ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 38

[layer]

Two of the girls (Kaylee and Maddie) were in the same bed. I believe that one of them was likely the target. The other one was probably killed because she awoke.

I hate to throw a wrench into the works, but...

Has it ever been verified there were 2 victims on each floor? I know they have stated that the victims were discovered on the second and third floors. I know SG has said that he deduced that K wasn't sleeping in her room because the bed looked "made" or something like that. This has led him, and pretty much everyone else to assume that K was sleeping with M.

But is it possible, however unlikely, that K was sleeping in the empty bedroom on the second floor that night?

ETA: Never mind, it's right there on the MPD King Road Homicides page. Thanks Which_pancake!
Hey, I ask the dumb questions so you don't have to!

 

[10ofRods]

Do we know or has it been released by LE exactly where Ethan and Xana's bodies were found? I think we have a pretty clear idea based on the information collected through various means that the other two were found in the same bed.

I am just curious as to where E and X were found. If it has been repeatedly spoken about I apologize.

We have no idea. I think it was a typo in DM's first article that placed EC "on the floor" as the entire paragraph appeared to be lifted from an article where it said "EC was on the second floor."

That may be the source of a persistent rumor that he was "on the floor." We now know that the "unconscious person" that the 911 called mentioned was made by one of the survivors and that they were referring to a victim who is a woman. That was in the news all day yesterday. I figure that none of the surviving roommates knew initially that Ethan was there, but called Ethan's phone when Xana didn't answer hers and found out that E didn't answer either, so they called E's brother and he said "They're not here either!" Must have been a terrible moment.

Coroner also mentioned X as having defensive wounds and said "some of the victims had defensive wounds," so we don't even know who the others (if any) might have been.

I figure the details are stuff they want the killer not to hear, so as not to refresh his mind about that night and to be able to show him pictures and take him by surprise when they bring him in. And I hope there's a big ole fat footprint right in the room if X and E were killed second.

OTOH, the amount of possible "blood mitigation" this murderer may have done (killing with mattresses and bedding all around; apparently not slashing arteries in the neck, etc), maybe we have a killer who is very careful about where he puts his feet.

It took 5 years for police to arrest Richard Allen in the "delphi murders" of the 2 young girls. Police said he was under their radar the whole time and was a local . In todays LE takes more time to get all the eveidence lined up for a convivtion probably due to all the publicity and in the Delphi case a suspected child murderer was left at large.Being sure of getting a conviction is what the prosecutor wants prior to charging a suspect. In this case I believe all leads have to be followed to show due diligence were followed up to prove beyond reasonable doubt. That will take a long time. So yes they may have suspect but won''t charge until investigation is complete.

That's not exactly true. At one point he was very much on their radar. IMO. Then someone lost his file.

Here's my big question K planned to graduate early and moved out in October. Where was she living while she finished her last semester? In Texas? Taking online classes?
Finished all her credits early?
At home with her parents? Staying with friends or with her ex?
I have not seen these questions answered in MSM but curious about who she lived with and met those past months. Could she have attracted a stalker? What about Austin? Where was she planning to live? and did she meet an unsavory character down in Texas? or at her new job?

If she had enough units to graduate before she ever started the semester, then IMO she would have received her degree and been listed on the list of December graduates - but she isn't.

If she had originally enrolled in all online classes (in order to complete some units - her major had capstone courses that had to be done for the degree), then why sign a sub-lease for 1122 King? Or was she just sort of paying rent and had nothing more than a month-to-month agreement?

One cannot "finish credits early" in a single semester, as registrars are required to put the final grade posting up at a certain time, during finals week (usually). It's an accreditation standard to keep unscrupulous instructors and students from handing out units at any point in the semester that they deem important - but the hours *must* be completed over a longer period, or else it's considered a correspondence course and those units cannot be transferred to most school. Fully online and Hybrid courses must follow all the rules for regular courses (regular meetings, X hours per week, final exam given, units awarded; X amount of time must pass - as short as 4 weeks, but I so far have found no 4 week classes at U of I except for "intersession" units).

I would guess that K was making new friends and contacts and that she had made friends, perhaps even met a new romantic interest,.in Texas. Perhaps that relationship required that she break up with her former boyfriend and after that, she felt she wanted to go ahead to Texas, earlier than planned. It's still possible she was taking fully online courses, though. Perhaps she got special permission to do the capstone course online as well.

I do not think any of her new friends in Austin are responsible for this, whatsoever. I do not think an unsavory character from Texas figured out where she was living (new place) and came into town to stalk and kill her and ended up killing most of her housemates.

 

[Past Mortem]

dbm

Very close to one of my pet theories. You laid it out nicely. I do feel there is a definite connection to one or more of the individuals who were murdered. It's possible there's a connection to the surviving roommates as well, but maybe their doors were locked (or, the assailant(s) had to get out of there faster than anticipated).

That tends to be my thought too re the surviving roommates… either locked doors, suddenly had to flee or injured. I think whatever the killers intentions were that night he had planned on leaving no survivors but thinks didn’t go in his favour for the last 2.

 

[303gmf]

I guess they have to turn the property over to the owner at some point. I was impressed with the pictures in a listing that was posted here. It was a very nice apartment, nicer than many I've seen. The owner appeared to keep it nice.

As Alex Murdaugh would screech
“it’s a house!”

 

[z0mer]

I hate to throw a wrench into the works, but...

Has it ever been verified there were 2 victims on each floor? I know they have stated that the victims were discovered on the second and third floors. I know SG has said that he deduced that K wasn't sleeping in her room because the bed looked "made" or something like that. This has led him, and pretty much everyone else to assume that K was sleeping with M.

But is it possible, however unlikely, that K was sleeping in the empty bedroom on the second floor that night?

Maybe the killer locked the bedroom doors. The 911 call for example was about help for an unconscious person.

 

[layer]

I run these theorized scenarios in my mind over and over. The last couple of days, it being a professional had to have done this. (JMO) Then I read a post such as yours, and it throws me back to it had to be someone very familiar with the entire house. Furniture included. For some strange reason, my mind keeps questioning how did a stranger move quickly through that house so stealthily without stubbing his/her toe or bumping into walls or furniture?

It's pretty clear that the house was in a dark dark neighborhood. But I wonder just how dark they kept the common areas in that house at night. All those fairy lights and such. Maybe they never turned them off.

 

[Which_pancake]

I hate to throw a wrench into the works, but...

Has it ever been verified there were 2 victims on each floor? I know they have stated that the victims were discovered on the second and third floors. I know SG has said that he deduced that K wasn't sleeping in her room because the bed looked "made" or something like that. This has led him, and pretty much everyone else to assume that K was sleeping with M.

But is it possible, however unlikely, that K was sleeping in the empty bedroom on the second floor that night?

The summary on the Moscow PD website says

"Officers entered the residence and found two victims on the second floor and two victims on the third floor."

 

[CityKid]

I have to disagree without you on that. I have known quite a few women that age who dated men at least a few years older. Undergraduate females dating men in grad school is exceedingly common. I would guess that a three-year age difference is average, in fact.

I doubt doubt that he was rejected by women, but it wouldn't have been because of his age, in my opinion; rather, it would have been because he was physically unattractive, socially awkward, or both.

A successful 25-year-old guy with a good career might be attractive to some college women. A 25-year-old guy still hanging out on campus wouldn't attract those same college women. IMO.

 

[layer]

The summary on the Moscow PD website says

"Officers entered the residence and found two victims on the second floor and two victims on the third floor."

Cool, thanks!

 

[10ofRods]

I’ve wondered the same thing. I find it really unusual that I’ve yet to read or see anything on social media about the girls friends or sorority sisters or locals even commenting on their inside knowledge. I mean I’ve seen the former roommate theory and fraternity ones… but no one actually close to four victims.

Really makes me curious as to why? Especially considering the age of the victims and their friends and love of social media.

Because LE quickly asked them not to, probably by contacting the presidents or RA's of the various places they lived.

Most people would not want to talk to MSM if there was still a violent knife killer around and they were in any way witnesses - and I"m sure LE has individually warned each person they've talked to.

Usually it is the responsibility of the owner. I guess that article just says the police "enlisted" a company. Maybe the police just made the arrangments and the owner is paying for it. I'm sure the police are keeping it under their control while it is being cleaned to keep curious people from coming in.

My area has victim assistance dollars to pay landlords and homeowners for crime scene clean-up. I'm guessing Moscow does too,

I had no idea that this was a common thing. I know of an instance at a college where an individual who is just as you described was accused of rape. The college really could do nothing about him unless the victim pressed charges. He did not technically live on campus, or attend classes, so he could not be expelled. He could not be investigated as a student because he wasn’t one. He “stayed” in a frat house and preyed on new students at some of their first college parties, girls who had drank too much and felt shame and were reluctant to prosecute with all that goes along with that. Does everyone involved in college life know of these types? Your words scared me.

It can get really weird. There are such students at my campus who, after several years, I sort of trust - I mean, if they stop by my office hour, I quickly let the admin assist know by email and she will come by and check to make sure the person is responding to my gentle inquiries about why they are there (I know they're not a student, but there's no law saying that non-students can't avail themselves of faculty office hours - so the admin assist will often say, "Can I see you about something?" and I'll get to leave the situation. I've had such students wait outside the building, even follow me to my car.

Keep in mind that I've been a full time faculty member for 40 years, part of which I was living on a campus. My entire life revolves around campus life, and I know lots of other faculty. I served on our safety committee (and on a Chancellor's safety committee) for years. People often come to me with odd stories, asking if they should report a student or non-student. I am very friendly with campus police and we've planned/done many trainings together.

So I do see more of the negative side of such people, although I also (right now) am aiding one of these students to try and get himself situated in a more stable place. I also have colleagues who have retired over student stalkers - almost always no longer students, btw. When students fail out of school or their financial aid ends, they are definitely at risk for drugs, petty crime, other crime and sometimes totally blame professors (or other students). That's one reason why most students won't report cheating,,

 

[WildWest]

It's pretty clear that the house was in a dark dark neighborhood. But I wonder just how dark they kept the common areas in that house at night. All those fairy lights and such. Maybe they never turned them off.

What caught my interest is that in the Sept noise complaint LE the driveway door light was either burned out of off, but not in other pics I've seen.

 

[Omega Man]

I run these theorized scenarios in my mind over and over. The last couple of days, it being a professional had to have done this. (JMO) Then I read a post such as yours, and it throws me back to it had to be someone very familiar with the entire house. Furniture included. For some strange reason, my mind keeps questioning how did a stranger move quickly through that house so stealthily without stubbing his/her toe or bumping into walls or furniture?

NVG monocular? Or he broke in some time before he decided to attack this house? Or both? Otherwise, going in blind with a knife knowing there are at least 4 people there (and he must have known that) makes no sense at all. To me at least.

 

[Past Mortem]

I have the add in, I agree with you as to there being some type of previous crime. I wasn’t overly clear in my post, but I think it was his first crime of this nature (violence - sexual or otherwise). I think he would have committed other type crimes that I will label petty (dealing or similar).

 

[Stratocaster]

When all the dust settles and there's a conviction....

I hope the house is destroyed and a small picturesque memorial park is built, maybe with some memorial sitting benches or a tribute garden, or maybe some trees planted.

 

[drmrgrl]

I don't think this was done by a serial killer. The police probably have the killer's DNA by now, and they are not linking it to any other murders. A serial killer would have killed before. This appears to be a first-time killing, at least according to some of the profilers. I would guess the motive is rage/revenge. The police have said this was a "targeted killing," with an unusual degree of rage directed at KG, which suggests that the killer knew the victims. If he was comfortable entering the house and shutting the dog in a room, I would guess he had probably been to the house before. I have to wonder how many young men (the perp was probably male, given the strength required to commit the murders) knew the victims well enough to have some kind of beef with them AND drove a 2011-2013 white Hyundai Elantra? I would think the pool of possible suspects must be fairly small ...

IMO first time revenge killer

 

[x_files]

IMO, The murder of Brian Harvey in Richmond VA on NewYears Day of 2006?. Home invaders slit the throats of Bryan, his wife and two young daughters and than set fire to the home to cover up the murders. There were initially three invaders, but two of them killed the third. These two gentlemen were tried and convicted right away and sentenced to death. Both perps have been executed and are no longer with us. This was such a horrific crime. Harvey was a talented local musician with a pretty, popular wife and two blond little girls. The killers , unbelievably, ended up choosing the house at random because they ended up on the wrong street. Harvey came out for his morning newspaper and that’s when they struck. 3 of the 4 family members were ushered into the basement of their house and were tied to chairs. Some time later, the eldest daughter arrived home from a sleepover. Harvey’s wife was untied to answer the door to retrieve her daughter. The daughter happily ran into the house and down to the basement before the wife could restrain her. The neighbor noticed that Mrs. Harvey was out of sorts and jumpy. Neighbor left. At 1pm, guests arrived for the chili cook-off and found the house up in smoke. This whole family of four was annihilated in the early AM hrs of New Years Day of 2005, 2006? This was an unbelievably chilling murder and arson.

I've watched Homicide for the Holidays and an elderly couple was murdered for money so the motive was a robbery and ended up in kidnapping taking the man to the bank to withdraw 8k and then killing them both so they couldn't call the cops. Since they were strangers the two men in their 20';s were local troublemakers but had no real connection to the couple it took several decades to solve the crime.
Long story short two men in their twenties targeted the elderly couple who owned a Christmas Tree farm because they looked like they'd have money. Since no connection, it took longer to connect them to the crime.

 

[WildWest]

When all the dust settles and there's a conviction....

I hope the house is destroyed and a small picturesque memorial park is built, maybe with some memorial sitting benches or a tribute garden, or maybe some trees planted.

We'll see, MPD stated the owner(s) are starting remidiation.

 

[jigjc]

Here is a story from 2016 of a former student (2013 graduate), still living in his former college town who broke into his ex girlfirend/new boyfriends home in the middle of the night and killed them with a knife. He also killed himself.

This seems to be the type of "college hanger-on" person being discussed.
Obviously the suicide makes this case different - but maybe something can be learned from it.

Police: Break-up was motive in Geneseo double murder-suicide

Geneseo, N.Y. - Geneseo Police said the deaths of three people in Geneseowere related to a break-up between two of the three victims.All three were found dead early Sunday morning in an upstairs bedroom of a house on Wadsworth Street.The victims were late

13wham.com

 

[CityKid]

I’ve wondered the same thing. I find it really unusual that I’ve yet to read or see anything on social media about the girls friends or sorority sisters or locals even commenting on their inside knowledge. I mean I’ve seen the former roommate theory and fraternity ones… but no one actually close to four victims.

Really makes me curious as to why? Especially considering the age of the victims and their friends and love of social media.

I've been thinking about three films lately. Spoilers ahead for these 20+ year-old movies. Mock me if you wish for my reductive views of these movie themes!
I Know What You Did Last Summer: When you've got a bunch of people complicit in a crime, some will start dying or squealing, but none will never be free of what they did.
Heathers: (applicable here) Sometimes the girls that seem super popular aren't generally as popular as you might think.
To Die For: In the spring thaw, just beneath the ice, things will come to light.

 

[Crosscntrymom]

Compared to previous updates, did the Chief look more “relieved” today?