ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[x_files]

I just think there really should be a label for these guys.
It's the mindset, to me. If the only difference between a one-off and serial killer is that the perp got enough fulfillment from one crime that his urges were satiated for good, or if he was caught before he could practice his depraved interests again, it strikes me that it's still the exact same mindset.

Why can I hear Talking Heads' Psycho Killer playing in my mind?

Budding Serial Killer's First Kill?

 

[EBW321]

I've just read the crime scene is going to be released and cleaned on Friday, then released to the property managers.

Idaho murders: King Road crime scene to be cleaned starting Friday, then turned over to property company

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20, Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Madison Mogen, 21, were stabbed several times and murdered on Nov. 13.

www.foxnews.com

I realize it must be released at some point just feel it may be too soon.

A lot of murderers return to the crime scene. But given the high profile nature of this crime, media presence , police presence due to it still being in custody of the police / official crime scene… killer may be hesitant to return.

Releasing it means police no longer sitting out front, media will hopefully leave soon after and it’s possible the killer would return.

Might be what LE is hoping for and sudden decision to hand house back over and clean up.

I have very little doubt LE has complete surveillance on home for this exact reason.

 

[maskedwoman]

There are several known-for-decades-to-be-party-houses in that neighborhood. The King Rd house is arguably the most iconic one.

Back when dinosaurs walked the earth, I attended several parties there. I was never part of the Greek system but attended parties when the off-campus house was occupied variously by a fraternity, a sorority, and just groups of students.

Around town, lots of people who never attended UI have attended parties there over the years. It wasn’t exclusive. At all.

However, I have no personal knowledge of whether or not things changed in the last 5+/- years. Moo.

Thank you. I, too, walked the earth with dinosaurs. LOL

 

[x_files]

Apparently 1122 King Road is officially finished as a crime scene being investigated: Chief Fry says cleaning crews will go in tomorrow:

Who wants to rent it after that? Either those intrigued by True Crime or Ghost Hunters...otherwise I personally would NOT want to live there in case it is "targeted" again.

 

[Omega Man]

(Snipped for better focus)

Who within 100 miles of Moscow would buy a 2011-2013 white Elantra since the search for it was first reported all over the country,

How about a guy who just killed 4 people and got rid of his own 2011-2013 white Elantra because it was one big bag of incriminating evidence and he doesn't want anyone to notice that his old car is missing?

 

[10ofRods]

Hopefully they are all given the option to complete their degrees online. I can't imagine them wanting to go back there.

Ed Code and academic standards usually prohibit certain kinds of degrees from being completed entirely online. Chemistry lab, for example. Anatomy and physiology. Upper division biology with experiments/dissection, etc. U of Idaho has many programs of this type (tree science; field experience classes in wildlife observation and management; allied health professions, etc).

Universities can't just ignore approved curriculum in classes and let it all go online, but a bunch of classes of course can be fully on line. Where I teach, a bunch of classes stayed In Person during COVID (meeting all standards of precaution of course - otherwise there'd have been a 2 year gap in creating nurses, physical therapists, kinesiologists and various STEM majors),

Why "especially in competive sports?"

Well, maybe because that's where we usually see it, on college campuses? It could be confirmation bias. In my own theory, it's not just competitive sports personnel who use steroids, but it's often the case that people associated with athletics are associated with people who procure or sell. A common method is to get an unscrupulous doctor to over-prescribe to someone who is not on a team, but then that person makes bank by selling it to others.

Some people somewhere are using steroids, we all know that.

But in this case, I think the murderer is more likely to be involved as one of these illicit drug obtainers, perhaps someone who once styled themselves as an athlete. This person likely samples the goods or may even be a person with a questionable prescriber.

 

[PrairieWind]

I've just read the crime scene is going to be released and cleaned on Friday, then released to the property managers.

Idaho murders: King Road crime scene to be cleaned starting Friday, then turned over to property company

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20, Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Madison Mogen, 21, were stabbed several times and murdered on Nov. 13.

www.foxnews.com

I realize it must be released at some point just feel it may be too soon.

it is interesting that the police department arranged for the cleaning and the police are remaining in control of the home.

 

[renarde]

Here's my big question K planned to graduate early and moved out in October. Where was she living while she finished her last semester? In Texas? Taking online classes?
Finished all her credits early?
At home with her parents? Staying with friends or with her ex?
I have not seen these questions answered in MSM but curious about who she lived with and met those past months. Could she have attracted a stalker? What about Austin? Where was she planning to live? and did she meet an unsavory character down in Texas? or at her new job?

Yet on her last instagram post (photo of the five roommates together), she states: "one lucky girl to be surrounded by these ppl everyday" (posted on November 12)... what did she mean?

 

[PrairieWind]

Who wants to rent it after that? Either those intrigued by True Crime or Ghost Hunters...otherwise I personally would NOT want to live there in case it is "targeted" again.

I doubt they have much trouble re-leasing the place. Housing is usually scarce in a college town. And the notoriety of the place may actually attract many potential tenants.

 

[z0mer]

it is interesting that the police department arranged for the cleaning and the police are remaining in control of the home.

Well, they probably want to know it's done in a proper way. Afterwards the house will be handed over.

 

[Montecore1]

SPECULATION, THEORIES AHEAD. JMO.

Yes. First of all, I've lived on college campuses for a total of about 20 years, and worked on them for a total of about 40 years. Large and small colleges/universities, public and private.

LONG POST incoming - but I've synthesized so much of what many of you have been writing over the past couple of days - you'll see that I"m using many of the hypotheses here, which kind of clicked together Lego-style for me, with this story.
----
It's always the case that there are longterm hangers-on, who pretend to be students, on every college campus. It's particularly common right now, IMO.

Heck, some of the scariest moments of teaching have to do with some individual being in class and they aren't students!

It's actually difficult to detect in larger lecture classes. Each time it's happened to me, there's been some specific behavior that this person is exhibiting that made me worry/wonder about them and I'd have to do things to get their names (and sometimes, they'd disappear before or immediately after my "investigation" - whereas no other students even notice that I did a pop quiz and then walked around and specifically collected the papers by hand.

At larger schools (U of Id is definitely not tiny), these students can blend in and hang on for years.

I believe that the Elantra belongs to a relative of one of these people.

It was never registered properly for campus use. The person lives in on-campus housing (likely a Greek house, as all the principals in this case were associated with a Greek house), and may be seen as an Elder Brother and as we know, the brothers at the house are not going to turn such a person into housing authorities. Food is no problem for them, in this situation. Some have girlfriends in the house if it's co-ed housing, so they kind of share those rooms off the record. We do not have fraternities on campus where I work right now, but we have them off-campus and I have my students do papers on their residences using social mapping techniques and so I know that every fraternity has at least 1-2 of these people, which seems normal to the members and which they regard as a kind of assistance if they can't launch themselves after graduation.

Thing is, some of these people linger for years and never graduate. Students come and go and may not realize this, but staff at the universities, including police, usually know of them. It's an area like underage drinking or noise complaints - no real push to put a stop to it. Unless the person does something really bad.

There's been an increase in such students at many colleges. It's a form of homelessness or being indigent, but the people who meet these men do not realize it, as they dress and act like students. They are unable to move on from college life, they won't move on, they are often regarded as BMOC (Big Men On Campus). BTW, I know of no women in this category except a couple of girlfriends who lived irregularly with their boyfriends - but they were students). I know about them most when I investigate cheating - it's often one of these students who has been collecting copies of exams (mostly given online these days) and is selling them/distributing them with answers to their housemates.

Anyway, such students are often trouble. So that was one of my first thoughts.

They are well versed at avoiding and defying authority, was my second thought. They are jealous and suspicious of real students, but hide it fairly well. Nearly every physical fight I've witnessed or been involved in recording/adjudicating involved one of these non-students. They usually claim they are about to enroll again, or they enroll every 3-4 semesters, constantly fail to complete. BTW, the federal government has put into place modest nation-wide measures to try and prevent these characters from continuing to get student loans AND to force repayment under some circumstances - if they can find them. Some of these non-students actually run large scams involving stealing identity and registering under different names at various other colleges than the one they are living at - thereby occasionally grabbing some money from an online university or college. At my college, we now have about 5 current restraining orders against such men because their behaviors ended up with criminal prosecution and they violated a local order not to come on campus. One of them has been sent to another state for his parole, because he won't stop coming on campus. He has come on campus armed.

This person I am describing cannot destroy the Elantra because their relative (or other person from whom they borrowed) would notice and might just be the type to put 2 and 2 together. These students cannot go home because their families have had it with their behavior (they steal from their families - and sometimes even brag about it). They steal from their dorm mates and house mates, too. They steal from the library too.

I believe this person is University related because LE has mostly received tips from and interviewed people from the University.

I'll bet professors have been interviewed, but also students from every single house/dorm associated with the victims and their social life. So not just Sigma Chi but also SAE, the two Pi houses (sororities) and any other place where they had friends or acquaintances.

Patterns have emerged. The type of individual I'm talking about will certainly have been mentioned by more than one person and LE surely will have asked, point blank, whether other students know of any such person - an older person pretending to be a student and perhaps using tactics of intimidation will be mentioned, and if several people mention the same guy, he's gotta be a POI.

I think one of these men has been associated with the Elantra by video or by testimony. The police also see the Elantra near the house on the night of the murders. Elantra is back out of town and at the house of the relative (who has likely been talked to, because I think they tracked it down).

The murderer - and perhaps an accomplice or unwitting tag-along on that night - went to that relative's house to return the car, clean up, and stay for Thanksgiving. Caught a ride with someone to come back, to be close to the crime scene and, as several here have suggested, see whether his own views of what LE is going to do are actually coming to pass. The car would still contain DNA from the victims.

This profile is based on whatever cases I could find that are remotely similar, and on other university murders that I know about. This person *could* have a part time job with the university in some capacity, may involve night work. This person uses university facilities as if they are entitled to them, but will have no transcripted credit-bearing classes for the past year or two (they may occasionally enroll, but fail to finish or the transcript will record a withdrawal or a fail). They may be lying to their families about still being in college (IME, this type of person is really volatile, scared and often suicidal - and to me, a suicidal student is always one that's capable of harming others as well, because they are constantly contemplating the great tabu against killing humans - they've decided that some humans deserve death, and they have both suicidal and homicidal fantasies). That's why when committing heinous crimes, they have no fear in the moment of being caught. Afterwards, they may find that being homicidal suits them better psychologically than being suicidal - which is another reason they are so scary.

As an aside, when I learned through MSM that there were animal mutilations in 2017 (associated with university life, let's just say - and the victims of the carcass dumpings were targeted), I realized that would make this person about 3-4 years older than our victims, if they started this behavior a couple of years after arriving.

Now, my whole story could be wrong - but LE has a similar story about someone, right now. I'm convinced of it. They know that this same person whose name has been coming up has some kind of run-ins with law, maybe back in high school. They have warned and talked to his family. He's feeling increasingly cornered, but they know where he is. It's essential that the extra FBI agents go to the homes of vacationing students to talk to every person who knows this person (or persons, if there are more than one).

This person is acquainted with every person who was killed. He lives nearby. He fits all the psychological criteria that people here on WS keep mentioning (jealous, rejected, fantasizer, angry and perhaps fearful) Scared humans who are about to be caught for something are dangerous. And it's more than just being turned in to university authorities for leaving without permission on campus. This person is likely also a petty drug dealer (as others here have hypothesized). So it all clicked for me. He would have been in the house before, but is not a boyfriend or an ex. Women on campus have had negative encounters with him already. He has likely approached at least one of the women romantically and was rebuffed (21 year old women often think a 24-25 year guy is a bit too old). He likely tries to hit on the 18-19 year olds, though. If he's around for so many years, he gets to watch the women he wanted to date move on to other men. This is highly displeasing to him.

If I am at all close, then this murderer knows that he's in the cross-hairs, although he may believe he's one of a handful and has almost certainly started rumors/stories to implicate others, or when interrogated, he implicated others. It's a dangerous time in the investigation because if that Elantra has been located, the instant LE moves in with a search warrant, the gig is up and this killer will know he's going down. If the owner of the Elantra cooperates, though, it can all be done without him finding out, at least not immediately.

As for the "context" quest by LE, I feel it fits with this theory. If this guy is who I think it is, there's definitely context - and from that night and from that weekend. His housemates are probably used to him coming and going at all hours, borrowing various cars, etc, but something still was amiss/relevant that happened on Nov 12 and if no one saw him on Nov 13, that needs to be established. I figure he told at least a few people he was "going home" for Thanksgiving, so no one would have thought much about it, and he very well did arrive at some relative's house on the 13th - and stay for Thanksgiving.

Weakest part of my theory is any good hypothesis about where this guy is right now. Could be on the run. Could be back at school (my guess, as this guy knows nothing else and can't function outside the life he's made at university). Could be at home with family. Could be staying with friends' family. LE surely are at the point where they either know exactly where he is (my guess) or are about to locate him,

I've read every post on this thread and the last one - and I appreciate the opportunity to write all of this out, using so much of what you all have been saying.

Great post, thank you. Do you feel this individual has confided in anyone about the crime he committed or do you think he has "friends" that know he did it (one way or another)?

If so to either question will they, or have they gone to the police or will they actually have to be sought out by LE and strongly interrogated and fold under questioning?

 

[Ozoner]

Revenge and thrill killers use drugs, too though. It's not like they are mutually exclusive. IME, steroids are most popular among former student athletes, a handful of gym-obsessed young men, police and military.

Why would a narcissistic incel punish 3 girls and 1 guy? Do you think he went in hoping to find just his one feminine target, alone? Do you think he ended up having to kind of "wing it" because others were there? He could see the cars out front, so he knew the house had several people in it. Revenge, to me, doesn't include a plan, however spontaneous, to kill everyone who might be nearby or a witness.

I do think there's going to be a link, for sure. Mostly because 4 victims, a knife, and the apparent rapidity of the crime.

Use of drugs by the perp is possible, but but that doesn't mean that the murders have any connection to drugs. To be clear, the discussion was about the motive for the murders. The motive was almost certainly either revenge or pleasure, in my opinion.

 

[Tillyjames]

I doubt they have much trouble re-leasing the place. Housing is usually scarce in a college town. And the notoriety of the place may actually attract many potential tenants.

I agree. It’s a cool house in a great location. A lot of college students wouldn’t care MOO

 

[Which_pancake]

it is interesting that the police department arranged for the cleaning and the police are remaining in control of the home.

I thought this was interesting too. I was under the impression cleanup is completely up to the homeowner.

 

[LAhiker]

I can't imagine it will ever be anything other than what it is, residential rental. It is a good investment property for the owners.

My guess is that the house will eventually be demolished. Who would want to live there after what happened? The area could be turned by the city into a memorial pocket park, or maybe someone would build another house there that wasn't so clearly connected to the murders.

JMO

 

[Omega Man]

it is interesting that the police department arranged for the cleaning and the police are remaining in control of the home.

Nothing strange I believe. Most likely they simply want to make sure that the house is thoroughly cleaned before any news crews and redditors arrive to "document it". I think Police is doing this out of courtesy to the victims' families and its very commendable of them to do so. After all who's there to guarantee that the owner, having the house released to them, would not let video cameras before the cleaning crews in. Nowadays it's all about the money...

 

[x_files]

Or “clarifying” info on them surfing online and SM accounts. Anything’s possible at this stage in the game. JMOO.

SM is a stalker's best tool for helping them keep tabs on targets w/o having to follow them 24/7 some people do post info about where they are going, living, working, etc publicly. Stalkers take advantage of others' youthful naivety & innocence.

 

[Addicted2Crime]

Ed Code and academic standards usually prohibit certain kinds of degrees from being completed entirely online. Chemistry lab, for example. Anatomy and physiology. Upper division biology with experiments/dissection, etc. U of Idaho has many programs of this type (tree science; field experience classes in wildlife observation and management; allied health professions, etc).

Universities can't just ignore approved curriculum in classes and let it all go online, but a bunch of classes of course can be fully on line. Where I teach, a bunch of classes stayed In Person during COVID (meeting all standards of precaution of course - otherwise there'd have been a 2 year gap in creating nurses, physical therapists, kinesiologists and various STEM majors),




Well, maybe because that's where we usually see it, on college campuses? It could be confirmation bias. In my own theory, it's not just competitive sports personnel who use steroids, but it's often the case that people associated with athletics are associated with people who procure or sell. A common method is to get an unscrupulous doctor to over-prescribe to someone who is not on a team, but then that person makes bank by selling it to others.

Some people somewhere are using steroids, we all know that.

But in this case, I think the murderer is more likely to be involved as one of these illicit drug obtainers, perhaps someone who once styled themselves as an athlete. This person likely samples the goods or may even be a person with a questionable prescriber.

I can’t figure out how to only quote a portion of your reply, sorry about that.

I just wanted to agree that it’s not easy to just switch a class/program to be online from on ground. I’m involved with the F1 approval process at the university I work at and there are very strict laws in place around online/on ground for international students. An international student typically wouldn’t be able to stay in country if their program was 100% online.

Edit for typo.

 

[z0mer]

My guess is that the house will eventually be demolished. Who would want to live there after what happened? The area could be turned by the city into a memorial pocket park, or maybe someone would build another house there that wasn't so clearly connected to the murders.

JMO

I suspect plenty. Would you demolish every house where a murder took place?

 

[HopeValleyDevil]

I've just read the crime scene is going to be released and cleaned on Friday, then released to the property managers.

Idaho murders: King Road crime scene to be cleaned starting Friday, then turned over to property company

University of Idaho students Ethan Chapin, 20, Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Madison Mogen, 21, were stabbed several times and murdered on Nov. 13.

www.foxnews.com

I realize it must be released at some point just feel it may be too soon.

Even then, with what appears to be blood dripping in the walls, Im not sure how they will clean the remaining blood from the internal studwork?

Maybe there are neutralising chemicals, but some plasterboard may have to come off inside.

If that is the case, maybe LE might want to be there in case DNA or fibres turn up.
AIMOO