Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

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None of the arguments work for me. One very objective guy wrote down the information without analyzing what he was recording fully intending to pass on the information to an investigator. (He didn’t analyze it at all - above his pay grade). Somehow the information was lost, not analyzed. MOO
 
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Well life happened and I had to skip several pages in the new thread. I hate that I did that but I am marking my spot. My thoughts right now are the PCA is just the bare bones of what LE needed for an arrest. They surely have more evidence and will probably get more. The CO that talked to RA in the beginning more than likely had very little involvement in the investigation going forward. More than likely RA approached him to cover his tracks about being there and since he said he didn’t see anything that info became lost in the stack of other information. Investigators early on may have glossed over it since I doubt the CO stated or asked what RA was wearing and did not include a description of RA. The one question I have is was the car that LE took last month black or silver? Do we know if this was the same car RA was driving in 2017. I don’t think a gun was fired during the murders. I can see why RA may not have gotten rid of the gun but surely he would get rid of his clothes. Could he be that stupid? Jmho
 
Alethea said:
I can't believe we got lectured about The Shack with FBI billboards across the country and no one thought to ask all of the middle aged men on the bridge at 2:15pm if they had guns at home to potentially match to the bullet at the scene?
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Those episodes were among the lowlights of my sporadic career here in following cases -- genuinely baffling, and I remember a mate who read an article over here that mentioned it wondering at how theatrical and bombastic a spectacle it seemed to be.

The Shack turned out to be a well-maintained Anywhere house plunk in the centre of LE's sightlines for the years this took to solve. And RA appears to be signally untroubled by the wrackings of a religious conscience. Argh.

OTOH, I expect them to have some detailed and significant evidence to add to the pile for the trial portions of this case. And perhaps after conviction there will be a long and fruitful series of teachable moments to positively impact future investigations.
 
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zencompass said:
Dear @Chestnutsunfish,

Thank you for your insightful and greatly compassionate posts.

The testing of the jacket and the car for DNA of Abby and Libby will all come out in the evidence presented at trial.

With blood mingled with water on his clothes, the chances of any (even miniscule) drops of blood will be found in the car, (the side of the seat, the back of the seat, anything in that area that he touched or sat on his clothes brushed against) will light up with luminol.

Every single piece of material from that car seat as well as the floor of the car will be scrutinized and tested for DNA. Car handles, plastic -everything will be tested.

With all of the advances in DNA testing - especially since 2017 - leads me to believe that Abby and Libby's DNA will be discovered in the car.

I expect the DNA evidence at the trial to be fascinating.

JMO
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Does he still own the car he parked at the old CPS building? I cannot remember the type of car that they towed from his home. I guess even if it now belongs to someone else, they can still look for evidence inside the car.
 
IMO, in the affidavit, Victim 2 is Libby, because in the below section (page 2 of 8) of the affidavit Victim 2 (Libby) takes a video of Victim 1 (Abby) walking across the bridge while the Bridge Guy is walking up behind her:

1669772754334.png
 
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Yvettea said:
None of the arguments work for me. One very objective guy wrote down the information without analyzing what he was recording fully intending to pass on the information to an investigator. (He didn’t analyze it at all - above his pay grade). Somehow the information was lost, not analyzed. MOO
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I tend to agree with you except I wonder if in the beginning there was LE assigned to interview potential witnesses and LE assigned to interview potential suspects. Or, actually in this case, just so many both of witnesses and potential suspects that there were multiple groups, teams, or individual LE that interviewed them all but never shared notes.

The more information that gets released, the weirder this case seems to get...
 
NLM1234 said:
Does he still own the car he parked at the old CPS building? I cannot remember the type of car that they towed from his home. I guess even if it now belongs to someone else, they can still look for evidence inside the car.
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It was a 2016 Ford Focus, the same vehicle towed when they served the search warrant.
 
In my opinion, the "M-Vac" was one of the tools used by F.B.I. after they picked up R.A.s vehicle

There will be no explaining how Libby and/or Abby's DNA is found from testing in R.A.'s car.

This appears like other cases solved where the victims' DNA was found in the killer's car - and not the killer's DNA at the crime scene.


JMO


This news article is from 2019. Since then, the F.B.I. has used the "M-Vac" extensively.



Excerpts:

"The M-Vac, short for microbial vacuum, sprays a sterile solution on a small area and then sucks, creating a “mini-hurricane” to extract skin cells or dried fluids that may lie below the surface of a piece of clothing, a car seat or taped-up package of cocaine. The recovered solution is poured through a filter that captures biological material containing DNA. Bardole has even soaked items such as bullet casings in the sterile solution, filtering the resulting samples and identifying the DNA of shooters."

"The FBI is testing the M-Vac, and in a first round of results published this month, the agency found it to be far more effective in extracting DNA from rough services such as pressure-treated wood and plywood and 47 times more effective on automotive carpet
 
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Wondering if anyone thinks the guy dressed in all black is flannel shirt guy? Obviously if RA was seen leaving looking muddy and bloody he certainly didn’t change clothes. I hope he kept the knife and the coat and boots he wore. He is such an idiot among many other things. IMO
 
Am I correct in understanding his wife was interviewed/questioned at the time following RA’s statement? Or was this post-arrest?
 
bigredkangaroo said:
I tend to agree with you except I wonder if in the beginning there was LE assigned to interview potential witnesses and LE assigned to interview potential suspects. Or, actually in this case, just so many both of witnesses and potential suspects that there were multiple groups, teams, or individual LE that interviewed them all but never shared notes.

The more information that gets released, the weirder this case seems to get...
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Ok such incompetence in a tiny local police force, fine, but the FBI and US Marshal Service were also involved in the investigation. What the heck did they do exactly??!!
 
zencompass said:
In my opinion, the "M-Vac" was one of the tools used by F.B.I. after they picked up R.A.s vehicle

There will be no explaining how Libby and/or Abby's DNA is found from testing in R.A.'s car.

Just my own opinion.


This news article is from 2019. Since then, the F.B.I. has used the "M-Vac" extensively.



Excerpts:

"The M-Vac, short for microbial vacuum, sprays a sterile solution on a small area and then sucks, creating a “mini-hurricane” to extract skin cells or dried fluids that may lie below the surface of a piece of clothing, a car seat or taped-up package of cocaine. The recovered solution is poured through a filter that captures biological material containing DNA. Bardole has even soaked items such as bullet casings in the sterile solution, filtering the resulting samples and identifying the DNA of shooters."

"The FBI is testing the M-Vac, and in a first round of results published this month, the agency found it to be far more effective in extracting DNA from rough services such as pressure-treated wood and plywood and 47 times more effective on automotive carpet
Click to expand...
This has been used to solve an 18 year old murder by collecting touch DNA from a large rock used as a murder weapon. Amazed they saved the rock. MOO M-Vac Systems DNA collection device helps solve 18 yr old Beslanowitch case | M-Vac Systems, Inc
 
Having to play devil’s advocate against myself for a minute.

Let’s say it was RA who was the killer? A Sig Sauer 40mm brand new is over $1,000. Serious piece of equipment. Maybe - as to motive - he could have been a gun for hire? And maybe, gosh darn it, KAK was the client, for obvious reasons. I don’t know… it’s a stretch. As I said, devil’s advocate.

Removing an IMEI number from a phone requires fairly technical knowledge. It’s unusual.
 
mom2chloe said:
Wondering if anyone thinks the guy dressed in all black is flannel shirt guy? Obviously if RA was seen leaving looking muddy and bloody he certainly didn’t change clothes. I hope he kept the knife and the coat and boots he wore. He is such an idiot among many other things. IMO
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I would be interested in how far away each witness was. If the suspect was wearing a dark blue jacket, in the shade or far away it could look black. In bright sunlight it would look lighter.

I read it to mean all three people saw the same person but gave slightly different clothing descriptions based on their memory.
 
Im in utter shock after seeing this PCA. So, this guy who fits the description, TELLS LE HE WAS THERE in 2017, and it takes all these years to go huh maybe we should look again at this dude. I'm always very very supportive of LE but all of this stinks of incompetence. I hope theres more to this and I'll eat my words though...
 
LeBlack said:
This has been used to solve an 18 year old murder by collecting touch DNA from a large rock used as a murder weapon. Amazed they saved the rock. MOO M-Vac Systems DNA collection device helps solve 18 yr old Beslanowitch case | M-Vac Systems, Inc
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Dear @LeBlack,

It was from your posts years ago, where I first learned of M-Vac !

From the information you posted, I researched more about M-Vac.

But I would never had known of it without your posts with the M-Vac information!

So thank you for always providing insightful and informative posts! Greatly appreciated!
 
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zencompass said:
In my opinion, the "M-Vac" was one of the tools used by F.B.I. after they picked up R.A.s vehicle

There will be no explaining how Libby and/or Abby's DNA is found from testing in R.A.'s car.

This appears like other cases solved where the victims' DNA was found in the killer's car - and not the killer's DNA at the crime scene.


JMO


This news article is from 2019. Since then, the F.B.I. has used the "M-Vac" extensively.



Excerpts:

"The M-Vac, short for microbial vacuum, sprays a sterile solution on a small area and then sucks, creating a “mini-hurricane” to extract skin cells or dried fluids that may lie below the surface of a piece of clothing, a car seat or taped-up package of cocaine. The recovered solution is poured through a filter that captures biological material containing DNA. Bardole has even soaked items such as bullet casings in the sterile solution, filtering the resulting samples and identifying the DNA of shooters."

"The FBI is testing the M-Vac, and in a first round of results published this month, the agency found it to be far more effective in extracting DNA from rough services such as pressure-treated wood and plywood and 47 times more effective on automotive carpet
Click to expand...

I was just reading about this technology recently -- it def seems highly effective, but is it not also quite destructive of the materials it saturates and draws DNA from?

I seem to recall that in at least one case -- maybe West Memphis 3? -- it was ruled out as a means for retrieving DNA because it was "consumptive" in its mechanism of action.
 
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