Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

[DeDee]

I am leaning toward him using the gun as a kidnapping tool. We know he points it and then says GDTH. I questioned earlier why we're not hearing about shots being fired from witnesses.

I've come to the conclusion that there were none. As I said, I believe the gun was to threaten them to get them DTH so he could... do stuff to them. We know there was a lot of blood at the scene. Since there's been talk of a knife in both RLs PC, and RMA's as well... I think he used the knife to kill them. It's quiet (except for screaming) and likely why his clothing was bloody (frontal spray).

Their lack of screaming has always troubled me. If the CS is bloody and RA was bloody, why would RL describe the crime scene as being "pristine?"

What I don't like about where my mind is going with this is if there was no sign of a struggle or a fight, and their clothing was removed, is that he killed them first, and then did whatever perverse thing(s) he did.

Perhaps, he forced the girls to undress themselves or that is how I've always viewed the activities to be. I think this action may have happened closer to the water's edge below Logan's land. It explains the clothing found in the Creek the next day.

Because I can't imagine them not struggling < RSBMFF > I'd have thought they'd have fought or run. I know I would have. With all that said... this just came to me. Perhaps the gun is what kept them from running off. It's all so very sad.

Pointing a loaded gun at my best friend and warning me not to move and not to scream or they'll be shot; may be enough to get my cooperation for I couldn't allow myself to be the reason my friend died that day.

< RSBM for it was already addressed by them following his instructions - maybe undressing themselves at his behest. > I think their deaths were quick once he got them down the hill (and why no signs of a struggle), then removed their clothing and did whatever he did before getting the heck out of dodge before someone saw him. What a disgusting human being.

In the PCA, doesn't it state that a witness saw RA around 3:57pm on the Hwy? If true, he lingered at the CS area, perhaps filming parts of his horrendous crimes. I suspect he hung around absorbing his handiwork for a while because he is, indeed, a disgusting human.

 

[TxMother67]

I'll be shocked if they find zero evidence in his vehicle.

If he's "our guy", he had to be covered in... evidence that transfered to the exterior door handle, interior door handle, steering wheel, gear shift, seatbelt & buckle, window control, rearview mirror, seat & car floor. And probably 10 other places I didn't even think of, that he would have come into contact with the outside and the inside of the car.

I agree it's not at all likely he's cleaned all traces.

Same.

 

[NLM1234]

I think that you need to have both the unspent shell and the gun in order to conduct a forensic match.

Sorry--unspent round rather than unspent shell.

 

[twall]

By the way, if anyone wonders the location of Hoosier Harvestore, 6563 W 300 N, Delphi, mentioned in the Affidavit of Probable Cause, whose security camera captured various vehicles of the accused and of witnesses, on the day of the murders, below is a diagram showing the location from Google Maps, in relation to the crime scene, the Monan High Bridge, and the Delphi Cemetery,

View attachment 383624

Where was the CPS building?

 

[LeBlack]

Bullet marking explanation.

 

[Trebor5591]

So they arrest KK for child exploitation in Indiana this summer after tracing him to a fake profile of a young male that communicated with the Delphi victims the day before the murders, then shortly afterwards drop some charges against him, and within a week or two RA is arrested for the murders. Has anyone considered KK and RA are connected in an exploitation ring, and were complicit in luring the girls to the bridge in 2017? Seems improbable that RA just happened to be on the bridge that day. They didn’t miss him for 5 years. They probably built a case against the ring and RA was given up by his accomplice.

I can see people who don't know each other trading CP on the internet via dropboxes or email accounts using anonymous names, etc. I can not see those same people trusting each other enough to attempt to coordinate and kidnap two girls for purposes of trafficking them. Girls who are trafficked are usually runaways from what I hear. My opinion only.

 

[LammyTheRobot]

Gratitude to the Mods here who must be having a hell of a time with this case. Thanks for keeping all of our excesses in check - including mine!

 

[SkyBoomer]

So they arrest KK for child exploitation in Indiana this summer after tracing him to a fake profile of a young male that communicated with the Delphi victims the day before the murders, then shortly afterwards drop some charges against him, and within a week or two RA is arrested for the murders. Has anyone considered KK and RA are connected in an exploitation ring, and were complicit in luring the girls to the bridge in 2017? Seems improbable that RA just happened to be on the bridge that day. They didn’t miss him for 5 years. They probably built a case against the ring and RA was given up by his accomplice.

KK was arrested in 2017, wasn’t he? Now I am unsure.

 

[mom2chloe]

My husband suggested that it was in the gun and perhaps the gun jammed. In clearing it, the cartridge would be unspent but marked.

My hubby agrees this is a possibility but would need to know if the primer was dimpled as it does happen sometimes. Great husbands think alike and sometimes I value their input and opinion’s especially with this case.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Interesting that the information was released. As it should have been, there doesn't seem to be anything unusual in this document that merited the drama of the secrecy.

So, if RA hadn't been such an idiot and tossed the gun, jacket, he would be off the hook?

I couldn’t agree more. How can someone be so dumb or rather that dumb and still be breathing is almost unbelievable to me.
However just one thought, perhaps he kept those things as his trophies in addition to the other trophies?

Idk. Just thinking out loud.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

KK was arrested in 2017, wasn’t he? Now I am unsure.

If I’m remembering correctly he wasn’t arrested until 2020. However there was a search warrant and he was brought in for questioning in 2017.

Moo

 

[Yvettea]

One of the witnesses quoted in the PCA says “the man was in all black and had something covering his mouth. […] She said he couldn’t have been taller than 5’10. He was wearing a black hoodie, black jeans, and black boots.”

That’s reasonable doubt is it not? McLeland and Diener should - IMO - find alternative careers.

Reason enough to be looking for another perpetrator. MOO

 

[SkyBoomer]

If I’m remembering correctly he wasn’t arrested until 2020. However there was a search warrant and he was brought in for questioning in 2017.

Moo

Thank you!

 

[Alethea]

I can't believe we got lectured about The Shack with FBI billboards across the country and no one thought to ask all of the middle aged men on the bridge at 2:15pm if they had guns at home to potentially match to the bullet at the scene?

 

[flashy09]

This is exactly what stuck out to me. At the new direction PC, LE specifically asked for information about the driver of the vehicle that was parked at the CPS building. They also mentioned that they had likely talked to or previously interviewed the perp. If RA had already talked to LE and divulged that he was parked at the CPS building, which it seems that he had, it certainly seems that RA may have known that LE was talking directly to him.

I have edited to respond just to the first paragraph. I am sure RA knew. How LE didn't though? RA called it the farm bureau building. So not *exactly* the same thing, but not hard to figure out. I am thinking this article really should be taken at face value. Like literally face value. It would explain a lot about the PCA. "Allen’s statement was forgotten until recently when Indiana State Police became frustrated with the status of the Delphi investigation..."

Source: Investigators have known for years that the Delphi suspect was on the Monon High Bridge the day Abby and Libby were killed

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — Richard Allen, the man arrested in the 2017 double murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German near Delphi, told a state conservation officer he was in the area on the day of the killings, but his report may have been considered unfounded, a police source tells I-Team 8...

www.wishtv.com

]

I think there will be lots more to come now that RA is in custody and DNA testing of relevant items is happening. I also don't doubt there is more known than the PCA alludes to. But it is hard to figure out how this didn't happen a long time ago with the information the public has!

 

[NutterButter1000]

If I’m remembering correctly he wasn’t arrested until 2020. However there was a search warrant and he was brought in for questioning in 2017.

If I’m remembering correctly he wasn’t arrested until 2020. However there was a search warrant and he was brought in for questioning in 2017.

Moo

There’s an interview made public this summer whereby ISP placed the person behind the profile to be the last one to communicate with the victims before their murder. Shortly after the interview, charges were dropped and RA was arrested.

 

[MntnHiker]

Just catching up on all of this and....wow. I am shocked they talked to him in 2017 and he admitted being on the trails at that time, looked (IMO) like BG, and has just been wandering free these last 5+ years. I bet after a few months had gone by after the murders, RA really felt he was home free. Maybe even got comfortable. Continued living and working in the community. Wow, quite disturbing.

 

[CrimeDawg123]

I can't believe we got lectured about The Shack with FBI billboards across the country and no one thought to ask all of the middle aged men on the bridge at 2:15pm if they had guns at home to potentially match to the bullet at the scene?

Exactly. And I'm even more sick now about what poor Mr. Logan went through.

 

[TL4S]

I guess I'm a little unclear on what RA told LE back in Feb. 2017 vs what he told them in Oct. 2022. He was interviewed twice, so I'm not sure what details he told them early on. Maybe some of what we're discussing was what he told them more recently? I'd like to see the PCA for his house search.

 

[zencompass]

Sorry if this has been mentioned I’m struggling to catch up. Wondering why in the probable cause affidavit it made mention of the jacket a few times and no mention of it being tested or it containing any dna evidence.

Does the absence of this mean they didn’t find anything? Or if they did are they likely to keep this private and not contain it in the affidavit?

Dear @Chestnutsunfish,

Thank you for your insightful, informative and greatly compassionate posts.

The testing of the jacket and the car for DNA of Abby and Libby will all come out in the evidence presented at trial.

With blood mingled with water on his clothes, the chances of any (even miniscule) drops of blood will be found in the car, (the side of the seat, the back of the seat, anything in that area that he touched or sat on his clothes brushed against) will light up with luminol.

Every single piece of material from that car seat as well as the floor of the car will be scrutinized and tested for DNA. Car handles, plastic -everything will be tested.

With all of the advances in DNA testing - especially since 2017 - leads me to believe that Abby and Libby's DNA will be discovered in the car.

I expect the DNA evidence at the trial to be fascinating.

JMO