ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 29

[ktm44]

The father is doing the best he can in this awful situation. He is not lieing. But there is a concern for public safety. Often these killers feed off of the notoriety. The concern is that if the father continues to speak publicly that it could embolden the killer. One reason that LE does not release info is to prevent the killer from getting this type of attention.
I am in no way not showing empathy for the father. I'm simply stating that this is a concern.

My heart hurts for the poor parents and fully understand why they want results now.

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

 

[Ghostwheel]

Idaho murders: Father of slain victim says she had 'big open wounds,' calls police 'cowards'

The father of slain University of Idaho student Kaylee Goncalves said the victims had "big open gouges" that were clearly the work of a "sadistic male" and called police "cowards" for not sharing more with the public.

www.q13fox.com

Reflecting on the description of the wounds, might the initial description of the weapon be off? Instead of a combat knife, might a small survival hatchet create the wound as described? These are slightly smaller than woodsman's hatchets and are lighter. Small hatchets were also among weapons used in personal combat before our industrial age.

I was just trying to find out if this had been discussed. I'm not thinking hatchet, but the word "tear" has me wondering.

Graphic warning. I have a lot of knives, a large collection of knives, scimitar, cutlass and swords. A couple of axes, morningstars and flails. A well edged weapon slices, it does not "tear". A stab with movement is a slice, not a tear. A tear happens with a dull weapon, a non edged weapon, an ornamental weapon, a weapon that might have a sharpness but may not be made for slicing ( think scissors, shears, pruning saw).

This brings me back to a report I read and will see if I can find that referenced serrations. That tears. Think bread knife sawing through foam. This takes me to to insulation knife. Duct knife. A handyman or construction worker.

Or someone with custom knives of the fantasy type. This set is vicious and actually sharp Fantasy Dual Dragon Dagger Sword w/ Wall Mount Plaque https://a.co/d/2T54bxi

Of course combat or tactical, fishing or diving but we already knew that.

Tear vs stab. Big difference.

 

[BlueTunes]

I've been pouring over the previous threads, trying to catch up on posts I missed. Reading through all those pages, a couple things kept stranding out to me. What's "different" or stands out about this case? IMO, two things:

1. The weapon- to me, this indicates rage. Much more personal than a gun.

and

2. The fact that two people were in the home as this happened, but did not get hurt and were left unscathed. Something about that doesnt sit well with me.

JMO

The weapon of choice may have been chosen because the killer desired stealth. He could have went in guns blazing but this would completely compromise the element of surprise thus alerting the occupants of the house to take up defensive positions. Thus making his spree much more difficult. The noise from a firearm would also likely wake up neighbors. Possibly call the police. Making escape much more difficult.

 

[KPO]

I've been pouring over the previous threads, trying to catch up on posts I missed. Reading through all those pages, a couple things kept stranding out to me. What's "different" or stands out about this case? IMO, two things:

1. The weapon- to me, this indicates rage. Much more personal than a gun.

and

2. The fact that two people were in the home as this happened, but did not get hurt and were left unscathed. Something about that doesnt sit well with me.

Why is #2 such an issue for so many people? This house was quite large, 3 levels, and those levels were not directly on top of levels below. If their bedroom doors were locked, why would the killer confront them? Their bedrooms were on the 1st floor with the main door entry so it's likely that they often locked their bedroom doors. Many people sleep soundly, play white noise and other things to make sleep easier. The ME said that these murders were quick so IMO, there wasn't some long stretch of screams and banging, etc. We've been told by LE that the 2 surviving roommates were sleeping and didn't awake until later the next morning. I don't see why it should debated otherwise.

 

[KPO]

I was just trying to find out if this had been discussed. I'm not thinking hatched, but the word "tear" has me wondering.

Graphic warning. I have a lot of knives, a large collection of knives, scimitar, cutlass and swords. A couple of axes, morningstars and flails. A well edged weapon slices, it does not "tear". A stab with movement is a slice, not a tear. A tear happens with a dull weapon, a non edged weapon, an ornamental weapon, a weapon that might have a sharpness but may not be made for slicing ( think scissors, shears, pruning saw).

This brings me back to a report I read and will see if I can find that referenced serrations. That tears. Think bread knife sawing through foam. This takes me to to insulation knife. Duct knife. A handyman or construction worker.

Or someone with custom knives of the fantasy type. This set is vicious and actually sharp Fantasy Dual Dragon Dagger Sword w/ Wall Mount Plaque https://a.co/d/2T54bxi

Of course combat or tactical, fishing or diving but we already knew that.

Tear vs stab. Big difference.

All of the news stories that I saw early on referenced the Ka-Bar style knife that is serrated on one side. Police seek 'Rambo'-style knife in University of Idaho murders probe: report

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

This is for the experts in the room:

Could/Would a lust murderer potentially kill three to get to the fourth (object of lust)?

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Likely sleeping when they were killed but not all of them were necessarily in their beds could mean they were asleep in their beds when killed but then posed elsewhere.

My opinion.

jmo but I've wondered if he kept one awake and killed/posed especially. It would explain the FBI BAU called right away. If local LE just needed FBI tech tools, they could've gotten that w/o 2 BAU teams imo. all just my musing, no stmt of fact.

 

[Ghostwheel]

All of the news stories that I saw early on referenced the Ka-Bar style knife that is serrated on one side. Police seek 'Rambo'-style knife in University of Idaho murders probe: report

And then they walked that back to fixed blade knife. I was thinking they did that because there are so many types of knives with serrations and that are fixed blade that are NOT Ka-bar type knives.

But I, personally, hadn't thought of construction knives.

 

[Esdaniel]

This one. Right in the beginning of this segment is where she shares that info, but even though it was stated on tv, file it away for now. I'd wait and not discuss it further on this thread.​

Trying to stay away from the beginning of this segment but in regards to the 911 call- this is a very interesting theory. There have always been 2 thoughts in my head. First was that reporting an unconscious person (assuming they meant one of the victims) was incredibly strange when considering the amount of blood that was reported to have been present. Second, after reading a post on this thread pages and pages ago about the 911 script, I had decided it made sense that the report of an unconscious person was just an answer to “is the victim conscious”?
I am completely thrown for a loop with the theory that the unconscious person was one of the surviving roommates that had fainted after seeing the crime scene. I would love to hear that 911 call once this case is solved.
I’m interested to hear everyone’s thoughts on this.

 

[Sundog]

K's family has scheduled Kaylee's celebration of life service for December 30th. K's mother had said earlier that she didn't want to schedule K's service as she feared that the murderer would show up. For whatever reason, she must be feeling safer now, a better sense of security to move forward with the plans.

 

[MsBetsy]

Is it possible that the difference in each victims injuries are due to engagement with the perp, fighting back before a fatal blow. Or, if *he* became tired due to so much exertion?

Yes. LE said at least one victim had defensive wounds. It makes sense that the second victim might wake up when the person next to them is killed, giving them a chance to react.

And yes, the last person to be attacked could have had a chance to fight back if the killer was getting tired, and the injuries might not be as severe as the others.

 

[sumzero]

Maybe nobody knows the driver.?…

Or maybe LE is wrong about the make, model, or year? It's happened before. That no image of the actual vehicle has been released makes me wonder what they're relying on for identification. Someone's recollection? If so, when? Days after the crime or weeks later?

 

[EmmieA]

I do think Kaylees bed was still in the house but I think pretty much everyone in this forum thinks her and Maddie were in the same bed that night. So why is that an unpopular opinion?

My reply was NOT about the widely accepted opinion that M & K were sharing a bed. I was replying to a post about the coroner’s comments about beds. The coroner originally said all four victims had been murdered in their beds. But then the coroner changed that to *some* were killed in their beds. My opinion (unpopular because I stated it before and a lot of people disagreed with me) is that she said “some” were in their beds instead of “all” were in their beds because K was in M’s bed, not her own.

MOO

 

[SoHelpMeGod]

Regarding Kaylee's father's report about her wounds:
One thing I notice is that Kaylee's body type is quite different from Maddie's. The coroner said all the victims had multiple wounds, and the fatal wounds were in the chest for all the victims.
IMO it would be have been easier for the killer to direct the knife between ribs on Maddie's chest than on Kaylee's (more breast tissue in the way). The killer may have struggled with Kaylee's chest and made additional wounds (chest and below) to try to accomplish their goal. At some point Kaylee apparently did die from a chest wound like the others.
Xana's chest would also have been easier to access than Kaylee's, and Ethan was a male.
Kaylee's father likely wouldn't have thought about this.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I've been pouring over the previous threads, trying to catch up on posts I missed. Reading through all those pages, a couple things kept stranding out to me. What's "different" or stands out about this case? IMO, two things:

1. The weapon- to me, this indicates rage. Much more personal than a gun.

and

2. The fact that two people were in the home as this happened, but did not get hurt and were left unscathed. Something about that doesnt sit well with me.

Yes. Both of your excellent points have been discussed at length here.

Re: 1. The use of a knife does seem to reveal something about both the crime & the person(s) who committed it. Certainly quieter than a gun. Lots of expertise about the knife choice has been shared.

Re: 2. The two survivors are not speaking publicly about the deaths of their roommates. IMO the layout of the home prevented them from being attacked. Their rooms have no view inside from the rear of the home as he others do. Lots of great, thoughtful opposing viewpoints have been shared here along with layouts of the home that help to see all points of egress & assumed locations of the victims.

Welcome to Websleuths! Keep commenting. We can use all the insights we can get.

 

[KatoLucy]

Why?

Good question. There has been some discussion about the thickness of the blankets and/or quilts, due to the temperature in Idaho at the time of the crime, effecting blood cast-off, and the amount of blood that might/might not have been present at the scene. Those are excellent observations, but let’s put those aside for now. The human body is tough, particularly the rib area. These wounds would be a difficult task for an average female. Add to that all of the thick bedding being discussed and the weapon used, stabbing through that material would be hard. Doing it many times just adds to that equation. But if the killer yanked the covers back first, that brings all of the blood conversation back into play, as well as the potential for waking other victims, and this becoming a very loud “free-for-all.“ This crime required the killer to have a fair amount of strength, some basic understanding of critical target areas for a knife, and an ability to sustain a very brutal attack through four victims. JMO… and opinions vary.

 

[BlueTunes]

All of the news stories that I saw early on referenced the Ka-Bar style knife that is serrated on one side. Police seek 'Rambo'-style knife in University of Idaho murders probe: report

JMO

I wouldn’t be surprised if the killer did use a ka-bar knife. They are very popular knives. I imagine It would make LE job much much more harder to track down the killer because of it.

 

[Trouble1321075]

I still don't think the person they're looking for is a man.

I'm curious why?
The impression I have is that the manner these killings occurred required a great amount of upper body strength. What about this crime gives you the impression that it was executed by a female?

 

[otto]

Moscow to Pullman, approx 15 minutes. To Coeur d'Alene, approx 1.5 hours. To Spokane, same. Police should view highway cameras for older white Hyundai Elantras heading into those cities within a window encompassing the likely time of the murders plus travel time. MOO.

Sounds like that's exactly what they are doing, trying to identify where the car was before and after it was at 1122 King Road. If someone had come forward to explain why the car was at the murder scene at the time of the murders, police would have said that the car is cleared.

I wouldn't be surprised if the vehicle left the Moscow city limits, so finding which direction is the first goal. I doubt the vehicle is more than 20 miles from Moscow because it's hard to put together someone living in another state, and planning a targeted 3 AM mass murder at a student rental in Moscow. The targeted/plan fact seems to require someone who is in the area more often.

From Dec 12 transcript posted upthread:

"There's been a lot of questions about the white car that we've been interested in. We're looking for that car because we believe, through our investigation, that that car was in the area during the time of the murders and we also believe that the occupant or occupants may have seen something. They may not know they've seen something. So, we specifically want to talk to them and we want to know who they are and what they might know or might be able to contribute to the investigation.
...

We have literally an army of analysts who have been sorting through videos that have been submitted through the fbi.gov.moscow upload site. Those videos are from all over town, gas stations and specifically the area around King Rd. We've been trying to use those videos to garner new information. As you can imagine, there's hours and hours and hours of videos, so it does take a lot of time."

link

 

[EmmieA]

I had assumed that as it is a rental home which turns over periodically for student housing, the bed would stay behind. Typically these student homes are furnished.

Her said he saw that her bed was made, as in had all of her bedding on it. And I would assume her father would know if she had moved out or not and he seemed to imply that she still had her stuff there.

MOO