Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

Status
Not open for further replies.
ITA. He and his wife sat in the car when the 12 hour search was conducted. He should have started looking for a lawyer first thing the next day. Assuming his wife had no inkling as to why their home and property was being searched, the conversation in the car would have been more than a little interesting unless he simply brushed her off with "I have no idea".
I'm assuming LE would have had to give them a copy of the warrant before entering since it's private property.
In which case, RA would have had zero chance to plead "I have no idea" since the grounds for the search would have been written in brutally plain black and white.
Assuming of course she was able to read the warrant for herself.

All of this of course is speculation, until we know more.
 
The media motion to intervene in the RA case is an interesting read.

Firstly, it sounds like the attorneys representing the media organisations were expecting - because of an Order made by the Court - to have their submissions heard on Nov 22 pursuant to Indiana Code 5-14-13-5.5 and Indiana Rules of Court (Rules on Access to Court Records Rule 6 ("APRA")). It turns out that despite an Order being made to this end, this procedure was not followed by the Court on Nov 22.

The motion (or "application" if you're reading from the UK or other English legal system countries) then goes on to make a few other pertinent points about the media's interest in gaining access to certain documents. These are serious people, without a direct interest in the case itself (rather, with the civil rights questions raised by how it is being handled). This motion was drafted by presumably very experienced lawyers, and I can't imagine it being submitted frivolously:

- "During the Public Hearing, the State triviliazed the media's interests by referring to "extraordinary lengths" taken to get a "soundbite." The Media Intervenors' interests are not so trivial - quite the opposite. The media, as the Fourth Estate, serves the public by reporting on matters of keen public interest [...] promoting transparency, and holding the government accountable."

- "Though the State indicated that actors other than the Defendant may have be (sic) involved in the alleged crimes, the State apparently has conducted sufficient investigation as to the Defendant himself to charge him with double felony murder. The State may continue investigating other actors while disclosing why the Defendant was charged. The supporting information should not be kept under the rug [...]."

- "The State's concern for witness privacy suggests that the State may ask for future hearings - or even the trial itself - to be blocked from public access. If the public is to accept the ultimate result of any trial, this is not a realistic solution. [...] A public trial and public proceedings are essential to ensure justice for the victims, fairness to the accused, and overall legitimacy of the process."

- "If the Defendant is acquitted or enters into a plea agreement, the public needs to know why to ensure the government is doing its job. If the Defendant is found guilty, the public needs to know why to ensure that the government is delivering justice."

- "There are too many instances in our nation's short history of criminal sanctions being handed down without appropriate process and public oversight. This is not an occasion to return to that practice."

You can read the full motion attached, which was submitted by Margaret Christensen from Dentons LLP out of Indianapolis, acting on behalf of the Associated Press, ABC News, Hoosier State Press Assoc., and others, to the Carroll County Circuit Court on November 23.
I asked the same thing after we found out the judge was deciding later regarding the pca whether we would now expect a publication ban. This wouldn’t surprise me to be honest.
 
They are mentioned in this broadcast:
It's not that exciting, it's just personal letters/requests.
This sounds incredibly hinky to me. JMO More people are involved in the case, but they won't say or don't know the other parties? (Or they don't have enough to arrest.) RA is the only arrest made to date, and no one knows the contents of the PCA, but the state? It seems a bit like RA is being railroaded. What am I missing? TIA
 
Why would he know what had been found? It's sounds much more reasonable that he had no idea what they found because he knows he didn't have anything to do with it. Also why he overestimated the cost of an attorney. An innocent man does not Google the cost of capital defense attorneys. According to media, RA's wife is behind him and believes in his innocence. His desperate plea to the judge on her and her children's account seems to support this. If his wife did NOT provide testimony implicating him, it stands to reason that she did NOT recognize the cap, jeans, shirt or blue jacket in the video. The judge is not helping by refusing to release the evidence against him. RA shares few physical features with the photo or the sketches. It's been nearly six years. IMO this PD has not earned the benefit of the doubt here. At present, there are several reasons to believe this man is innocent.
I agree!! How can this judge hold without bail a man who isn't even allowed to know what the evidence is against him? Aren't they violating due process multiple ways?
 
I asked the same thing after we found out the judge was deciding later regarding the pca whether we would now expect a publication ban. This wouldn’t surprise me to be honest.
This is a total cluster, and has been from the start, imo. What in the world is going on in Indiana? Why are they failing at every turn to be the least bit transparent?
 
I don't know how the judge is permitted not to make a determination on bail?! It's not as if this case just snuck up on the judge.

And the state presented a redacted PCA to the judge on the day of or shortly before the hearing to see if the PCA will be unsealed? I thought these things were argued in open court and a decision was made on the day of the hearing on the motion?!

Has he waived his right to a speedy trial? If not, the state is not doing a very good job of clock management. MOO
 
I'm assuming LE would have had to give them a copy of the warrant before entering since it's private property.
In which case, RA would have had zero chance to plead "I have no idea" since the grounds for the search would have been written in brutally plain black and white.
Assuming of course she was able to read the warrant for herself.

All of this of course is speculation, until we know more.
In order to get a search warrant, LE have to convince a judge or neutral and detached magistrate that they have probable cause to believe evidence of a crime may be found there or that criminal activity is occurring at the place to be searched.
This information is provided to the judge in affidavit form and the property owner will only see what is to be searched when he is shown the warrant.

LE can only search the places, e.g. house, backyard and property etc. listed in the warrant, but that doesn't mean they can only seize those items. If, in the course of their search, they come across evidence of a crime that is not listed in the warrant, they can often seize it.
 
I listened to a recap of the sealing hearing. The DAs first reason is that some witnesses are still minors and many were minors on 2/13/17.
Still that can’t be helped, redact their names and move on. RA is pleading “not guilty” it will all be part of the trial.
 
RA and his lawyers have the PC. It’s the public that does not.
And the judge, apparently? How can a judge effectively preside over a case when he or she isn't even privy to the PCA?
 
To keep sealed or to unseal, THAT is the question! :)

I keep flip flopping on this one. I think it’s important that there is transparency and that the public has a right to know how strong the evidence is. However, minors and witnesses need to be protected so….redact, heavily if needed.

RA’s lawyer commented on the statement by the prosecutor that they believe “others” may be involved. He responded that is news to him. From that I think we can conclude that the AA does not speak to these “others” that may be involved since his lawyer no doubt had a copy of the AA before the hearing. How then would releasing the AA compromise their independent investigation of the “others” if they are not mentioned in RA’s AA? Surely LE have not arrested RA on flimsy evidence merely hoping to prove others were also involved and that they (RA and the others) will implicate each other in this heinous crime? I keep reminding myself that a Judge signed off on the arrest. Then I remind myself that he “exited, stage left!”

Once again, I find myself having a hard time articulating what is going through my head at the moment.

To keep sealed or to unseal. I can’t make up my mind :rolleyes:!

MOO MOO
 
To keep sealed or to unseal, THAT is the question! :)

I keep flip flopping on this one. I think it’s important that there is transparency and that the public has a right to know how strong the evidence is. However, minors and witnesses need to be protected so….redact, heavily if needed.

RA’s lawyer commented on the statement by the prosecutor that they believe “others” may be involved. He responded that is news to him. From that I think we can conclude that the AA does not speak to these “others” that may be involved since his lawyer no doubt had a copy of the AA before the hearing. How then would releasing the AA compromise their independent investigation of the “others” if they are not mentioned in RA’s AA? Surely LE have not arrested RA on flimsy evidence merely hoping to prove others were also involved and that they (RA and the others) will implicate each other in this heinous crime? I keep reminding myself that a Judge signed off on the arrest. Then I remind myself that he “exited, stage left!”

Once again, I find myself having a hard time articulating what is going through my head at the moment.

To keep sealed or to unseal. I can’t make up my mind :rolleyes:!

MOO MOO
Yes, what is up with the judge recusing himself or otherwise leaving, citing security concerns? What does that mean? A threat to his security? By whom?
 
Yes, what is up with the judge recusing himself or otherwise leaving, citing security concerns? What does that mean? A threat to his security? By whom?
 

So, absolutely nothing until the trial? That is unusual. However, I assume that RA's attorneys will be privy to the information in discovery?

Innocent until proven guilty? I am not seeing this here. The man has never been arrested before, has family support, house, seems like he should be eligible for a reasonable bail amount. Good grief, they already put him in prison! "For his safety". Of course.
 
Ironically, defendants and victims' families have to deal with that all the time, only they can't recuse themselves. (Thinking of Summer Moon's family.) No one should have to endure anything like that. MOO
 

So, absolutely nothing until the trial? That is unusual. However, I assume that RA's attorneys will be privy to the information in discovery?

Innocent until proven guilty? I am not seeing this here. The man has never been arrested before, has family support, house, seems like he should be eligible for a reasonable bail amount. Good grief, they already put him in prison! "For his safety". Of course.
I am not seeing even a hint of innocent until proven guilty.
 
In this video Carter discusses the 2 sketches. “Isn’t that amazing. He looks a lot like one and a little bit like the other depending on the eye of the beholder, right?" At this point the sketch of YBG is overlaid that of OBG. It’s interesting to see that facially they’re not as different as you may think.

 
Exactly, does he mean the case is just too media saturated?
MOO no one threatened him.
MOO I'm going to guess that when the judge said there were countless demands for information, from YouTubers, podcasters, etc, he didn't appreciate that they threatened lawsuits, citing Indiana FOIA laws, if they didn't get the info within X number of hours. I even read one person said they would kill to get their hands on that affidavit. TOO media saturated is probably an understatement. MOO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
147
Guests online
4,073
Total visitors
4,220

Forum statistics

Threads
592,295
Messages
17,966,846
Members
228,735
Latest member
dil2288
Back
Top