ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 39

[NuttMegg]

I don't really get it, he has the killer entering on the 1st floor, I doubt that. Also Gray is pretty firm in his theory that EC and XK were killed first, that also is not my theory.

He's got some program that models, accurately, the dimensions of the house, he's been working on it for a long time.

I hadn't noticed before that the stairs are partly above that 1st floor bedroom. Unless someone in that bedroom has learned to tune out noises, it sure seems like they would hear people using those stairs.

Anyway I don't think he entered from the first floor, as I mentioned before I doubt that the first floor girls were part of the plan. Nor were EC and XK for that matter. But that's just how I see it.

 

[NuttMegg]

IMO, this whole scene is so ominous with the creepy music and that dog just sitting there staring…there are no words..

Yeah, I know. I live on a different continent but I got up to close the door I often leave ajar for my pups. This crime really creeps me out like no other has.

 

[al66pine]

I have quite a few rentals. If this tragedy occurred in one of them, I would demolish the house and sell the land. I would never be able to rent it out or walk into it without reliving that nightmare.

@TIGER0822 Thanks for responding, and I realize that would be your personal choice. And one that some ppl would not be inclined to make for financial reasons alone. Each to their own.

Nonetheless, if you would sell, I'm curious --- why raze the house & incur extra expenses before selling, if you do not mind sharing. TiA.

 

[drmrgrl]

I don't really get it, he has the killer entering on the 1st floor, I doubt that. Also Gray is pretty firm in his theory that EC and XK were killed first, that also is not my theory.

He's got some program that models, accurately, the dimensions of the house, he's been working on it for a long time.

I hadn't noticed before that the stairs are partly above that 1st floor bedroom. Unless someone in that bedroom has learned to tune out noises, it sure seems like they would hear people using those stairs.

Anyway I don't think he entered from the first floor, as I mentioned before I doubt that the first floor girls were part of the plan. Nor were EC and XK for that matter. But that's just how I see it.

Agreed. IMO, the perp came in via slider and exited via slider.

 

[nightrider17]

what's bugging me is: -

Normally a party house - no party on that night!!!

KG had moved out but KG returned that weekend to catch up with MM and show her new car

All residents and EC home by 1.56am having been out separately

Messages on phone between KG and MM to JD from 2.26 to 2.52 am

30 minutes at home before messages - eating, maybe catching up with others?

Murders between 3.00 - 4.00


I am kind of perplexed about the CC photo release - whoever thought it was relevant to release it (whether for money or other reason) I am a bit surprised to see the people in that photo. Cannot put my finger on why? or if its relevant or not???.

If the POI was not ever planning to take out 4 people - this particular weekend he had that opportunity.

MOO

 

[Stratocaster]

I don't really get it, he has the killer entering on the 1st floor, I doubt that. Also Gray is pretty firm in his theory that EC and XK were killed first, that also is not my theory.

He's got some program that models, accurately, the dimensions of the house, he's been working on it for a long time.

I hadn't noticed before that the stairs are partly above that 1st floor bedroom. Unless someone in that bedroom has learned to tune out noises, it sure seems like they would hear people using those stairs.

Anyway I don't think he entered from the first floor, as I mentioned before I doubt that the first floor girls were part of the plan. Nor were EC and XK for that matter. But that's just how I see it.

Just watching the video is chilling, I personally think he wasn't taking his time walking thru the house, his adrenaline would have been sky high and heart beating a mile a minute as he was 'running' thru the house.

Also think killer went upstairs to K/M first then encountered E/X on the way out possibly.

If the order of the killings were reversed from this, and by all acounts there was 'a battle' on the middle floor, possibly K/M would have heard the brutal commotion, awoke and tried to physically block their door.

MOO

 

[Emerald1328]

IMO, I think it’s clear that the owners of the house are not going to demo it since someone is coming tomorrow to start the remediation process. Insurance is likely covering this. The owners would have the option of either having the insurance company pay for the remediation and repairs, or if they were interested in demo’ing it, they could have the insurance company provide them with an estimate for the remediation and repairs and just pay that amount to the owners directly without going ahead with any work. The owners could then apply that money towards paying off the mortgage to mitigate their loss. Since remediation starts tomorrow, IMO they are getting it ready for occupancy again eventually.

 

[NuttMegg]

Agreed. IMO, the perp came in via slider and exited via slider.

On second thought, I may have missed the point of the video, maybe he is just theorizing on how /where the were found, not the order in which they were killed.

The title is "Is this where they were found?".

But from watching him now and then, I know his theory is that E/X were killed first, unless he's done a turnabout.

 

[10ofRods]

So if this Case goes unsolved with no arrest where do you think it ranks with other unsolved murder mysteries? I guess Jon Boney Ramsey would be the closest comparison in my lifetime.

For me, it's a little more like Suzanne Morphew, because while I have my own views about the Jon Benet case, I am not as convinced that I know exactly what happened as I have been with Suzanne - and this case, to me, has only a few logical solutions.

If it's not solved, it's a tragedy and I am going to believe that there's a crazed killer on the loose - and he's no longer in Idaho. He's going to head to some other college town, as he knows just how vulnerable such houses and such young people are. He's already been unnoticed in one, despite perhaps being around long enough to plan this crime.

The housing area of my campus has major numbers of cameras (indoors and out) and 24 hours a day of cadets actually sitting and watching them (they cycle through various areas on campus - they cannot watch all cameras at once, but there's AI to help focus on areas where people are moving around - and alerts if there are people in places they don't belong at night, like the classroom buildings and the library). A shooter was caught on camera and police sent (in a great pattern, using the camera information) before the first shot. Shots were fired (no one was hurt) and the communication from the camera watchers allowed LE to capture the person without him being aware of their approach.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I think the doggo is still pretty young and has been so socialized with so many people in and out of the house, people always petting and playing with him that I would bet any stranger could go in there and the pup would prob just welcome them... When the violence began I bet he went and hid

Both my dogs were/are like that. Friendly if we were home. When a contractor came by during our remodel new house/update old house phase, they would run upstairs and hide at the old house. Every couple of hours, the contractor would call treat time and make sure they went outside.

 

[Snoop Sister]

I don't really get it, he has the killer entering on the 1st floor, I doubt that. Also Gray is pretty firm in his theory that EC and XK were killed first, that also is not my theory.

He's got some program that models, accurately, the dimensions of the house, he's been working on it for a long time.

I hadn't noticed before that the stairs are partly above that 1st floor bedroom. Unless someone in that bedroom has learned to tune out noises, it sure seems like they would hear people using those stairs.

Anyway I don't think he entered from the first floor, as I mentioned before I doubt that the first floor girls were part of the plan. Nor were EC and XK for that matter. But that's just how I see it.

I think the killer entered the side balcony slider door on the second floor. Otherwise, it looks good. Definitely a lot of work involved!

 

[10ofRods]

what's bugging me is: -

Normally a party house - no party on that night!!!

KG had moved out but KG returned that weekend to catch up with MM and show her new car

All residents and EC home by 1.56am having been out separately

Messages on phone between KG and MM to JD from 2.26 to 2.52 am

30 minutes at home before messages - eating, maybe catching up with others?

Murders between 3.00 - 4.00


I am kind of perplexed about the CC photo release - whoever thought it was relevant to release it (whether for money or other reason) I am a bit surprised to see the people in that photo. Cannot put my finger on why? or if its relevant or not???.

If the POI was not ever planning to take out 4 people - this particular weekend he had that opportunity.

MOO

If you look at calendars of campus events for that weekend, it looks like (per tradition on Veterans Day weekend), Friday night was sorority sponsored formals (and some other, artsy events) and Saturday night was several fraternity parties, plus football pre- and post-parties.

What I've heard from MSM is that while this was a party house, it specialized in pre-parties for other events (so get togethers, with drinking, before the main parties started). Obviously, on some nights early in the semester, the parties at 1122 went on longer than just 9 pm.

Plus, they had been visited several times by LE (we don't know how many) and maybe they decided it might be nice to go someplace else. K had moved out. Did she move out because she didn't like being point person for all these noise complaints and underage drinking issues?

And Gray's walk-through maps are good, but I think he has the size of some places off.

 

[NuttMegg]

Just watching the video is chilling, I personally think he wasn't taking his time walking thru the house, his adrenaline would have been sky high and heart beating a mile a minute as he was 'running' thru the house.

Also think killer went upstairs to K/M first then encountered E/X on the way out possibly.

If the order of the killings were reversed from this, and by all acounts there was 'a battle' on the middle floor, possibly K/X would have heard the brutal commotion, awoke and tried to physically block their door.

MOO

I place a lot of confidence in SG saying that the coroner told him there was a "hell of a battle " on the second floor. I just can't see this battle having occurred then the killer going upstairs. From what little we know about target(s) at this point, just common sense tells me he started with the girls on the 3 rd floor, then was surprised by E and/ or X, the battle occurred and he shot out the back door, probably expecting that the 1st floor ppl had to have heard.

Edited to make it clear that came from SG, not that the coroner is quoted in print or by other people as having said that, re hell of a battle on 2nd floor.

 

[SophieRose]

RAZING the HOUSE?
@sleepingmonkey
Yes, exactly. And sometimes an owner-occupier continues living there or an owner renting the house continues renting it out.

BTW, anyone think current owner who has $$$ equity in the prop (anywhere from say $100,000 to $400,000, my sci. wild azz guess) will say to self, Yep, I'll pay to have it razed, then landscaped, and donate to the city?

Not that any post explicitly said that ^, but imo others implied it in previous threads and cases. imo jmo moo

Remember the Savopoulos case, four murdered in DC including a young boy, perp set fire to house to destroy evidence. The house was bought way under price, address changed, razed, then bought again with plans to rebuild that fell apart. Newest owner has it on the market again.

DC mansion where 4 people were murdered put on the market for $3.25M

The five-bedroom, seven-bath brick mansion was the site of a shocking quadruple homicide in May targeting Savvas Savoupoulos, his wife, 10-year-old son and their housekeeper.

www.dailymail.co.uk

3201 Woodland Dr NW, Washington, DC 20008 | Zillow

3201 Woodland Dr NW, Washington DC, is a Vacant Land home.This home last sold for $2,600,000 in August 2021. The Rent Zestimate for this Vacant Land is $20,563/mo, which has increased by $20,563/mo in the last 30 days.

www.zillow.com

 

[10ofRods]

I place a lot of confidence in SG relating what the coroner said about a "hell of a battle " on the second floor. I just can't see this battle having occurred then the killer going upstairs. From what little we know about target(s) at this point, just common sense tells me he started with the girls on the 3 rd floor, then was surprised by E and/ or X, the battle occurred and he shot out the back door, probably expecting that the 1st floor ppl had to have heard.

The coroner didn't say that. If they did - source?

These are SG's words. We don't know what the coroner actually said. That being said, I will say that I put SG's statements into the balance, he should not be disregarded.

It's just that no one official has ever said anything remotely like that, that I know of.

I can see it happening either way. Personally, I don't think there was a hell of a battle when the Coroner first said they were all asleep and didn't suffer and then said one had defensive wounds, then said "some" had defensive wounds. I picture minor wounds to the hands and arms. Coroner has said they were in bed or asleep on more than one occasion. Any evidence she's walked it back?

I await the autopsy reports at this point - if we ever get to see them.

 

[sleepingmonkey]

Colorado house where Chris Watts killed his wife and daughters sells

The house in Colorado where convicted murderer Chris Watts strangled his pregnant wife before murdering their two daughters has been sold for $600,000.

www.dailymail.co.uk

New owner of JonBenet Ramsey death house speaks out

Tim and Carol Milner and their five children moved into the Boulder, Colorado home once owned by the Ramsey family in 2004, paying $1million.

www.dailymail.co.uk

People still go to high school at Columbine and to see movies at the theater. Not me!!!

 

[maskedwoman]

RAZING the HOUSE?
@sleepingmonkey
Yes, exactly. And sometimes an owner-occupier continues living there or an owner renting the house continues renting it out.

BTW, anyone think current owner who has $$$ equity in the prop (anywhere from say $100,000 to $400,000, my sci. wild azz guess) will say to self, Yep, I'll pay to have it razed, then landscaped, and donate to the city?

Not that any post explicitly said that ^, but imo others implied it in previous threads and cases. imo jmo moo

The way I look at it - the property owner is a financial victim here. We don't know how many properties they own. This could be a major financial disruption for them. If the owner is financially able to make some kind of major gesture, the victims' families would probably appreciate it. But, I do think they have every right to continue earning income from their property.

 

[Shamrock1]

I would assume the homeowner's insurance would be covering the clean up costs, could it be the State? I know that bio hazard cleanups like this are extremely expensive, and that just the cleaning and disinfecting, not to mention the repairs/replacement from where floors and even subfloors, drywall, carpeting maybe evening ceilings would have to be removed.

Im in the auto industry and this process was done to a stolen recovered vehicle where the thief cut, what had to be an artery from breaking the door glass because the amount of blood he left. You wouldn't believe the places in this car that the blood traveled to.

It’s the responsibility of the owner, not police. Insurance may cover cleaning. And it’s likely significantly less expensive than an unattended death or hoarding situation. JMO. After investigators are done, who cleans up a crime scene? The humanity, horror of the job | Crime/Police | theadvocate.com

 

[NuttMegg]

For me, it's a little more like Suzanne Morphew, because while I have my own views about the Jon Benet case, I am not as convinced that I know exactly what happened as I have been with Suzanne - and this case, to me, has only a few logical solutions.

If it's not solved, it's a tragedy and I am going to believe that there's a crazed killer on the loose - and he's no longer in Idaho. He's going to head to some other college town, as he knows just how vulnerable such houses and such young people are. He's already been unnoticed in one, despite perhaps being around long enough to plan this crime.

The housing area of my campus has major numbers of cameras (indoors and out) and 24 hours a day of cadets actually sitting and watching them (they cycle through various areas on campus - they cannot watch all cameras at once, but there's AI to help focus on areas where people are moving around - and alerts if there are people in places they don't belong at night, like the classroom buildings and the library). A shooter was caught on camera and police sent (in a great pattern, using the camera information) before the first shot. Shots were fired (no one was hurt) and the communication from the camera watchers allowed LE to capture the person without him being aware of their approach.

I feel like I know what happened to Suzanne, or at least who did it. It leaves me so helpless and angry. Especially being deserted, imo, by her immediate family. But with JBR I feel about 90% confident about what happened, but it leaves me sad.

On another topic, you often talk about DNA, I was reviewing that Robert C Hansen murder case where he left so many girls dead in the woods after he hunted them. Some were never identified. But I just found out that last year one of the victims was identified, 37 years later. I think they matched it to one of those trace your dna programs, then a family member helped out with the final, exact match.

 

[Trino]

So if this Case goes unsolved with no arrest where do you think it ranks with other unsolved murder mysteries? I guess Jon Boney Ramsey would be the closest comparison in my lifetime.

Betsy Aardsma 1969. Stabbed to death in the Penn State LIBRARY. Murdered on school property. No arrests ever.