ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 7

[diggndeeperstill]

TIMELINE UPDATED in the media thread!
Please @ me with the source link if I've missed anything important!




SPECULATION/MOOs

I think that the "locked door theory" posed by Websleuthers makes a TON of sense and explains some of the things I was struggling to understand. If EC & XK's door was still locked, no one was answering it, and they weren't answering their phones (which maybe the others in the house could even hear), I could see the roommates panicking and calling friends first to come help figure out what's going on, and then someone finally saying, 'we'd better call 911.'

LE should definitely be looking into the connection with Buddy the Australian Shepherd. From the articles, it sounds like Buddy's owners lived in a more rural area, west of campus, and that Buddy was killed around the same time of night/early morning as the students' homicide. With the rabbit and Buddy's attack both taking place in that same area, I'd definitely be taking a very close look at people who lived near Buddy's family, especially those that generally work a second- or third-shift schedule that would allow them to be regularly awake and out and about at those hours -or- people from that area that work on or near campus.

I'd speculated that LE might have had an [unannounced, unpublicized] early POI that they were looking at but who, within the first day or so was eliminated (LINK TO MY POST ON THAT), thus explaining the early comments on it being "targeted," it being a "crime of passion," and the person not being a threat to others, and after listening to KG's family's latest interview and how vehement they were about defending him, I think her exbf may have been that early POI. LE would have been able to see those last calls and texts from both KG's and MM's phones (ASKING him to come over!) and assumed the ex did it, especially if the evidence pointed to KG being the target of the attack. But if the ex alibied out, they'd have to walk all that back and take a wider look.

I agree with your comments and thank you again for the work on the timeline. It is a huge resource.

 

[Dutch77]

Family members have said that that was her phoning style. If by any remote chance, she and her friend were lightly under the influence of anything, (as they’d have a right to be, of course,) I’d think that it might have seemed like an innocent joke to them.

From the food truck video, they did appear to be drunk, so drunk calling is a likely possibility

 

[taylorss]

I find the calls really bizarre and think there are a lot of unanswered questions around them. Unfortunately they were deleted because my post speculated on a perp that has not been named by LE. But the gist of the questions were, why would Kaylee be calling an ex, but more oddly, why would her friend be calling her ex if the ex wasn't picking up for her? Did the ex call them first? Were the texting? I'm sure phone records would show that. If it was just Kaylee calling, that would seem like ok maybe she was drunk and missing him and emotional since it was one of her last nights on campus before moving. But why would her friend call him? Did he not want to pick up for Kaylee? If so, why not? MOO

Yeah those calls are definitely attention-catching… there was speculation here yesterday (I think) that maybe the killer was physically small / weak & so acted when the victims were alseep cuz overpowering them might’ve been out of the question. With that line of thinking… maybe a new mate of the calls’ recipient became insanely jealous to see the “ex” blowing up his phone like that & wanted revenge? Could also suggest a possible reason the calls were unanswered despite coming from someone so close - an attempt to not inflame the jealous person any more.
All just speculation/ JMO

 

[sundaaaay]

LE should definitely be looking into the connection with Buddy the Australian Shepherd.

I agree, if they don't find good DNA samples at the house, hopefully the dog's grave is dug up and tested forensically due to the close proximity of both incidents. I find it hard to believe someone can kill four people with a knife so effectively without some experience in killing animals first. It would be interesting to know if any other animals locally were found dead in unusual or unnatural circumstances. It also opens the somewhat unlikely possibility that the house was originally targeted due to the dog being present but that the plan changed when the groups arrived home.

 

[Sleuthchik7]

In this video Kaylee's sister says when the girls got home, they let the dog out to go potty.

Idaho student deaths leave community reeling as investigators continue to look for answers

A week after four University of Idaho students were killed, police continue to search for evidence and ask for the community's help in finding the killer. Christina Ruffini has the latest on the investigation.

www.cbsnews.com

How does she know that? Was it posted to social media? Sorry, I really am curious.

 

[ShadyLady]

I wonder if the dog was examined for evidence. Or was he let out of the house before anything happened. Poor dog. I wonder how far he traveled before he was found.

On Buddy....breaks my heart. I especially love aussies. I hope they catch whoever did that crime, too.

 

[Sundog]

If E’s brothers were indeed the friends they called over, and E (&/or X) were the roommates they were worried about, it would make sense to me they called them instead of going to wake up the other girls.

E is a triplet with a brother and sister triplet, and all three of them are/were students at U of Idaho.

 

[missqwerty]

I dont think it’s anywhere near as complicated as some people are making out.

IMO

* The 10 calls to J were drunken booty calls, and he was asleep At 3am so didn’t hear them
* The perp was a stranger who didn’t know the layout of the house and missed roommates on the bottom floor because he didn’t know they were there
* The surviving roommates called friends first either because the door was locked or because there was a body behind a door stopping it from opening so when a (stronger male friend possibly) forced the door open a little they saw a foot or something that made them think unconscious and not dead.

The skinned dog may well have something to do with this though, I’m not ruling out someone escalating from that to this.

 

[fashionella]

If it's true that K complained of a stalker, that would be considered a lead. As bartender who has had a stalked, if you tell the boss there is a good chance that someone might confront this person, ban them from the bar, etc. Which in my case, I was afraid of doing bc getting banned would enrage him. But I did tell my coworkers if anything ever happened to me, this is his license plate. And if the person is stalking her social media or her friends SM, he would know she was back in town and wanted to exact revenge or continue his stalking. I have to assume LE is following this lead.

 

[Sleuthchik7]

Family members have said that that was her phoning style. If by any remote chance, she and her friend were lightly under the influence of anything, (as they’d have a right to be, of course,) I’d think that it might have seemed like an innocent joke to them.

Maybe they are just saying that because honestly, it’s rude and I’d find it really annoying if someone did that to me.

 

[AngTxGal]

What I’m saying is, if there was blood, how did the girls NOT see it? That’s my point. I totally get you go up to a locked door try to open it, get no answer, call your friends. What I don’t get is, what we know to be 4 stabbings, HOW was there no apparent blood outside the room for the girls to see? I’m making an assumption that if they saw blood, they would’ve called 911 and not a friend. So again, that makes me think they did not see any blood.

We don‘t know if victims were inside the 2nd floor room or in the living or kitchen area, coroner said they all were in bed when attacked.
From the top of the stairs they could have seen through an opened bedroom door a body on the bed or floor and called out to them, no response.
If they did go over to them, render aid, see the blood we don’t have that info, we are just told they called friends and one of them called 911.
When/If the 911 call is released we will know

 

[nightowl2728]

I have had it in my mind strongly that E was in the hallway. But, after watching his parents interview--- her last sentence was "they were in the same room."

I now wonder too if the roommates hear his phone ringing and or his alarm going off over and over. Then they pound on the door and get no response--- so then they decide to call his brother who lives across the street.

Ok, now that said, @TL4S brought out in part something very important:

"From my understanding, the victims had all been asleep during the attack (several sources, including today's PC), but by the end, not all were killed in bed (see source below). I know some will suggest maybe E was sleeping on the couch or something, but I personally don't think that's what's being said here. I think whoever was killed first in the second floor bedroom, the other tried to flee and was killed on the floor of the bedroom..."

Some of the murdered University of Idaho students were stabbed in their beds, coroner says

"Of the four University of Idaho students who were found stabbed to death in a rental house last Sunday, some were killed in their beds, the Latah County coroner told CBS News Friday."

"Coroner Cathy Mabbutt would not provide any further details. She noted, however, that earlier media reports stating all four victims had been murdered in their beds were not accurate."

-------------------------

Speculation as to why E&X were killed if they were not the "targets" - killer knew that it would be impossible to kill M&K (or what he wanted to do with them before or after) without second floor occupants hearing. So he gets rid of them first. Edit- or after. JMO

 

[crax.t]

E is a triplet with a brother and sister triplet, and all three of them are/were students at U of Idaho.

first time poster here, hi -
i think they meant fraternity brothers. not the other siblings of E's. given how close the frat house is to the scene, it would make sense. jmo

 

[SUSAN ANN]

Sorry if this has been discussed. I'm just thinking out loud and won't say I'm near caught up. This is a real-life tragedy and the poor loved ones and I do not mean to sound insensitive, accusatory, or callous in any way, I'm just a little disappointed that I feel like I am thinking a lot about the interview from the parents. Partly, because we don't have a lot of direct information to think about.

But in it they talk about their daughter potentially buying her first vehicle on her own (was it confirmed that was the Range Rover?), potentially coming to school to show it off for that weekend, potentially initiating the break from a long-term relationship, potentially going backpacking through Europe for the month of January (doesn't say with whom), potentially moving to start a new lucrative job in Feb at the same company she interned at, and potentially talking to the ex the whole week and a half she was home and one of the last messages appealed to co-parenting the dog as a reason to come over. They certainly say more than that, to be clear, if you haven't listened to it.

In my opinion, these details could be just terrible and awful coincidences. Assuming it is accurate information. And certainly it's important to remember this is just one side of the story. The way they seem to talk so clearly is gut-wrenching for me as it almost seems like they may not have processed everything fully and honestly could they have. I will not pretend to understand a situation like this for loved ones or how they manage emotions and perspectives afterwards. To be sure, I am not suggesting blame or recklessly insinuating any accusations of anything at anyone. I feel that anything is possible here and I'm waiting for justice to be served every hour that passes. MOO.

For years and years, I have thought it is wrong wrong wrong for people to post photos of themselves their kids, their homes, and every detail of their lives. Cars trips, etc.

 

[gitana1]

I find this very disconcerting. It seems the perpetrator entered the house when all were asleep (or lay in wait), and attacked them in succession. Two sets of victims on two different floors. This seems like a deliberate and organized attack based on the info we have. This is not the action of a jealous wannabe bf or an angry person seeking revenge or trying to get even. These are the actions of a psychopath. I think this may be why the FBI jumped on this case so quickly. Nothing in this case so far reads like they were murdered by someone they knew.

JMO. MOO. IMO

I would tend to agree. Except LE calling this “targeted” and saying the population isn’t in danger. Also, calling this “complex”. Has that stance changed?

 

[taylorss]

Agreed, it's like they're looking back at the most minute details of what was going on in her life and searching their minds for clues as to why this terrible thing happened.
Is that what you're saying ?
That someone in her circle of friends and acquaintances may have become jealous of her ?

I'm still on the fence about whether a stranger killed them, or a feud with people known to them.

Graphic :




The lack of any blood on the door handles or furniture/walls from the perp makes me think they wore gloves and took them off after the killings.
As in, if you wear a gloves and it's bloody, you'd still leave an imprint if touching a door knob, etc.
My .02.

Yeah … or… if a long-handled weapon - like a machete or whatever - was used by someone experienced with it, might that make it more likely the killer stayed clean?
Imo

 

[Strong1]

I am so confused by the time of death being estimated at between 2am and 5am. How can that be if they have records of 2 of the victims trying to make phone calls up until 2:52? Also the 911 call wasn't made until 11:58am. So if you go from the last phone call attempt 2:52am to 11:58am the time of the 911 call, that seems like a much broader window.
Unless, it wasn't actually the girls making the phone calls, but the killer using the girls phones. To maybe throw off the timeline? Seems like a stretch but possible?

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

So from what I gather there was a lot of blood, very messy. That would lead me to believe the perp had blood all over him and at least some cuts to his hands from the knife slipping.
I do not see a lot of crime scene markers outside, so it is strange that there is not a blood trail. In conclusion the killer had been covered up during the stabbings. They were all stabbed in bed , his hands should have some kind of cuts , don't you think?
LE has interviewed many people no one with cuts so sus still out there.IMO

 

[Nancywho]

Purely conjecture here but I wonder if the killer did something similar with the victims bodies as he did to Buddy; the emphasis on how horrible the crime scene was and how officers are barely able to handle it has made me wonder.

I've been wondering this too and it's too horrifying to even contemplate, but the timeline change from the police to 3-5am (or 6am?) makes me think maybe the killer was in the house for longer than we originally may have assumed. It makes me feel sick to think about what he/she may have done if this is indeed linked to the dog.

 

[Sleuthchik7]

Ugh

And the fact there are so so so many officers of all branches involved now.