ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 53

[Diogenetic]

Personally, the DNA part is the weaker one IMHO.

But - the car with one set of plates is a strong one.

I will respectfully disagree. the car and the phone signals data don't put him inside the house, or associate him with the likely murder weapon. The DNA does. The DNA is the only thing that puts him in the house with virtual certainty.

I agree with us here not judging the surviving roommate's actions due to shock and other factors, but that doesn't mean we can't note that a defense attorney wont go after her credibility.

And to given she said he had a mask on, she almost certainly is not going to rise to the level of a definitive eyewitness identification of Kuhberger.

The phone signals and car just could be explained say he had a crush and inappropriately obsessed, which is not even a crime. The DNA evidence is orders of magnitude more difficult for the defense to explain

 

[Boodles]

Do you all surmise that the trip south past Clarkston, WA then out near Johnson ID was to dispose of the knife and/or other evidence? Where was he after he pinged near Johnson ID for 3 hours? And I wonder what he was buying at Albertsons. It could be something benign…or not.

 

[sleepingmonkey]

He must have kept all garbage in his apartment, too scared to throw it out bc he probably knows enough to know they could collect it. Also, bc they had to wait to get dna from his parents house to connect him to the murders.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Just wondering if X and E were not targets and only were killed because X was awake and in the main area of the home. Doesn't change anything, just curious.
IMO

IMO, he wanted to kill "the gang of 4" long time friends/pairs of close friends (all students & friends for a few years or longer who hung out together), whom he targeted specifically, and he didn't care about the other 2 housemates. The other 2 housemates [ETD info about ages, couldn't confirm]... didn't have the same status/closeness as the 4 did socially.

Posted in more detail about this "hypothesis" in a previous thread (as to why all/just the 4 of them could have been his targets).

Known facts:
X & M worked at a restaurant that served vegan cuisine (the Mad Greek in Moscow: Mad Greek - Menu: their menu says "Ask your server about our Vegetarian and Vegan options")
BK is a vegan
BK has a history of harassing female waitstaff (the brewery in PA: Bryan Kohberger harassed women at Pennsylvania brewery: report)

Speculation:
BK could have gone to the Mad Greek on one or more occasion to eat the vegan cuisine they serve
M &/or X were working when he came in and he did it again (sexual harassment of female waitstaff) with one or both of them
One or both of them &/or their manager/shift supervisor confronted him about his behavior &/or told their "besties" (E & K) about it
BK was "triggered" (for lack of a better word) by being called on his behavior & not being allowed to pursue a relationship with one of the attractive females working there
BK started following/stalking X &/or M and saw the 4 of them together after that (X, her boyfriend E, M, her bestfriend K), and came to see them as a "unit" he needed to go after (for whatever his sick reasons were, we may never know or understand)
BK bought a deadly knife with the purpose of doing 1 or all 4 of them harm

JMOO

 

[Jaxxypants]

Whose bedroom is the one circled in green?
Source
Blueprints show where each Idaho student was found stabbed to death

I believe it to be dylans bedroom as the killer would have to walk past to exit the house via the back slider.
Also the unidentified “stains” on the outside wall would not come from the circled bedroom

 

[Angie777]

Kudos to LE! While they were being publicly reviled, they clearly already had a great deal of information and were steadily collecting more. This case is so inexplicably bizarre. <modsnip - off limits> Given how LE has managed to keep so much information private, I suspect they have more DNA than that found on the knife sheath. The fact that they had cops scouting out BK's hands through the bogus "traffic stops" in Indiana indicates they may have also have DNA from his blood from the crime scene (assuming he cut himself during the stabbings). I hope, for the victims' families' sakes, that the suspect will confess and not put the families through a protracted trial.

 

[hockeymom]

I agree - he might have seen them at Mad Greek (I think the PCA mentions some other places too, but I need to reread). He may have followed several other young women, as well, gradually closing in on his "perfect target." Interestingly, the street light nearest 1122 (at the apartment complex nearby) was inoperable that night. It was fixed afterwards (it's' in the media thread somewhere, impossible to find right now, so IMO, MOO),

Their house was his best target - and that may be why LE says he "targeted the house." They might have pings showing him lurking around other places too. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he found himself at parties in Moscow, after his vegan meal at Mad Greek (falafel, cucumbers, tomatoes, dolmades).

"Crossing paths" is the best way to put it.

I wondered as well, if phone pings will show him either in the vicinity of one or more of the victims at other places around town in the weeks or days before, or as you said, were there other people he followed and chose these 4 victims?

 

[clearskies1]

Confused by the articles stating that genetic genealogy was used in this case to identify the perp. Affidavit doesn't mention this, unless its a verbiage thing and people are referring to the comparison of DNA on the sheath button to trash at dad's as "genetic genealogy."

Yes, I assume it's because it was from his family's trash, not definitely his personal DNA.

 

[DeDee]

Thank God he lost his knife sheath with his DNA on it at the crime scene.

The PCA was horrible to read. May he get the death penalty if found guilty.

"As I entered this bedroom, I could see two females in the single bed in the room. Both Goncalves and Mogen were deceased with visible stab wounds. I also later noticed what appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath laying on the bed next to Mogen's right side (when viewed from the door). The sheath was later processed and had "Ka-Bar" 'USMC" and the United States Marine Corps eagle globe and anchor insignia stamped on the outside of it. The Idaho state lab later located a single source of male DNA (suspect Profile) left on the button snap of the knife sheath."

Probable cause affidavit in case of University of Idaho murders released

The probable cause affidavit in the case of State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger has been released. Kohberger is accused of killing four University of Idaho students in November. The affidavit documents an eye witness account from a surviving roommate in the house on the night of the murders...

www.boisestatepublicradio.org

Yes! So, Bryan wipes the knife's sheath clean of all prints but when he gets to the Crime Scene, he's like "Uh, oh. I've gotta touch my sheath when I unsnap the button to remove my KABAR."
He removes the KABAR and drops the sheath like a calling card next to Maddie. :facepalm:

Or he wiped his sheath down but not good enough around the snap and he wore gloves to the CS.

The sheath and the IDed Van shoe print fries him along with the DNA and electronic data. Plus an eye witness, if she's capable. Did this guy expect to not get caught?

I have the deepest sympathy for his parents and two sisters. Wonder if they'll still emotionally support him after reading this document.

MHOO

 

[threesevenninefour]

Having just read the probable cause affidavit, what stood out for me is this:

"One of these occasions, on August 21,2022, the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m." (page 16)

I then checked the closing time for the Greek restaurant where Xana and Madison worked. On Saturday, August 21, the restaurant closed at 10 PM.

It's possible that Aug 21 was the beginning of the stalking, where the suspect followed one or both girls from work to their house. He was at the house 12 times in the late evening or early morning (excluding one occasion) between August and November. That's roughly four times a month, once a week.

Ethan was a guest, Kaylee had moved out, so Xana and Madison were expected to be at the house. One of the tenants who was not murdered was obviously not a target if the suspect walked past her (unless he was in a zone and didn't see her). He was in some sort of zone to leave the knife sheath on Madison's bed.

At this time, it seems like Xana and Madison were the targets, Ethan and Kaylee were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

This is actually extremely compelling information…I may have missed it but do we know how long Maddie and Xana had been working at Mad Greek?

 

[currents]

I have been reading this website for a long time but I don’t think I’ve ever actually posted anything. I just want to share my personal story of not calling the police when someone tried to break into my home. If I didn’t have this experience, I would also be questioning why DM didn’t call police sooner. This is lengthy so I apologize.

In my early 20’s I fell asleep in my condo on the living room couch with all the lights on. I woke up around 3am to hearing someone trying to open my front door. I thought it was my roommate arriving home early from her overnight shift. I realized it was not her when the person continued to struggle with the lock, dropping something, jiggling the knob, etc. for a few minutes. I sat in silence confused and eventually after the noise stopped I decide to call my boyfriend. He got to my home quickly and couldn’t find anyone. He came inside and we went to sleep. In the morning when I left for work, I found an outdoor lightbulb next to my door unscrewed and the outdoor hallway fire extinguisher laying in the yard. I still just thought “hmm that’s weird“ but still my brain wanted to think it was nothing sinister.

It wasn’t until later when I got home from work I ran into a female neighbor who lives in a building next to mine, about 20 feet away. She wanted to warn me that someone tried to break into her home the previous night. She was awake sometime around midnight watching tv in her living room when a shirtless male tried to open her sliding glass door. She called the police right away and they searched for him, even brought out the canine but found no one.

I knew it had to be the same person because what are the odds? This means that a man seemingly was targeting homes where he KNEW someone was home and awake and tried to break in, even returning to the same area just a few hours after cops were at scene. This man was either very brave or dangerous or under the influence or all of the above. My neighbor insisted I make a report because she was pretty scared. She even adopted a big dog after this incident because she felt so scared living alone. It was only after she spoke with me that I realized I was probably in danger that night.

I think sometimes our brains don‘t want to believe the worst. My stomach still turns when I think about that night and it was over 10 years ago. I still feel vulnerable as a female living alone.

I get that my experience was not the same as I didn’t see him with my eyes, and my perp didn’t murder anyone, but I did quietly sit “frozen” and listen while he continued to try to pick my lock and fumble with items just feet away from where I was. Was he going to try to use the fire extinguisher to smash my window? Did he hide and watch my boyfriend come inside and decide to move on? I feel so terrible for DM. I cannot imagine the survivors guilt she must be feeling. I don’t know if sharing this long personal story is against the rules here or anything, but I just thought it might be helpful to some that don’t understand why she didn’t call police. I think my brain was in some sort of denial that some random person tried to break in. I do hope and assume she is getting the emotional support and professional therapy she needs.

yeah exactly. it's weird how our brains can't always process something immediately, especially in stressful situations. probably also to protect us, but still.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Why was that one page redacted ? Was it the description of how E was attacked ? Could he possiblly have been the main target or just attacked more violently as first victim ?

Ethan would've been a bigger guy than BK and might've been harder for BK to silence.

 

[LoveyluvsThurston]

Now they have his car and it looks like it hadn't been detailed since the murders will be interesting to see if they have blood/dna from the victims in there. I'm hoping so.

Me too! I hope you are right!

 

[10ofRods]

That would be checkmate.

So would finding a receipt for the knife on his computer (or evidence of its mail order sale in his email).

I personally think it's already checkmate (beyond reasonable doubt) but yeah, nail in the coffin type material. And I do think they'll find it.

OTOH, perhaps he was prepared with plastic bags and such and it will be miniscule amounts (that latent footprint was gained with luminol/other special analysis). If it was already nearly invisible inside the house, that explains why no footprint markers on the deck.

But in my heart, I do believe they will find ample victim DNA in that car, because he's a dum-dum (I think it's permissible for me to say that at this point).

 

[dubster]

Have to give props to these police officers and detectives involved. How they managed to not tell everyone and basically pretend to not have some of this information is beyond me. Also, how they held it together during these press conferences knowing a lot of this information. I am barely holding it together just reading it on my computer screen.

That so true, my hats off to them, they have my utmost respect

 

[Diogenetic]

True that one of the survivors saw him, but with the mask I am not sure she would be able to actually identify him. The only thing she mentioned was bushy eyebrows. But I think that other evidence that was in the indictment along with other evidence LE most likely has will be more than enough. MOO

100% agreed. From what we have seen in the affidavit, it does not look like it rises to level of definitive id yo would need to convict someone of murder. It might combined with car hits but it is DNA that is the big piece we have seen.

And as you note 90% of the evidence LE and prosecution have may have -- and may get in interim to trial -- is likely not not be on that probable cause document. For example there likley has been a warrant to obtain younger kuhbergers dna directly.

 

[eloquence]

IMO, he wanted to kill "the gang of 4" long time friends/pairs of close friends (all students & friends for a few years or longer who hung out together), whom he targeted specifically, and he didn't care about the other 2 housemates. The other 2 housemates were much younger (freshmen) and new to the scene (just arrived in September), and were "little sisters" of theirs in the sororities, but didn't have the same status/closeness as the 4 did socially.

I agree with the rest of your post, but the other roommates are both 21 and seniors. They were close friends but not childhood friends like the other three. They all very often posted together on instagram so I think the more natural association would be the 5 roommates, not the 4 he chose to kill. I do wonder why he left DM unscathed though.

 

[Which_pancake]

Having just read the probable cause affidavit, what stood out for me is this:

"One of these occasions, on August 21,2022, the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m." (page 16)

I then checked the closing time for the Greek restaurant where Xana and Madison worked. On Saturday, August 21, the restaurant closed at 10 PM.

It's possible that Aug 21 was the beginning of the stalking, where the suspect followed one or both girls from work to their house. He was at the house 12 times in the late evening or early morning (excluding one occasion) between August and November. That's roughly four times a month, once a week.

Ethan was a guest, Kaylee had moved out, so Xana and Madison were expected to be at the house. One of the tenants who was not murdered was obviously not a target if the suspect walked past her (unless he was in a zone and didn't see her). He was in some sort of zone to leave the knife sheath on Madison's bed.

At this time, it seems like Xana and Madison were the targets, Ethan and Kaylee were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Is it possible he was at a party there, or in the area (on August 21)? Ah hour is a long time to just be lurking. I'm not sure he would blend in to a college party, but maybe he was visiting someone? Just speculating

 

[Ray_of_hope]

Yes, I will be interested to find out what they were able to get from the car, including some more DNA evidence of BK's to match with what was on the sheath.

Looks like he must have wiped down the sheath if the only DNA was on the button. Hope they find more too.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I wonder if they could follow the path after the pings resumed to look for the knife? The PCA indicates they have the phone traveling south on ID state highway 95 to Genesee, ID, then traveling west towards 13Uniontown, ID, and then north back into Pullman, WA.