ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 16

[katydid23]

Did someone state that they believed the murders where quick and little time for pain ? Then, the suspect was skilled, knew exactly how they would commit the murders without startling the others.

I was thinking about that. If I was being held captive, broke free and only had a knife available to me, while captor was sleeping, and I needed to kill him without waking up his friends upstairs----I don't know where I would even begin? I have no idea how I would quietly and immediately do a quick job of him, while keeping him quiet and defenceless.

How did this perp do it 4 times? I do think he had to have had some experience.

 

[Saquish]

If the killer left the house with a bag of bloody cloths or a bloody knife, wouldn’t the dogs have tracked that scent in a direction around the house?

 

[Saquish]

I was thinking about that. If I was being held captive, broke free and only had a knife available to me, while captor was sleeping, and I needed to kill him without waking up his friends upstairs----I don't know where I would even begin? I have no idea how I would quietly and immediately do a quick job of him, while keeping him quiet and defenceless.

How did this perp do it 4 times? I do think he had to have had some experience.

the military trains in hand to hand knife combat. also how to take out enemies in their sleep.

 

[Friday Fan]

If the killer left the house with a bag of bloody cloths or a bloody knife, wouldn’t the dogs have tracked that scent in a direction around the house?

Maybe...But we haven't been given that info

Even if the dog tracks, it may not be very helpful.
I think they were using the dog to search for evidence. (the knife in particular)
I don't believe the knife was found

I don't know if they found any discarded evidence...
Just tracking via bloodhound doesn't get very far if it doesn't lead to anything..

Heck, I don't know if the dogs even tracked the killer's scent off the property.

 

[JSTANOVICE]

Anything Change Been Away for A few Hours…

 

[everybodhi]

MOO:

The FBI might have the ability to analyze a large collection of cell phone data to determine if a particular cell phone was present at a certain location and then present later at the murder scene.

For example: all of he cell phones that were present in the bar that two victims were at earlier in evening could be determined, then the data from all of those phones looked at to see if one of these phones was also found to be present at or near the murder scene later in evening.

There would need to be a massive amount of analysis of cell phone location data. John Miller on CNN earlier in week had mentioned this as a possible effort that a special unit of the FBI would be able to undertake.

Geo tracking is widely used by police even though there are some civil liberties/4th amendment issues.
Tracking Phones, Google Is a Dragnet for the Police The tech giant records people’s locations worldwide. Now, investigators are using it to find suspects and witnesses near crimes, running the risk of snaring the innocent.
“Technology companies have for years responded to court orders for specific users’ information. The new warrants go further, suggesting possible suspects and witnesses in the absence of other clues. Often, Google employees said, the company responds to a single warrant with location information on dozens or hundreds of devices.”

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

No, there will be one vigil and two additional events:

There'll be an event at University of Idaho's Boise campus on Wednesday at 6 p.m. MST to be in sync with the Moscow vigil. This event will be in front of the University of Idaho Water Center at the corner of Front Street and S. Broadway Avenue.


U of I Idaho Falls, Idaho State University and College of Eastern Idaho will have an event also Wednesday at 6 p.m. MST. They will be in the cafeteria located in Building Three on the College of Eastern Idaho campus, 1600 S. 25th E., Idaho Falls.

UPDATE & OPEN INVITATION!

There are actual several vigils/events around the state, as listed at the link below.

UI President Green also issued this invitation:
“All other locations: Please join us from where you are, individually or as a group, to help us light up Idaho. Light a candle, turn on stadium lights, or hold a moment of silence with us as we unite on campus.”

In Memory of Xana, Madison, Kaylee and Ethan

I personally invite any of you so inclined to join us from afar in honoring these four bright young students.

With Love & Appreciation

 

[cottonweaver]

(Quotation edited for focus.) You aren't the first to mention "family annihilator" killers. I don't doubt the crime scene looked similar in the Moscow murders.

But I thought the usual motivation for "family annihilation" was a feeling by the killer that the family in question can't survive or can't prosper without him. I wouldn't think anyone would feel that for a handful of college roommates who were expected to rent temporarily and then go on their way.

sorry I didn't have the time to go through 16 threads of past posts and I hadn't heard that mentioned anywhere in the msm shows I did watch on this crime

Anyway, afaik - from past cases - the motivations aren't limited to some kind of twisted altruism.
eg the most infamous, recent case you'll all be aware of is Chris Watts.
You've got a range within that crime type - so, some perps do not commit suicide at the same time.

Anyway, after Bill Thompson, Prosecutor comments tonight it looks like this comparison is redundant. Unless Thompson has it wrong or misspoke, it now appears that LE believe that there's no personal connection or prior relationship between perp & any of the victims.

Feels like we're now back where we started when we first heard about this case - psycho creeper type.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Can’t it just simply mean “hey we know this person is in her room but she’s not answering any of us”. Maybe we are overthinking. Maybe they actually saw nothing.

That would be entered as a Welfare Check.

At least here in MPD DALs.

 

[archisleuth]

Whether you have or have not been following Brian Entin’s reporting, I highly recommmend tonight’s episode of Banfield on NewsNation. There has been talk on here about some of the info from Brian’s interviews today. They really dig into some of the holes and questions we’ve all had.

One of the bigger surprises is that it sounds like LE doesn’t actually know the whereabouts of X + E during the gap in their timeline and they are looking for more information. Surprised they haven’t more specifically ask for the public’s help with that. It’s a head scratcher. Here’s a clip of the portion where they discuss the gap:

Police timeline: 5-hour gap in Idaho victims' movements | Banfield

 

[katydid23]

I see. But you were implying it?
Or it was a potential theory?
Anything goes at this point. Although I personally don't think it was random.

I know of a few home invasion/murders where the killer chose the victims by scoping out the house first. Israel Keyes bragged about doing so---he'd scope out neighbourhoods and find homes with the 'right' layouts for him to have easy, unseen entry options, with no neighbors close by.

Also, little Sierra was kidnapped by a brutal predator, who killed her entire family first. And he initially scoped out the house---noting it was set away from other homes, was one story, and was very close to the interstate for fast exit. He watched the children playing outside for quite awhile.

I think it is possible for a type of dwelling to be an easier target than others. If a predator was looking for some young attractive victims, it would make sense to focus on a college town and find some houses with all the necessary components to make his job easier. A dark place to secretly watch the inhabitants come and go, and many uncurtained windows to be able to see what is happening inside. And many accessible entry points and exits for quick escape. And no visible exterior cameras?

 

[AngTxGal]

If I lived in a house with a dog, and I was going to bed before the other people that lived there came home, I might bring the dog in my room so he wouldn't bark and wake me when others came in later.... but thinking about my dog, he didn't bark at people coming into the house with a key, or just walking in...he barked at the doorbell or at someone knocking.

How old is Ks labradoodle Murphy? In her TicTok he looks small, maybe less than a year?


imo

 

[jacquessleuthseau]

been lurking for awhile now, and felt compelled to chime in.

i've been really speculating about the use of the word "targeted" since the beginning and had a gut feeling it wasn't as compelling as LE has made one to think. i'm terrified that Prosecutor said today "residence was targeted, but they don’t have evidence of a specific individual being targeted." [See @BrianAntin on Twitter]........... If LE knew this before, withholding info and specifics like this can potentially be dangerous to the community IMO

The crime itself shows clear intent, knowledge of the property, etc. IMO I'd argue one cannot commit a quadruple murder, and it NOT be considered inherently targeted.. but LE using the phrase gave hope they had more insight into one's motivation to commit the crime....

re: a profile.. this was not a spur of the moment decision, but maybe a trigger set off someone known to victims with lots of emotion towards a dynamic, relationship, or connection.. IMO they were all familiar with one another in some way or another, the intimate nature of the crimes makes it hard to think otherwise IMO, and if so, is a sign of something much darker at play IMO... i think from the information provided by LE, the suspect has to be proficient in hunting, using knives and weapons, etc.. even with a messy crime scene (taking into account reports of it being a party house) you just dont commit this crime, with this weapon, without fairly proficient knowledge in weapons imo

the constant noise in the area mixed with dark areas late at night where one could slip through the darkness, makes this a confusing environment i think one could analyze and find a window where they'd feel comfortable to commit a crime like this. people are disoriented whether it's from partying in college, studying, daily life, their guard is down and they feel comfortable. if you've been to college i think one can attest to hearing roommates or friends loudly arguing, partying, etc and sleeping through it. it's what may have saved the surviving roommates, but unfortunately may lead to what makes finding a potential suspect so difficult.

IMO LE doesn't know much, 100 something pieces of evidence is not reassuring whatsover, especially for the scene described

Johnny Law's video detailing the house layout also helped me to put into perspective the space and what potentially took place, route, etc.

LE using the word targeted before made it seem as if the intent or route to different rooms, order of killings, was known. I'm not so sure now, it frightens me to think about what may have really taken place on this night. My heart breaks for the victims families. im fascinated and heartbroken by this case, I can't imagine what these families are going through, they deserve answers, justice, and mostly right now LOVE and RESPECT.

 

[CityKid]

It seems to me (MOO) that we are receiving numerous conflicting facts from Websleuth's sanctioned sources on the details of this atrocity. It makes me question if it's caused by misspeaking, a purposeful vagueness, corrections of poor communication, compilation of rumors, or a craftily controlled release of facts (true and false) to trap the killer.
So that makes me step back and look at LE's chain of command. IE, if historically, an investigation is botched - who steps up and takes control of the publicity? Is it left to the lowest level? Or does state LE step up? Or does the FBI come forward and try to use their prowess to reassure the public? I don't know as I haven't really followed that many cases this closely. But if we knew a past pattern for who steps up as official spokesperson at what point, then maybe we could better understand how to sift the facts they are releasing?
At this point I am gobsmacked and have almost given up on trying to follow the details.

I think part of it has to do with what some of the parents are saying, because they're using emotional words that may not be accurate. I don't blame them; they're in pain and they are entitled to their emotions and I understand that they'd like to be getting more info, more reassurance that the investigation is leading somewhere, and quickly. But when police say 'defensive wounds,' a parent might hear 'she was defending herself, which means she fought back.' Then we create a whole other narrative. And the police can't debunk every narrative chain that we outsiders create. However, I do wish among the local police, mayor, FBI and all LE involved, that there would be one solid press release crafted daily. There's a murderer (or two?) out there and having things walked back (like "crime of passion" and "targeted attack; no danger to the general public") is not creating a feeling that the authorities have this under control. I can't imagine how terrified the people in the area and families of the victims must be right now.

 

[cottonweaver]

Gentle reminder: AFAIK, there have only been ~3~ press conferences since the quadruple knife murders on 1/13/22, with the first not happening until three days later.

The answer to your question is: they have not been given the opportunity to ask because there have been shockingly few press conferences.

Perhaps a better question, and one the community would like answered, is why have there been so few press conferences given the gravity & scope of this horrific crime?

All IMHO.

King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

Isn't 3 press conferences in a fortnight actually quite a lot?
I appreciate that as a local, the frustration must be high but you also have the Comms guy who's giving separate media interviews very often.

Anyway, appreciating your frustration it's surely past time that a reward was announced?

 

[CityKid]

Did someone state that they believed the murders where quick and little time for pain ? Then, the suspect was skilled, knew exactly how they would commit the murders without startling the others.

Kaylee's father said that in an interview that was posted here yesterday. I have no idea if that's true, or if someone told him that to assuage him, but that's not information that's been released from an official source.

 

[Sandy007]

Another thought. The perpetrator could be a foreigner, someone who lives at the area but did not grow up in the area or even in the country. A fpreigner with military background, which may be not known to people they interact. A person, of whom everyone thinks they are local ordinary guy, but they are not. Someone, who thinks they are very smart, they are capable to achieve much more but are forced to work in not so prestigious in their eyes positions, such as maintenance guy as I wrote already in my previoud posts. There is so much anger cumulated in this crime's perpetrator, that makes me believe that they were rejected professionally, socially as well as sexually on too many occassions that they could not hide it anymore. Or at least they feel like being rejected.

 

[everybodhi]

The ME role is what you are describing.

You are right. I was misled by word nurse in the post i was replying to.

Coroner is a juridical professional, they register suspicious deaths. No nurses, either.

Idaho is so small, and perhaps underfunded, they have no state medical examiners, physicians routinely do autopsies there.

In this case, the autopsies were done by Spokane, WA medical examiners.
SPOKANE, Wash. — The Spokane County Medical Examiner has completed the autopsies on the four University of Idaho students

Is there a state medical examiner?
No.
If so, what is the state medical examiner’s role?
Not applicable.
In what department or agency is the state medical examiner’s office located?
Not applicable.
Does the state require that pathologists perform the autopsies?
No.
CDC: Idaho Coroner/Medical Examiner Laws

 

[katydid23]

Dogs are weird about who they bark at and who they don't. I have a cattle dog who is insanely protective of me. He won't let anyone come within about two feet of me, even if he knows the person. However, here's what I have found. If someone knocks on the door - he goes insane barking and continues to bark even after I let them in and he knows that person as someone who he is very familiar with. However, anyone can open my door and walk in without knocking and he doesn't make a single sound. In fact, it takes him a minute or two to get up from his nap on my bed to come and see who has come in the door. Regardless of who it is, HE DOES NOT BARK if the person just opens the door and walks in. He only barks if they KNOCK. I think the reason he doesn't bark when someone walks in, as opposed to knocking, is because he thinks it must be me. However, if I open the door to a delivery person - DoorDash, Instacart, anyone - which I do when I see them coming to prevent him from going crazy if they knock. He still goes insane protecting me. He will bark at them, growl at them, charge them, he has even gotten past me and chase several of the delivery people away. I know in that instance he is protecting me, but I can be sitting in the living room and someone can walk in (that I know) without knocking and he does not make a sound. It's so weird.

Yes, dogs can be weird. It's hard to generalise. I know as a rule, burglars don't like to see dogs at the house they want to break into---but they often find ways around it.

I do wonder if Murphy was a protective dog or not. Maybe he was very laid back because of the party house experience.

@jcamh---I hear ya about the cattle dog experience. My daughter has a VERY protective blue heeler and she's had a very hard time getting him to accept her boyfriends over the years. lol I love that she has a good guard dog, but I have to dog sit on some weekends so she has a break.

 

[Curious Me]

Basically similar titled articles, but some differences.

This link seems to have more pics of campus.

Idaho coed murders: Sorority sister recalls victim's hours before tragedy, 'a normal night in Moscow'

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20; Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Xana Kernodle, 20; and 21-year-old Madison Mogen were stabbed several times and killed on November 13

www.foxnews.com

Published November 29, 2022 7:56am EST

This link has more photos of the sorority.

Night of University of Idaho murders described as 'eerily normal'

The sorority sister of two of the victims of the quadruple University of Idaho murder says their final hours appeared to be 'eerily normal and spent with friends.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

PUBLISHED: 16:36 EST, 29 November 2022

She told Fox News Mogen and Kernodle had dropped out of the sorority last semester, and therefore she had seen them less frequently in recent months.

The University of Idaho's Pi Beta Phi chapter posted a photo of the girls on Instagram last week, with a caption that called Mogen and Kernodle 'bright young women who had incredible futures ahead of them.'

'Maddie was the sweetest soul, who was passionate about every aspect of her life. She shared her brilliance with those around her,' the post stated.

'Xana was a magnet for positive energy and always radiated that energy back into the world.

'We know others in our community are also hurting; we grieve with them and share the weight of their sorrow.'

Moye lives in a home behind the crime scene. She said she did not go to the home on the morning of November 13, when police said officers arrived to find multiple people already inside.

When asked about the possibility that the killer might have passed through her yard, she responded, 'It's definitely something that's crossed my mind and that's really terrifying.'
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