ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 18

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The brazenness of the crime is almost incomprehensible to me, and I think cannot be ignored or understated. I really do lean (as I've posted before) towards a peripheral suspect, someone mostly unknown to the victims, but the fact that the perp came and went without anyone seeing him (at least as far as we know so far) is truly horrifying.

I'm reminded of Israel Keyes, where some known victims seemed to be targeted because of their distance from town (I'm thinking of the couple in Vermont). His final crime though, Samantha Koenig in Alaska, he literally kidnapped her at gunpoint from a drive through coffee hut. Keyes isn't the greatest example, but it's interesting that there's a serial killer in recent years who has moved between "safer" targets (secluded, difficulty finding / reporting the crime) and brazen violent activity with a high risk of being caught. NOT to say that this crime is the work of a serial killer, but it's an interesting comparison to evaluate risk level.

It is quite possible. I was thinking, how could an outsider be not noticed in a small town, and then thought, if the students take him for a local, and the locals, for a student…think of this. He can’t be too old, maybe late 20es or very early 30es. And dressed in a way that both locals and students would given the ID weather in mid-November. And sort of not standing out.
 
I don't want to tear apart possibly a starving journalist or journalism or university student for trying to get a channel off the ground and asking donations.

I doubt she's making much, unlike corporate stations. I don't respect much any news these days, nothing is really reputable anymore. Her Amazon wish list is all media gear, so she's probably trying to get some cash to keep her channel running and do as a full-time job.

Don't get me wrong - I don't love this stuff, but it's a free country. I don't find her that exploitive from the segment I watched for the first time. Crime is exploitive in general sadly. JMO, MOO
There’s no excuse for claiming to be representing an entity she’s not. She’s already outed herself as a liar. You think that would be enough for people to avoid her like the plague. But alas, no. She’ll probably grow her whack-a-doodle following because of it.
 
presumably by LE but maybe Steve was not asked to share the details with the public?

As others have said, grieving families have to be given some lee-way as to what they might blurt out when they're bereft? I very much doubt he is trying to compromise the investigation deliberately. ( equally, it's up to the listener as to whether they believe a grieving father might get a key fact wrong)



bringing this clip over from the last thread

Entin reminds viewers that LE had only recently said that they preferred not to answer questions on occupancy of each room, to avoid ' compromising the investigation'
That’s not accurate: LE has from the beginning refused to disclose the locations within the house of the four victims to protect the integrity of the investigation, other than to eventually specify the victims were on the 2nd & 3rd floor.
King Road Homicides | Moscow, ID

Just because reporters may not be aware of something doesn’t change the facts.

No slam on reporters intended!
 
I won't try to interpret all of his comments but the gist I got was that he uncovered communications on the phone showing evidence of behavioral changes on someone's part leading him and the authorities in a specific direction.
Hm, I interpreted it as LE's behavior footprint after the showing of the phone info 'got some more things in the works' aka - they started down certain lead paths.
 
Photographs of different areas of the house throughout the course of the investigation:

Front door​

1. Geoff Crimmins for the Spokesman-Review - Nov. 13, 2022
2. Cole Quinn for the Daily Evergreen - Nov. 14, 2022
3. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 14, 2022
4. KLEW - Nov. 14, 2022
5. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 25, 2022
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Kitchen sliding glass door​

1. Geoff Crimmins for the Spokesman-Review - Nov. 13, 2022
2. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 14, 2022
3. Zach Wilkinson for the Lewiston Tribune - Nov. 18, 2022
4. Cole Quinn for the Daily Evergreen - Nov. 23 (?), 2022
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Posts are limited to 10 attachments so I will follow this post up with another one.
 

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Why does the Dad have his daughter’s phone? Shouldn’t it be in a forensics lab for biological and computer testing?
I doubt he has her physical phone. But in early days it was reported she was on a family plan and since it was “his” account he was able to get access to her records more quickly than LE would be able to.
 
23% of U of I students are in organized Greek organizations: Fraternity & Sorority Life | University of Idaho

There may be Greek ties to this crime, but that would be most likely due to 23% of the campus population participating (and it is probably well over 23% of the late night partying population). If a brother murdered another brother, there would be no incentive to cover up the crime. Who would want to live in a house with a murderer?

As to the murders themselves, we know LE was looking for large knife purchases. This type of knife could be used in hand-to-hand combat and are designed to kill strong young men rapidly - otherwise they would be of little military use. In more modern usage, this type of knife could be used to defend against a bear or other large predator. A few quick blows (or even a single stab) to the mid chest with a large knife would be likely to hit a major vascular structure causing rapid blood loss, loss of consciousness, and death. An injury a major bronchus could produce a rapid tension pneumothorax and death. A major lung injury could make it difficult to scream. With chest injuries, victims can exsanguinate into the chest

To me, the most likely scenario was a targetted attack against one of the two women on the third floor. The perp may have planned a quiet entry, quick kill, and rapid exit. When he attacks his victim as planned, in what was likely a darkened room, he was surprised when the second person wakes up and he has to silence her. Possibly there was enough noise to awaken E and X, and E confronts the perp coming down the steps and is stabbed. X may have witnessed this and becomes collateral damage. With his plan going sideways at this point, the perp heads out as quickly as possible.

As for the dog, possibly when the perp opened the door, the dog went outside and the door was closed behind him.
That’s pretty much what I think, too. About letting the dog out when he entered as well.
Since the surviving roomies haven’t spoken publicly, I can only surmise that the perp was unaware of bedrooms on the ground floor or got scared off & they locked their bedroom doors. I hope they are well & surrounded with love & compassion.
 
Photographs of different areas of the house throughout the course of the investigation:

Front door​

1. Geoff Crimmins for the Spokesman-Review - Nov. 13, 2022
2. Cole Quinn for the Daily Evergreen - Nov. 14, 2022
3. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 14, 2022
4. KLEW - Nov. 14, 2022
5. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 25, 2022
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Kitchen sliding glass door​

1. Geoff Crimmins for the Spokesman-Review - Nov. 13, 2022
2. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 14, 2022
3. Zach Wilkinson for the Lewiston Tribune - Nov. 18, 2022
4. Cole Quinn for the Daily Evergreen - Nov. 23 (?), 2022
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Posts are limited to 10 attachments so I will follow this post up with another one.
Thank you so much!!!! Search Dogs and rear patio lights photographs that I was desperate to find! You are a star!
 
I agree. The follow-up question from the journalist on the behavior pattern thing tripped him up and he made it sound like it was the victim's behavior, but I don't believe at all that that is what he meant. I think he meant 'towards the victims'.
So if this is what he meant then I am leaning towards someone’s behavior pattern changed towards either Kaylee or Madison based on him also mentioning the phone data. I honestly keep circling back to the same someone. And I honestly felt like Kaylee’s mom and sisters comments about said someone were meant to reassure them to make them feel comfortable. Does that make sense? I can’t help but wonder if someone was supposed to be at home but was not and there are photos proving said person was not at home. My head is spinning.
 
That Dad said they were sleeping in the same bed doesn't compromise the investigation at all, because it is doubtful that law enforcement told him that. He is probably making a reasonable assumption (a likely true one based on his experiences), and is rationalizing his grief, which any of us would do. We would all hope that our children didn't die alone, and if there was any chance that they didn't we would err on the side of optimism.

My opinion.
Many on here postulated that K and M were in the same bed anyway. It appeared that they were calling and texting J together. So, it was no big surprise to hear Mr. G confirm what we already suspected.
 
There’s no excuse for claiming to be representing an entity she’s not. She’s already outed herself as a liar. You think that would be enough for people to avoid her like the plague. But alas, no. She’ll probably grow her whack-a-doodle following because of it.
Are you talking about the YouTuber who livestreamed from the scene this afternoon? Or are you talking about the fake reporter at the press conference?
 
It is a cryptic message:
My first interpretation is that one of the four killed victims had committed some crime and behavior changed after that leading to the killing. But that didn't make sense. He only had access to Kaylee's phone
My second thought was that one or both of the survivors changed their behavior after the murders, but that would be 100% expected.
That doesn't mean Kaylee couldn't have texted someone to the effect " so-and-so, something is going on with you. you've changed every since you started hanging with so-and-so".
don't necessarily have to have the other person's phone to know that Kaylee possibly called out someone specific's behavior.
 
So if this is what he meant then I am leaning towards someone’s behavior pattern changed towards either Kaylee or Madison based on him also mentioning the phone data. I honestly keep circling back to the same someone. And I honestly felt like Kaylee’s mom and sisters comments about said someone were meant to reassure them to make them feel comfortable. Does that make sense? I can’t help but wonder if someone was supposed to be at home but was not and there are photos proving said person was not at home. My head is spinning.
That remark may be related to why K and M were so desperate to contact exBF at 2 am only couple of hours they were killed
 
Remember early on when K's mom (I think it was her?) said early on that K and J were likely to get married one day? And soon after we found out K and J were actually no longer steady and were not even friends on social media. MOO this could be the type of behavior K's dad is referring to seeing on her phone - J "going cold" toward K. Unfriending, not returning texts, not answering late night calls (we know of at least one instance), etc...

Dad may not be referring to J at all, so I don't mean to insinuate. I'm just trying to illustrate how one might observe someone's behavioral change when viewing K's phone. It's also possible MOO that even if K's dad were referring to her ex J, that the change in behavior is to be expected from someone in J's position, someone trying to move on from a long-term gf. If K's parents really were in the dark about the relationship ending, J "going cold" might seem suspicious to them, but not necessarily to LE.

I know J isn't listed as a POI, so I don't mean to point this in his direction or imply anything. I'm using him as only an example to illustrate a point about a possible context of what dad mentioned with the behavior footprint comment.
 
The red on the shoe appears to me to be the exact same color as the evidence sticker on the window. Possibly another evidence sticker. Which makes you wonder what evidence could be found on one of their shoes?
I speculate they are looking for finger prints anywhere and everywhere. I bet the place is a huge *mess* now. We had a safe broken into years ago and the entire room with carpet was ruined from how much finger print powder was used.
 
With all do respect to the dad I doubt police have told much of any real info.
Thinking about why dad would get access to a phone with such critical evidence on it... So close to the events, police would need a warrant to access phone data. However, perhaps dad could have accessed it without the warrant, so they leaned on him to open it and review texts. "Mr. Goncalves, we're looking for anything that might indicate a change in behavior patterns...."
 
Photographs of different areas of the house throughout the course of the investigation:

Front door​

1. Geoff Crimmins for the Spokesman-Review - Nov. 13, 2022
2. Cole Quinn for the Daily Evergreen - Nov. 14, 2022
3. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 14, 2022
4. KLEW - Nov. 14, 2022
5. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 25, 2022
View attachment 384242View attachment 384240
View attachment 384245View attachment 384246
View attachment 384247

Kitchen sliding glass door​

1. Geoff Crimmins for the Spokesman-Review - Nov. 13, 2022
2. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 14, 2022
3. Zach Wilkinson for the Lewiston Tribune - Nov. 18, 2022
4. Cole Quinn for the Daily Evergreen - Nov. 23 (?), 2022
View attachment 384248View attachment 384252
View attachment 384257View attachment 384268

Posts are limited to 10 attachments so I will follow this post up with another one.

‘Good Vibes’ plant wall room (living room?)​

1. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 14, 2022
2. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 14, 2022
3. David Buchan for the Daily Mail - Nov. 21, 2022
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Kitchen window​

1. Derek Shook for Fox News Digital - Nov. 14, 2022
2. Nathanael Jones for the Daily Mail - Dec. 1, 2022
3. Nathanael Jones for the Daily Mail - Dec. 1, 2022
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