridge a week after the crime and since then locals apparently half jokingly / gossiped that it's him in the video.

I bet he was cleared because someone in LE thought he wasn't capable. And the KK evidence (don't think RA is connected to him at all) made them take a step back and take a fresh look at interviews and people in the area.

 

[Charlot123]

Is there any clarification on how and who reported that the suspect's eyes were "not blue"? That always seemed like such an odd thing to declare a certainty, considering the abundance and availability of colored contact lenses. The "definitely not blue" had made me wonder if they had DNA to prove that.

Allen's eyes ARE in fact blue. I'm even wondering if HE is the witness who made that claim.

They can’t say “definitely not blue” by the DNA. DNA language would be “likely, brown”. Mine were interpreted this way, and they simply give you percentages. “95% of people with your genome have brown eyes”. So it is not ironclad. In fact, RA might have green eyes that might even look hazel in some light. This usually happens when one parent has brown eyes, and the other, blue.

This Wiki article about eye color is worth reading.

Eye color - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[JudgeJudi]

Could Emilyann be RA ? Maybe connection discovered during the October 13th search warrant?

KAK had two profiles, Kegan Kline and EmilyAnn.

 

[JudgeJudi]

How did RA not see Libby using her phone to record him?

It is believed she held the phone down low to secretly record him. BG had to look down, like everybody who crossed the bridge, as there weres so many rotten ties.

 

[The Observer]

Says he's retained. Wonder where he got the money

Some defense attorneys will take a very high profile job in exchange for very little money---just for the publicity.

BOTH attorneys are court appointed.

 

[cuecard]

I always felt in amongst all the tips and stuff they had - and I imagine there was a massive volume even early on - the right piece of info to set them on the right trail was there, they just didn’t know how to connect it. RA being there so to speak and being spoken to early on doesn’t surprise me at all.

 

[LeBlack]

Source: Investigators have known for years that the Delphi suspect was on the Monon High Bridge the day Abby and Libby were killed

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Richard Allen, the man arrested in the 2017 double murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German near Delphi, told a state conservation officer he was in the area on the day of the killings, but his report may have been considered unfounded, a police source tells I-Team 8...

www.wishtv.com

"Allen’s statement was forgotten until recently when Indiana State Police became frustrated with the status of the Delphi investigation and asked a group of investigators to look over files related to the case"

That sounds like KAK was not getting them anywhere?

Let me just say. It's about time.

MOO

 

[Charlot123]

This is what I suspect too. He admitted to being on the bridge a week after the crime and since then locals apparently half jokingly / gossiped that it's him in the video.

I bet he was cleared because someone in LE thought he wasn't capable. And the KK evidence (don't think RA is connected to him at all) made them take a step back and take a fresh look at interviews and people in the area.

To add to it. If - if! - RA worked alone, he, indeed, has one trait linking him to serial killers. Much as RA lived in the same city with Libby and Abby, personally, he had no connection to them. JMO.

So when the girls were found, likely, LE looked for several groups, transients on the bridge, people who were “generally bad news”, or someone having a motive. Love, revenge, jealousy, you name it. The girls were minors, so any adult interacting with them could be scrutinized. School workers, parents of friends, coaches. And then, classmates, neighbors, their kids. Finding out a flimsy, peripheral connection, might take years. It could be so that ISP came across that connection and paid attention to RA. It also might be so that the connection will be found in the course of the trial.

 

[margarita25]

On a light note, this whole sketch business could’ve been worse, I suppose...

 

[TL4S]

I wonder if LE just isn't giving out the true information about what was found during the river search? Not accusing a cover-up from investigators, maybe just keeping results of search close to their vest?? If that information were to be released right now it might hurt the continuing investigation. JMO.

Very well could be. I don't know if many here agree with this, but IMO, the details that came out yesterday regarding the river search seemed to match what the MS podcast had reported at the time: that it was related to the Delphi investigation, that nothing like a weapon was found, that KAK had been questioned by LE about Delphi, which likely led to the search, and that KAK often lied to LE. This all strengthens my belief in their source, so what else has MS told us? That something other than a weapon was found in the river search that might support KAK's story. That there was a search in the burn pit at KAK's grandparents' house (nothing found but maybe testing was still being done). That KAK searched for Marathon gas Station in Delphi on the day of the murders, but the FBI lost the station's surveillance footage.

I respect that some people are tired of hearing about KAK, but he's not going away. He was most likely trying to solicit nude images of L in the days before her death. Even if he ends up being unrelated to the murders themselves, he's part of the investigation and was potentially committing his own crime against at least one of the victims.

There is a whole lot we still don't know about, IMO.

 

[margarita25]

Bringing forward for reference

Source: Investigators have known for years that the Delphi suspect was on the Monon High Bridge the day Abby and Libby were killed

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Richard Allen, the man arrested in the 2017 double murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German near Delphi, told a state conservation officer he was in the area on the day of the killings, but his report may have been considered unfounded, a police source tells I-Team 8...

www.wishtv.com

November 14, 2022

“DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Richard Allen, the man arrested in the 2017 double murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German near Delphi, told a state conservation officer he was in the area on the day of the killings, but his report may have been considered unfounded, a police source tells I-Team 8.

Allen, a 50-year-old resident of Delphi, went to the conservation officer right after the teens’ murders on Feb. 13, 2017, and said he was on the Monon High Bridge that afternoon but didn’t see the two girls, the source says.”

[...]

“Allen’s statement was forgotten until recently when Indiana State Police became frustrated with the status of the Delphi investigation and asked a group of investigators to look over files related to the case.

Investigators believe Allen is the man on the bridge in the cellphone video and in sketches released by police, the source tells I-Team 8.”