ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 10

[Curious Me]

...I thought their rental home had a cyclone fence around a portion of the lawn near the 2nd bdrm and the 2nd floor sliding door. Am I mistaken? Isn't that why we found the ladder to possibly hold significance? Ladder is gone, too.

I remember there was a ladder. It's hard to keep up and hard to confirm some of what is posted. This is an informative article, with another pic of the house.​

Blood-soaked Idaho crime scene 'major challenge' for investigators: expert

The crime scene where four Idaho college students were slaughtered will be grueling to process given the number of victims and amount of blood, an expert told Fox News Digital.

www.foxnews.com

 

[schooling]

Pressure is mounting on cops for a breakthrough, but former FBI Assistant Director Bill Swecker says police may be on the wrong track.

“We aren't seeing any suspect that had a motive or a means or an opportunity or a capability,” he says. “That would be very hard to hide if someone had that level of animosity. So, it appears at this point they are stumped.”

He believes that the murders are the work of a predator.

“Someone who selected them that evening, saw them in a bar or a food truck… one of these four and followed them back to the residence and did this on a sort of a random basis,” he tells Inside Edition.
--
This blunt way of telling the public, "WE GOT NOTHIN'!", is making me think they have something alright, and are trying to make the perp relax as to not flee.

The former FBI assistant director is not directly involved in the case (as far as we know) and has no motive to lie or mislead. So citing him as evidence for “we got nothing, but we really do” is kind of disingenuous. *Former* (emphasis) FBI Assistant Director Bill Swecker thinks that Moscow PD LITERALLY has nothing.

 

[Audrina]

The former FBI assistant director is not directly involved in the case (as far as we know) and has no motive to lie or mislead. So citing him as evidence for “we got nothing, but we really do” is kind of disingenuous. *Former* (emphasis) FBI Assistant Director Bill Swecker thinks that Moscow PD LITERALLY has nothing.

Wow - this is my opinion - but it feels irresponsible of him to be saying that if he is not privy to information on this case.

 

[Cherylis]

I’ve seen some people mention crime of passion.
Crimes of passion are a phrase used to mitigate a 2nd degree murder down to manslaughter. Typically these crimes involve heat of the moment with no time to cool down. LE has stated this was a targeted attack, typically meaning that it was premeditated with malice aforethought. Therefore, imho from what has been released, this was probably not a crime of passion.

I agree. I think the mayor is the person who used that term within the first day or two after the murders and he used it incorrectly. Unfortunately, it seems to have stuck. Even if this was more of a spur of the moment attack or a crime of opportunity, it’s still not a crime of passion/second degree murder.

 

[JSTANOVICE]

I agree. I think the mayor is the person who used that term within the first day or two after the murders and he used it incorrectly. Unfortunately, it seems to have stuck. Even if this was more of a spur of the moment attack or a crime of opportunity, it’s still not a crime of passion/second degree murder.

I used It In Some of my post, for lack of a better word, And the mayor did use it the day after the murders, Maybe A crime of obsession would be a better term

 

[NancyDrewISOclues]

News conference tomorrow at 1pm PST

 

[debbiediablo]

I myself am thinking all the calls to J are because the dog was missing when they got home. I personally believe the killer was already there and let the dog out so that it did not cause a disturbance during his crimes (neighbors reported to local and national news they heard no noise at all coming from this house that night, and they were used to regularly hearing whatever was going on over there) and that's why Kaylee and Maddie called J a lot of times, over and over again, until 2:53am. This explains as well why Maddie joined in on calling J. Also explains why she'd say something along the lines of, "This dog is both of ours together", the text that her parents told the news about. The police made a mention of locating the dog, and "gave him to a responsible party", now this poor, sweet puppy is back with J.

I see a big thing on Websleuths is stating when something is your opinion, and I'd like to say, this is my personal opinion. I think it makes sense and fits all of the blank spaces within the set of facts.

According to NewsNationNow the dog was found in the house the following day. Part or perhaps all of the attempted discussion with JD was dog-related. In my opinion the housemates in the basement came home earlier and went to bed, the dog going with one of them. I own two smaller versions of Murphy and this is exactly how they behave, going from human pack member to another depending on who is available when it's bedtime. I think Kaylee and Maddie were thinking Murphy was missing and calling to determine if JD picked it up or if it slipped outside and was loose in the neighborhood.

 

[debirlfan]

I can see it this way but why no sexual assault? These are intimate murders, or seem to be, so I can't wrap my brain around this unless the killer is female (how did she overpower all of them, even in the dark with drink or drugs in their systems) or unless the target was Ethan. He would be easier to kill in a house with five women rather than a frat house filled with adult males. With Ethan as target, Xana would have to die. But then there's the question of why go upstairs to kill Kaylee and Maddie. The lack of sexual assault makes this look so much different.... does anyone recall another set of murders similar to these?

What if a sexual assault was intended, but the killer was...let's say unable to perform?

 

[layer]

What if a sexual assault was intended, but the killer was...let's say unable to perform?

There would be...signs of that.

 

[Audrina]

FBI — Seeking Information in Quadruple Homicide in Moscow, Idaho
FBI has a tip site set up for people to submit any suspicious online information they see.

 

[BrownRice]

I myself am thinking all the calls to J are because the dog was missing when they got home. I personally believe the killer was already there and let the dog out so that it did not cause a disturbance during his crimes (neighbors reported to local and national news they heard no noise at all coming from this house that night, and they were used to regularly hearing whatever was going on over there) and that's why Kaylee and Maddie called J a lot of times, over and over again, until 2:53am. This explains as well why Maddie joined in on calling J. Also explains why she'd say something along the lines of, "This dog is both of ours together", the text that her parents told the news about. The police made a mention of locating the dog, and "gave him to a responsible party", now this poor, sweet puppy is back with J.

I see a big thing on Websleuths is stating when something is your opinion, and I'd like to say, this is my personal opinion. I think it makes sense and fits all of the blank spaces within the set of facts.

That’s a great suggestion about the dog. But I can’t believe they’d go to sleep with dog missing.

 

[MamaZA]

I live in the Uk ..This is my first post about this case.. I’ve read all the comments and have been looking at all the information like everyone else has. These are my thoughts … I personally believe there is an obvious answer to this case but maybe the LE do not have enough evidence to make an arrest.

I watched the Grub Truck video on Tik Tok the full 10 min version.
Many people have commented about a guy wearing a cap and hoodie ..
The Grub Truck video surely has got to be crucial evidence in this case (if you haven’t watched it check it out especially when they arrive and the last 30 seconds seems very important)
It would have taken 26 mins give or take according to Google Maps to walk from the Grub Truck to the residence, KC & MM took an Uber which would have only taken 5 mins.
If somebody knew where they lived and decided to follow them there after the Grub Truck it would certainly fit the time line for when calls to the ex bf were made. I was thinking a person could wait around until the house fell quiet or he thought they were asleep, maybe the girls were even concerned he was outside.
In my opinion I think someone has felt reflected, humiliated maybe (at the Grub Truck) I also think if they were having a problem with say a younger guy the first thoughts would probably be to call a trusted male rather than the police because you may just think hes a harmless weirdo..but want some backup.
I don’t believe that the dog had escaped outside because if that was fact surely MM & KC would not have gone to sleep.
In my opinion I think E + X were unfortunately either witnesses or just in the way on the 2nd Floor.
I think the killer is hiding in plain sight but whether there is enough evidence could be a problem.

I watched that video as well. Has LE said everyone in that video has been eliminated from the suspect list? Or just the guy with the hat/hoodie that K and M walked up with?

Did anyone else notice the man in a tank top and shorts? Seemed odd since everyone else is in winter clothing and looking cold. But also, there is another person who seems to notice when M and K walk up to the truck and looks over at the girls every so often while talking to his friends. M even walks right past him to hug another guy, then back again, both times doesn’t acknowledge the guy. Which whatever - she may not know him, but this same person walks over and talks to the male friend (the hat and hoodie guy everyone that was suspicious at first) - so he obviously knows them. It seems like he tried to get closer to the girls while they were there. At one point it looks like he makes eye contact with K, and she doesn’t appear to react to him. Prob just a coincidence but it stood out to me. I mean M and K were beautiful, so not surprising they would catch the eye of nearby males. This guy just looked a bit older to me. Beard. Tan hat tan zip up jacket. He is there at the truck just before M and K arrive and stays for some time after they walk away, but leaves in the same direction. He walks away with two people that arrived separately to the truck. I wonder if they stayed together after the truck.

 

[NancyDrewISOclues]

I agree. I think the mayor is the person who used that term within the first day or two after the murders and he used it incorrectly. Unfortunately, it seems to have stuck. Even if this was more of a spur of the moment attack or a crime of opportunity, it’s still not a crime of passion/second degree murder.

I wish I knew the right terminology for the murders. I can’t think of the word but to me murdering someone with a knife is a very up close and personal way to kill someone. Rather than say shooting with a gun where death is quicker. With strangulation or stabbing the perp is very up close and personal to the deaths of their victims.

 

[MMLTW]

One thing that bothers me: The murderer must have been covered in blood, yet I don't see any signs that he tracked any outside of the house whatsoever. To me, this indicates one of two possible scenarios--either the murderer had on some sort of coverall that he stripped and bagged before leaving the house, or he showered in the house and changed before leaving. The second scenario seems highly unlikely...but if the first is true, it indicates calculation and planning. MOO, but I believe this was not a rampage carried out by, say, someone at the food truck or someone who got enraged at the bar that night.

I'm inclined to think the murderer had planned this out, and on the night in question simply waited either on the hill or in a car in the parking lot behind the house for the lights to go out--i.e., after the girls quit calling the boyfriend and went to sleep (assuming they had the lights on while they were calling, which admittedly may not be the case).

Again, personal opinion only.

 

[Allabouttrial]

News conference tomorrow at 1pm PST

Just for clarification for those in a different time zone. It's scheduled for Weds. 23rd in 11 hrs. time.

 

[Jallisons]

I myself am thinking all the calls to J are because the dog was missing when they got home. I personally believe the killer was already there and let the dog out so that it did not cause a disturbance during his crimes (neighbors reported to local and national news they heard no noise at all coming from this house that night, and they were used to regularly hearing whatever was going on over there) and that's why Kaylee and Maddie called J a lot of times, over and over again, until 2:53am. This explains as well why Maddie joined in on calling J. Also explains why she'd say something along the lines of, "This dog is both of ours together", the text that her parents told the news about. The police made a mention of locating the dog, and "gave him to a responsible party", now this poor, sweet puppy is back with J.

I see a big thing on Websleuths is stating when something is your opinion, and I'd like to say, this is my personal opinion. I think it makes sense and fits all of the blank spaces within the set of facts.

Agree that perp may have been in the house already and let the dog out, hid on third floor if M or K was intended target, and calls were to dog’s co-owner worried about dog’s whereabouts. Do not agree with the idea of someone else who posted in this chain that perp made calls on M/K phones because would not know their passwords to open their phones. Possible scenario: M&K got home, ate the food from grub truck on second floor kitchen/common area, then went upstairs to room where dog was supposed to be, dog not there, worried calls until 2:52, possibly also asked X&E if they had any idea about dog’s whereabouts, house settles down after M/K conclude dog will come home on its own or is with co-owner even though not planned in advance, both sleeping in M’s bed since K already moved out, then perp emerges from 3rd floor hiding place and attacks them, comes downstairs to leave and encounters E&X and kills them also though that was not part of the original plan, exits thru sliding door off kitchen. All obviously speculation and MOO. My sincere sympathies to the families and friends.

 

[1mtroyal]

IMO "They" should know if the suspect was wearing gloves. Gloves have "fingerprints" of their own. My house was broken into and my house collects a lot of dust. I could tell the person was wearing gloves since the fingerprints had square impressions all over the prints. IMO If the suspect closed the door and locked it, there could be a goldmine of evidence on the door if he was not wearing gloves. IMO And it is beginning to look like the caller to 911 might have been banging on the door of one of the victims and assumed the roommate might have been unconscious since she did not come to the door. IMO The suspect probably made sure to close and lock all doors to thwart the progress of the investigation. IMO The police can probably determine the brand of gloves someone wore and which stores sell the brand. IMO

 

[Awakening]

I think it’s someone known to them.

One possibility in my mind but TOS prevents me from that speculation.

My other thought is that there was some incident at the party at the frat house E and X were at.

My understanding is the frat house is only 10 minutes walk away.

Someone/s has followed them, waited for them to go to sleep before killing them.

Then when cleaning himself up, K and M come home and recognise this person ask them what they are doing here. Perhaps the person is a friend or fraternity member.

The person offers an innocent explanation, helping E and X home, they were both drunk or whatever excuse, and now I’m leaving.

Killer realises that K and M will know it was him when the bodies are found so he waits for them to fall asleep before killing them too.

Perhaps that’s why the girls call J. They have an uneasy feeling, something feels off, but he doesn’t answer so they shrug it off and fall asleep.

 

[SpicyFruit]

​

I remember there was a ladder. It's hard to keep up and hard to confirm some of what is posted. This is an informative article, with another pic of the house.​

View attachment 382087

Blood-soaked Idaho crime scene 'major challenge' for investigators: expert

The crime scene where four Idaho college students were slaughtered will be grueling to process given the number of victims and amount of blood, an expert told Fox News Digital.

www.foxnews.com

"Police believe the victims, who were found on the second and third floors, were ambushed in their sleep."

"Each of the students was stabbed multiple times in the chest area, likely by the same weapon, and at least one victim had defensive wounds, according to Latah County Coroner Cathy Mabbutt."

"In stabbing cases, perpetrators often injure themselves, said Joseph Giacolone, an adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a retired NYPD sergeant.
In stabbing cases, perpetrators often injure themselves, said Joseph Giacolone, an adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice and a retired NYPD sergeant. "

"
Morgan was surprised by this detail. "It's a combat knife, single-edged, with a hilt," he said. "It's a short blade, not as robust as other survival knives."

He speculated investigators could have zeroed in on this type of knife because it has a hilt, which may have left bruises around the stab wounds when it was violently thrust into the victims."



--
So the victims were on the 2nd and 3rd story. Kaylee's room was on the 3rd story. I wonder if she and Maddie may have been sleeping in the same room. In the video of the food truck you can tell both were intoxicated, maybe they came home, ate and passed out in the same room making it easier to take out both. Them both making calls to the same person a little time before they were murdered also could point to them being in the same room. Wouldn’t be unheard of for two drunk friends to lay down for a second and knock out.

I wonder if either girls left voicemails or texts in between the calls.

They haven’t said too much about the layout of the house but maybe the two survivors were on the 1st floor and since this could have been a basement when the home was originally built maybe it had a door at the end of the stairs and this was locked preventing the person from ending their lives as well. If there was a door at each end of the stairs separating each floor this could also be why LE originally thought they were individual apartments.

 

[Audrina]

Agree that perp may have been in the house already and let the dog out, hid on third floor if M or K was intended target, and calls were to dog’s co-owner worried about dog’s whereabouts. Do not agree perp made calls on M/K phones because would not know their passwords to open their phones. Possible scenario: M&K got home, ate the food from grub truck on second floor kitchen/common area, then went upstairs to room where dog was supposed to be, dog not there, worried calls until 2:52, possibly also asked X&E if they had any idea about dog’s whereabouts, house settles down after M/K conclude dog will come home on its own or is with co-owner even though not planned in advance, both sleeping in M’s bed since K already moved out, then perp emerges from 3rd floor hiding place and attacks them, comes downstairs to leave and encounters E&X and kills them also though that was not part of the original plan, exits thru sliding door off kitchen. All obviously speculation and MOO. My sincere sympathies to the families and friends.

Respectfully I never said that the perp made calls on M&K's phones, did you confuse my post with another?
Glad I'm not the only one with the idea the dog may have been purposely let out by the attacker.