ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 15

[CFProfiles]

The fact that they were looking for camera info from 95 specifically could maybe be they are trying to confirm an alibi?

 

[davisrnr1]

• In an interview with DailyMail.com, Idaho State Police spokesman Aaron Snell, 49, said it is possible all four victims could have been targeted
• 'We still believe it was a targeted attack based on the evidence at the scene and how everything developed, what we know. We believe that's accurate,' he said
• But Snell admitted police are still no closer to identifying a murderer and refused to say which of the victims is believed to be the target
• He said: 'That's a real delicate question and when we're able to say that or if we're able to say that, we'll definitely do that'
• Police are also still unable to corroborate claims that victim Kaylee Goncalves, 21, may have had a stalker
• Goncalves's pet dog Murphy was home at the time of the slayings and is now living with her ex-boyfriend (JD) and his family in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho
• Seen in exclusive DailyMail.com photos, red-haired (JD), 22, had dated Kaylee for six years and was possibly the last person to speak with her
• He has been ruled out as a suspect and has been too heartbroken to speak, with his mom telling DailyMail.com that the family intends to stay silent out of respect

"Snell said the theory plays into the notion that one of the four was targeted but refused to say which of the victims police believe to be the target, describing it as a 'delicate question'.

He said: 'That's part of the ongoing investigation. That's a real delicate question and when we're able to say that or if we're able to say that, we'll definitely do that."

Idaho police can't corroborate claims that victim had a stalker

Police investigating the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students have insisted at least one of the victims was targeted - but refuse to say which of the friends could have been the focus.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Lots of photos at link

To me, this is the most interesting comment from the article:

'You can't lay all your cards out at once. We're trying to find the various potential participants."

 

[beaaspears]

I am not sure anyone was targeted. Whoever resisted most might have invited more anger, but it doesn’t mean, targeted. I don’t see the reason to kill four people if you are after one. Maybe the guy was so cold-hearted that he needed one, killed the other one in the room, and the other two, to complicate matters for the police?

But if someone was, it really makes sense to think of people permanently living in the house. To kill a man in his GF’s room is very mafia-like style, sorry. And really, it takes a lot of stalking.

To kill a person who randomly stopped at the house, like K, “now or never” style, takes a lot of preparation.

The other two girls are more traceable because they live there.

I can imagine someone hiding in the house in advance, but not dressed for murder. I think he walked in. JMO. Good luck to Idaho police and FBI.

to me the weirdest part of this whole case is that the way the victims were killed looks like a passional murder. Multiple wounds, a very bloody scene and the closeness the attacker was from the victims. But also puzzles me that E didn't live there. Was it a crime of opportunity? Maybe the person was targeting K or M and just after killing X + E he noticed he got the wrong person?

To me as a crime junkie this case is sending me weird vibes and its all over the place.

 

[isabella88]

I don’t see the reason to kill four people if you are after one. Maybe the guy was so cold-hearted that he needed one, killed the other one in the room, and the other two, to complicate matters for the police?

IMO, the killer could have 1) Killed his target first then had to deal with the other roommates waking up or; 2) Had such rage that he just killed everyone he saw/knew of being in the house or; 3) Targeted the entire household for some as-yet-unknown reason

 

[Stratford258]

Cops are upset that the other roommates called their friends before 911.

Moscow, Idaho community on edge as students return from break, police see more 911 calls pouring in

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20; Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Xana Kernodle, 20; and 21-year-old Madison Mogen were stabbed several times and killed on November 13.

www.foxnews.com

That speaks volumes about trust in LE. I just checked CNN and the story is no longer in the home page. Fox has it as the third headline but only to say that now that students are back there are a lot of tips. I think it is either a young student who will be caught this semester or it is a juvenile or young neighborhood kid who frequents the woods. He may steal their alcohol or other party items and may be very familiar with breaking into that house. We need footprint analysis and what direction the perp headed when he left the house. His height and weight will also be available from that.

I like your username.

I'd be shocked if this is another young person. It could be, but I'm more inclined to believe it's someone who's killed before in the same manner. A young person could have, but it's less likely they'd succeed.

What is the motive you're considering?

Sadly, I think it's someone who's obsessed with killing - someone who's got advanced malignant psychopathic traits.

Having very little information from LE, unfortunately our speculation won't really be able to go very far. Hopefully LE feels confident they're on the path to finding this dangerous perpetrator before they do anything else/hurt anyone else.

 

[CaneDubs]

Trying to reconcile the idea of a targeted attack vs. a mass thrill kill situation, it occurred to me that killing 3/4 of the people there could really just have been about delaying discovery to give enough time to get further away / establish alibis with a more vague timeline. I do think it is possible that they didn't realize there were two more people downstairs, especially if they came in the downstairs door and did not come upstairs before going to bed. MOO, of course.

 

[Charlot123]

That’s not what it says. They are talking about calls coming in now re: suspicious circumstances, not the roommates: (BBM)

“
As of Sunday, Moscow Police Department has seen an uptick in calls from people reporting "unusual circumstances" or requesting welfare checks on loved ones in the weeks since four University of Idaho students were discovered murdered on November 13. Police have received 78 calls for unusual circumstances and 36 requests that police perform a welfare check – up from the 70 and 18, respectively, they received during October as a whole, the department said in a Sunday press release.

Police are also sounding the alarm on a trend in which the callers are notifying their friends or family before phoning officers to respond, authorities said. “

I totally understand why the girls downstairs called their friends first.

If they heard some commotion upstairs and then silence in the morning, given that it was a party house, they probably thought, drunk or OD. You don’t call the police because it is Idaho with strict drug laws. Also, some of the girls were 21, adults, but E was 20. The career of the 21 year-old, X, would be ruined because of legalities.

So I understand the girls downstairs calling their friends first, to check on the upstairs floor. I think they didn’t suspect murders at all.

 

[samiam33]

I would like to know where and what each was doing from like 4-9? As well as what time the game was and if they attended. I don’t believe the dance was that day but could be wrong as I’ve seen and heard different days.
Also if E was in the hall after hearing something and the killer appeared with a knife wouldn’t there have been quite a struggle? To me it suggests the killer very strong and possibly big. Or is a person with a knife able to overtake someone right away?

Could E have been stabbed before exiting the room? Do we know if he was stabbed outside of the room or could he have been stabbed in bed and then made his way to the hall, either while the killer was there or after the killer left?

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

JMO but I don’t think the killer committed suicide. If he killed one person, he might feel remorse and guilt, but 4? I think he liked it. He liked it so much he was frenzied and brutal…overkill. As for motive? Bat sh-t crazy. Might have heard voices; might have been passing judgment and judged them unworthy. Might have been challenging himself to see if he could be a special forces member. Might be a gang initiation. Might have thought they were part of an alien invasion. Might have issues and stopped taking his meds. Might have been revenge for something that happened to a loved one. Might have been a religious fanatic looking to prove his faith. Might have just been evicted and lost his job and flunked out of school. Might have been rescuing them from a brutal world… MOO? Bat-sh-t crazy. No sane reason. Profile might be interesting after an arrest but no two profilers have the same theory. LE will have to follow the evidence and pray it gives them a direction to look. MOO

Agree: I don’t think he’s killed himself, either. I think he’s enjoying reliving his “success.”

 

[newredtabby]

Good point. I presumed that the suspect, which I believe to be a male student with a hunting license, was close to the victims and attended the same university. I'll factor this into my search and follow up with new data once I find it.

Why do you think it's a student, and why do you think the killer had a hunting license?

 

[isabella88]

I totally understand why the girls downstairs called their friends first.

If they heard some commotion upstairs and then silence in the morning, given that it was a party house, they probably thought, drunk or OD. You don’t call the police because it is Idaho with strict drug laws. Also, some of the girls were 21, adults, but E was 20. The career of the 21 year-old, X, would be ruined because of legalities.

So I understand the girls downstairs calling their friends first, to check on the upstairs floor. I think they didn’t suspect murders at all.

I agree with you. Even though all roommates are technically adults, we all say "college kids" for a reason. Cops are terrifying to college kids drinking and/or more. When I was in college, I was overdosing at a friend's house and he wouldn't let my brother call for help for fear of getting in trouble. Considering this was considered "a party house" I can see why the paranoia may have set in -- as long as the survivors had not seen the gruesome scene. Then I don't know what to say. MOO

 

[uburoi1]

This is the 'best' case WS has featured in many years. It (regrettably) has everything -- including no solution readily at hand.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Thought it would be interesting to see how many different "profiles" the paid professionals are coming up with. Keep in mind they DO NOT have the data LE has. They are working with the same info we have but have their knowledge and experience.

1. Incel theory - Carole Lieberman (Forensic Psychiatrist)

Idaho students' killer may be an "incel" who felt rejected—psychiatrist

Police have not yet identified a suspect in the killings of four University of Idaho students who were found dead in their beds on November 13.

www.newsweek.com

Forensic psychiatrist Carole Lieberman said she is confident the slayings were not a random attack or the work of a serial killer. The "multiple stabbings and bloody mess are signs that it was personal and that the killer was enraged," Lieberman told Newsweek.

• Personal
• Enraged
• Not random or serial
• Felt rejected or would be suitor

2. Young & knew at least one victim - Jim Clemente (Former FBI profiler)

Former FBI profiler thinks University of Idaho killer is a ‘young man’ students ‘knew’

The murderer who ruthlessly slaughtered four University of Idaho students is likely a “younger” man and a first-time killer, famed former FBI profiler Jim Clemente said.

nypost.com

The murderer who ruthlessly slaughtered four University of Idaho students is likely a “younger” man and a first-time killer, famed former FBI profiler Jim Clemente said.

Clemente, a criminal behavioral expert and former New York State prosecutor, believes the person who killed Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Ethan Chapin, 20, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Madison Mogen, 21 on Nov. 13 likely knew at least one of the victims.

• Young
• Comfortable with blood
• First-time killer
• Lives in the area
• Doesn't mind "wet work" and profession will say the same

And here: Idaho college killer likely a stalker or knew students, ex-FBI profiler says he says this:

• Stalker
• Not Sophisticated criminally or forensically

3. Potential Serial Killer -Dr. Casey Jordan (criminologist, behavior analyst, attorney)

Criminal Profiler Weighs in on the University of Idaho Murders

Could Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle have been killed by a serial killer? Criminal profiler Dr. Casey Jordan says it's possible.

www.insideedition.com

You could have somebody who is a potential serial killer who has been thinking about doing this for a very long time,” he tells Inside Edition. “If the fantasy was fulfilled, then the fantasy will bloom even larger and very often, we will find a perp who feels compelled to do it again.”

But Jordan says another, and perhaps stronger, possibility is that the victims were acquaintances with their killer.

• Potential Serial Killer
• Acquaintances w/ killer
• From the community
• In the house before

4. Instrumental Violence-Mary Ellen O'Toole (Retired agent and profiler FBI)

Paraphrasing interview: Targeted has meaning. Equal targets or not?

• Not evidence conscious
• Likely cut themselves and left DNA evidence
• Likely been in the home prior
• Prior experience being in other people's homes
• Had to be a sturdy knife
• Up close and personal
• Sloppy crime scene but efficient with knife means experienced
• Doubtful the knife was tossed
• The knife has been used before but not necessarily in a murder
• Instrumental not reactive violence
• cold-blooded, predatory, callous violence perpetrated frequently on strangers
• Psychopathic individuals lacking empathy and guilt commit high-risk crimes b/c they enjoy the crime
• Believes there is a threat to the community
• High risk for reoffending

5. Young male -Jonathan Gilliam (Former FBI Special Agent)

• Young male
• One, not two killers
• Could get in and out w/ out being seen
• Entered the second floor
• Not the first time this person did this
• Adrenaline filled incident
• Odd or manacing behavior toward people close to him
• Typically a killing like this is not the first kill unless in the family environment (which this is not)
• Sees this as an escalation
• 3-hour travel distance this person probably lives

6. Copycat killer - Bill Warner - (Private Detective)

University of Idaho students killer ‘is behind at least 2 more murders’, says PI

THE University of Idaho students’ murderer may be responsible for at least two other deaths, following in serial killer Ted Bundy’s footsteps, a private investigator has claimed. ItR…

www.the-sun.com

Bill Warner, a private detective from Sarasota, Florida, called the murderer a "copy cat serial killer" after tracing down the same killing spree pattern as the infamous Ted Bundy murders.

"Current trail of unsolved murders in Washington, Oregon, and Moscow Idaho mimics trail of murders committed by serial killer Ted Bundy in 1970's," he said.

Bundy "appears to have started his murder spree in Feb 1974 in Washington, then May 1974 in Oregon and then May 1975 in Idaho and then many, many more, he was just getting started," Warner explained.

He added: "No coincidence when the same exact geographic path used by serial killer Ted Bundy in 1970's mimicked by current copy cat serial killer murders in Washington, Oregon and the case in Moscow Idaho, three for three."
Early 30's

• Above Avg. height
• Fighting Skills
• Powerful build
• Martial arts training

7. Targeted & In their orbit-Bill Daly (Former FBI Investigator)

Former FBI investigator's chilling theory into Idaho quadruple murder

Former FBI investigator Bill Daly told Fox News that he believes the Idaho quadruple murders was a targeted attack and that someone in the slain college students' orbit caused it to happen.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A former FBI investigator said he believes that the Idaho quadruple murders were a targeted attack and that someone in the slain college students' 'orbit' caused it to happen.

Idaho murder suspect likely someone out of the students’ social ‘orbit’: Bill Daly | Fox News Video

Former FBI investigator Bill Daly provides expert analysis of the four University of Idaho students who were mysteriously murdered two weeks ago today on ‘Fox & Friends Weekend.’

www.foxnews.com

• Two unharmed people
• Would have to know the home
• Not mass murderer rampage b/c others downstairs unharmed
• Think LE have more than we are aware
• DNA & Fingerprints are only good if they have something to compare to right now, but great later

8. In their Circle - Nancy Grace

Nancy Grace: Idaho College Killer In ‘One of the Victims’ Circles’

CrimeOnline’s Nancy Grace isn’t concerned that police in Idaho haven’t named a suspect or found a weapon in the gruesome murders of four University of Idaho students two weeks ago. She told Fox News that she “doesn’t agree” with online comments that police don’t know what they’re doing. “Anybody...

www.crimeonline.com

• Someone in their circle
• No connection w/ person that called it in

9. Someone knew the house-Brad Garrett (Former FBI)

Idaho college murders: Investigators should 'broaden their search' after new details revealed

"You're going to have to start spreading out to people they had just a casual relationship with," former FBI agent Brad Garrett said.

abc7ny.com

"It tells me that someone came into the house with a comfort level -- that they probably knew their way around the house," Garrett said.

Garrett said investigators should be broadening their search outside the victims' immediate circle of friends and family.

"You're going to have to start spreading out to people they had just a casual relationship with," he said.

• Someone knew the house

10. Likely Female -Rodney Demery - (Former homicide detective-podcaster "murder chose me")

Is Idaho killer possibly a woman? | Banfield

#MurderChoseMe host and former homicide detective Rodney Demery believes it's "very likely" a woman is behind the murder of four college students in Idaho. "I think it was someone that had a rage, a certain passion, to create such violence," Demery says. #Banfield

www.newsnationnow.com

ormer homicide detective Rodney Demery believes it's "very likely" a woman is behind the murder of four college students in Idaho. "I think it was someone that had a rage, a certain passion, to create such violence," Demery says.

• 7% female mass murderers
• Passion
• Rage
• Same-sex relationship

11. Not Serial Killer - Mark Furhman -(Former LAPD Detective & lives in Idaho)

Mark Fuhrman: Idaho investigators have 'stayed on point'

Former LAPD detective Mark Fuhrman joins 'Jesse Watters Primetime' to give his take on the latest in the Idaho murders investigation.

www.foxnews.com

Mark Fuhrman on Idaho murders: 'A knife is a weapon of rage' | Fox News Video

Retired LAPD detective and Fox News contributor Mark Fuhrman reveals his takeaways from the quadruple murder investigation and his conversations with University of Idaho students.

www.foxnews.com

• Not a serial killer
• Targeted crime
• Killer sought out and knows one or more of the victims
• Knife is a weapon of rage
• Should be able to find the order of killings, height, footprint, right or left-handed from blood spatter analysis
• Should be able to get blood type even if DNA is not in the system

 

[isabella88]

Could E have been stabbed before exiting the room? Do we know if he was stabbed outside of the room or could he have been stabbed in bed and then made his way to the hall, either while the killer was there or after the killer left?

Perhaps he was attacked while opening the door to check things out and somehow ended up falling back on the bed. Or the killer could have heard something in the room Ethan was in and struck. Although I doubt the latter. JMO

 

[isabella88]

Thought it would be interesting to see how many different "profiles" the paid professionals are coming up with. Keep in mind they DO NOT have the data LE has. They are working with the same info we have but have their knowledge and experience.

Can I just tell you how awesome your post is? Thank you!

 

[Charlot123]

One more thing. I may even post pictures later. If the house is built considering the terrain (many houses in PNW are), then what is “ground floor” from the entrance may be 2nd floor in the back, or vise versa. I recently walked into the house where I thought there was a ground and a 2nd floor. That they had what you’d call basement floor from the face and ground floor from the back I totally missed until I saw the back of the house and it happened much later.

What I think, this killer is the person who is used to seeing the house from one side, the one where the basement is not seen. JMO. That person was unaware of the basement floor. I don’t think he’d care about the girls in the basement. I don’t think he looked at the floor plans.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The fact that they were looking for camera info from 95 specifically could maybe be they are trying to confirm an alibi?

Hope they are checking camera and gas station vids from the 95 going north and south.

 

[gliving]

To me, this is the most interesting comment from the article:

'You can't lay all your cards out at once. We're trying to find the various potential participants."

Yeah, this does sound like they are looking at more than one perp being involved. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Friday Fan]

Now I'm back to "blood oozing out of the house"...

What if it wasn't blood?

Why? Maybe blood "wasn't all over the place"...
The oozing blood makes it look like the worst crime scene ever, but if it wasn't blood, maybe there wasn't "blood all over the place".

It changes things.....
It changes where E and X could have been sleeping.

What if they were actually in the larger bedroom instead of the "oozing blood bedroom"?

It also changes their roommates reaction to the crime scene.

Now I want to know if it is really blood or was it some "creative liberties by the DM"???

ETA: Dead people don't bleed!

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I'm really curious about the ring camera, seems only Kaylee's sister knows about it and nobody else can find it. I watched a very thorough video of someone walking around that area and they couldn't locate a camera.

I’m confident LE has it. IMHO, the owner may have been understandably willing to show it to K’s sister before turning it over to LE (in some ways, the investigation seems to have gotten off to a slower start, moo) & has since kept quiet to protect the investigation whether or not anything else of interest was captured. Moo.