ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 55

[Tranquileyes]

It would be interesting to know how often he turns his cell phone off during a regular week. My children and even I almost never have it off.

IMO patterns of his behavior will be very important to proving the State’s case. He has 12 occurrences of visiting the King Road residence area in such a very short time after moving there and then nothing after. (Defense could say he was scared to go after the murders) However, when all the little things starts to add up, it’s hard to explain everything away.

Their investigation will probably show that he doesn’t usually turn his phone off and only did so during and immediately after the murders (disposing of evidence).

 

[kittythehare]

Lots of interesting thoughts there - yes, hydrogen peroxide would be better than bleach (although neither is certain to completely eliminate DNA, at least hydrogen peroxide wouldn't make the cleaning process as obvious (especially if diluted).

Interesting point about him planning not to stick around. I think he's nervous around blood and not just because of DNA.

Task/goal-oriented is a good way of describing his motives so far. Wanted to compete (with other students, his professors - and with serial killers/criminals).

I too would love to know what he actually studied. DeSales doesn't have a strong program in genetics, IMO, nor even a basic course in forensic biology/anthropology techniques (that I can find).

I bet he read tons of non-academic true crime (like memoirs of serial killers). IMO. Would love to know how much time he spent annotating his textbooks and cross-referencing the current state of forensics as described in the current literature. Probably had intrusive thoughts about performing a crime, a lot.

Some said Mr. Kohberger spent time studying the exact kind of techniques that the police used in recent weeks to identify him, and had a deep interest in criminal psychology and crime scenes.

Benjamin T. Roberts, a fellow graduate student at Washington State, said Mr. Kohberger had been interested in areas like psychology and Rational Choice Theory, which suggests that offenders may often try to assess the potential costs and benefits of committing a crime.

“He took the field of study very seriously,” Mr. Roberts said.

A Knife Sheath, Phone Pings and Trash: The Hunt for a Killer in Idaho (Published 2023)

On the night four college students were killed, a roommate saw a man clad in black walk through the home. It took a cross-country investigation to find a suspect.

www.nytimes.com

Anything lighting up for you from that?
I have a feeling he did it as an academic exercise but I don't know what he was trying to prove that is new, from the few scraps of info we have?

 

[Jbaileetaxes]

He may very well have left a digital trail we'll find out. Or he could have used a computer at school or the library using someone else's account.

Not blaming any of the girls at all. I’m just saying with all of the illogical parts, likely police holding back a lot of details for reasons only they know.

Wont

Agree. I feel *so* bad for her getting criticized by people who have never been in her situation so have no idea how they would actually react.

IMO, there were some noises and voices over a very short period of time in a house shared with quite a few people (and where guests were perhaps not uncommon after parties/drinking). Those noises and voices (none of which were blood curdling screams) stopped after just a few minutes. She may have been tipsy/groggy, and then when all was quiet, just thought (or convinced herself) that everything must be fine now and went back to sleep. Or maybe she did text one of the other roommates, and when they didn’t respond, she assumed they had just gone back to sleep. That wouldn’t be unreasonable to me - not everyone would immediately jump to thinking “omg my roommates must have just been violently murdered by an intruder.” MOO, obviously.

again I’m not putting any girl down. I just believe there’s more to it. I think people are saying don’t be judgey out of empathy which is understandable. <modsnip>

Logic tells me girl saw more.

Think about it.

Cases take a long time and cops in a couple of months with nothing at all except some videos of car in a town full of college students driving around. They zoomed in on him really quick and I’m just saying I think more will come out

 

[10ofRods]

Regarding the 'purchased unknown items' phrase; it's 2023, not 1923, lol. When I read/heard that part I had to slightly giggle with the thought of 'yeeeah, that's something they don't want to or need to elaborate on, just yet' in the back of my mind. I say that because every. single. receipt. I've printed out for a customer or had printed out for me as the shopper has an invoice number, as well as, the items listed on receipt are also itemized with item numbers. Those items were brought to the store under tracking numbers and invoice numbers, etc. The only way items would be truly unknown would be if BK ran out the door without paying (...and I've seen cashiers, managers, and LP use their detective skills and deductive reasoning skills to find the item numbers needed for inventory, in quite a few of those instances...).

My point is those items aren't unknown. An elaboration on them simply wasn't needed at that time for that document. If it's relevant to case it'll be brought up in court.

All just my experience ... and opinion.

I agree - I just think they hadn't gotten a clear statement from Albertson's yet. If they've got him on camera in the store and at check-out, they should be able to cross-reference that with their receipt database for sure.

Although, this is an Albertson's in an out-of-the-way mountain town. I think it was in Clarkston, IIRC, population 7000. Still, one would think that all Albertson's would comply with the inventory system of the chain.

I totally agree that this may come up again at court - perhaps as early as the prelim. Maybe irrelevant if all he bought was snacks (!)

 

[Gemmie]

I wondered if it was his father's also. I might have misread the affidavit but I read ito be that the blood residue on the sheath was his father's and they tied the alleged murderer through the geneology. But I admit I read the affidavit pretty quickly.

DNA of his father was found in the trash they took. DNA on the sheath was BK's. At least that's how I read this:

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - 122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf

pdfhost.io

 

[Aquarian]

I've read almost every post on these threads and have one question and one comment.

Was there anyone living in the first floor bedroom? Reports are of surviving roommates (plural). I have not seen anyone other than D mentioned.

Also, I am struck by how exposed M was due to the sliding glass doors. In the exterior shots, I see only flimsy drapes, or maybe none at all. It's hard to tell, but I expect that anyone in that room with the lights on in the evening was visible from the outside. Maybe it's because I'm a visual/observant type and always looking around when I'm on the sidewalk or in a car, but as a young person I took note of the fact that I was able to see into homes pretty easily at night. As I got older and more aware, I was always careful to pull shades down in the evening. I still yell at my husband about this. He says, "If they want to look at me, let 'em. Big thrill." Well, then of course we have the talk about the difference between how men live, and how women must live. It was eye-opening to him. The natural innocence of young people makes me sad when something like this happens. Bottom line is, situational awareness won't help you when someone is this evil.

The other roommate lived on the first floor, bottom left as you face the house.

 

[Peppery]

I’m not too worried about finding blood evidence/DNA in his car. I’ve had a child throw up in my car and got it professionally cleaned TWICE, the second time they took the actual seat out, and I could still smell it sometimes. LE doesn’t need a lot of blood and there are so many little nooks and crannies that are practically impossible to reach without dismantling the car. They’ll find plenty, imo.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611475942089822208

 

[Seattle1]

dbm

 

[ray9898]

Oh thanks! That actually makes the most sense that the blood spot on the sheath was "new" rather than old and his father's.

It may not even be blood, it could be touch DNA left by manipulating the retention snap.

 

[10ofRods]

Some said Mr. Kohberger spent time studying the exact kind of techniques that the police used in recent weeks to identify him, and had a deep interest in criminal psychology and crime scenes.

Benjamin T. Roberts, a fellow graduate student at Washington State, said Mr. Kohberger had been interested in areas like psychology and Rational Choice Theory, which suggests that offenders may often try to assess the potential costs and benefits of committing a crime.

“He took the field of study very seriously,” Mr. Roberts said.

A Knife Sheath, Phone Pings and Trash: The Hunt for a Killer in Idaho (Published 2023)

On the night four college students were killed, a roommate saw a man clad in black walk through the home. It took a cross-country investigation to find a suspect.

www.nytimes.com

Anything lighting up for you from that?
I have a feeling he did it as an academic exercise but I don't know what he was trying to prove that is new, from the few scraps of info we have?

Oh my.

Rational Choice Theory. I am guessing that, as with most of us, he was most interested in the theories that fit his own worldview.

It's actually a neglected area of criminal conduct, in many ways. Many models of criminality focus on upbringing or genes or recent trauma or anxiety or whatnot. This theory says that criminals are perfectly capable of being rational actors and may make most of their decisions according to logic and reason (based on a criminal premise of course).

We see this theory put forward in some military trials, in which soldiers are accused of war crimes, but at the time, they believed they were making a rational choice supported by their training.

"I am not crazy, I am just a really smart criminal."

Oof.

 

[schooling]

They didn't initially suspect him because of the DNA - it was because of the car and the cell phone data. After they'd identified him that way, they ran the DNA and there was a match. It would definitely be one hell of a coincidence if the guy they IDd though the car/cell data just happened to be the guy who matched the DNA on the sheath of the knife that was the murder weapon found at the crime scene.

And this is always what happens with this kind of legal analysis.

Of course the case looks weak when you consider each piece of evidence in a silo. But reality is...NO ONE DOES THAT.

The evidence will compound when presented one after the other as part of a narrative. And at some point the coincidence probability is going to approach Powerball Winning Ticket territory.

 

[Cedars]

Hydrogen Peroxide for bloodstains..
This is eerily like Brendt Christensen after he dismembered Ying ying Zhang, he went out and bought tons of bleach , which will not 'disappear' blood..
I'm getting so many flashbacks to that case, he was caught..

I'd really like to get my mitts on bK's study material, fave books, recent books, etc..
mostly from his Masters programme but recent reading might have served as accelerant?

At this stage I feel I'm being over generous in assuming transference has occurred.
That was not the case with Christensen.

But there are similarities.

BK did not hang around to take pleasure in his handiwork, feels like he was more task orientated..just do it and go..
Christensen had the weekend with YY's body.

I agree there are similarities. Christensen took the much bigger risk of actually abducting someone. According to accounts of counsellors he'd visisited prior to the murder, he was both suicidal and homicidal. His wife had left him, he had no future prospects because he was flunking his PhD, he was on medication for psychiatric problems, he bragged to his girlfiend about killing Ying ying. Mental Health Counselors Testify About Treatment For Brendt Christensen | Illinois Public Media

Seems to me, he didn't care if he got caught, as long as he became infamous.

It seems BK had more concern for his own future and intended to get away with this.

 

[Ccging]

He likely thought that D the roommate heard both violent enounters and as a result called the police. Hence him speeding out of there. I doubt that he slept that night. Either listening to a police scanner if he had one or incessantly refreshing his web browser.

After waiting for so long he probably went to see what the hell was going on.

But then that would mean he saw DM and left her alive.

 

[10ofRods]

It may not even be blood, it could be touch DNA left by manipulating the retention snap.

It is almost certainly touch DNA, no mention of blood on the sheath in the affidavit.

It's not his father's DNA, either. It's his. Father's DNA is collected in PA for comparison (genetic genealogy).

 

[EJB123456]

I hate to say this but it seemed at least thoughtful to me. He's aware he probably brought some forensic material out with him, and is trying to get rid of it. He didn't want to be caught with it in their trash, or taking it very far, so he hid it in the neighbors trash. I guess he didn't know he had an audience.

Listen, I'm not gonna lie to you, that week I wanted to throw stuff in my neighbor's garbage cans *so badly* because we were overflowing from all of the Christmas festivities and unwrapping presents.

 

[rgreene]

BK probably thought nobody would ever suspect a "brilliant" student in a Ph.D. program as a suspect. But fortunately, it comes down to evidence and not what anyone thinks! I find this interesting since he was interested in the feelings and emotions of crimes.

 

[OverTheRhine]

You'd think a legal expert would know they're not going to put their entire case in a PCA and that they are still building the case and prosecution. You'd think they'd also include other damning evidence like the obvious stalking and descriptions. But hey, sure, someone who looks like him got his DNA on a sheath and wiped it all clean except for one small spot for detectives to trace. They were also able to get this patsy to drive around 12 times stalking the victims. My lord.

 

[10ofRods]

The affidavit says single source DNA on the sheath button snap. There would be another profile there if it was transfer DNA. JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne.pdf

Why would that be? It's most likely his transfer DNA (from his fingers as he unbuttoned the sheath, not sure how else he gets the sheath open).

Single source DNA means all the DNA in the sample is from one person (source). Could be any kind of DNA.

 

[rgreene]

Some said Mr. Kohberger spent time studying the exact kind of techniques that the police used in recent weeks to identify him, and had a deep interest in criminal psychology and crime scenes.

Benjamin T. Roberts, a fellow graduate student at Washington State, said Mr. Kohberger had been interested in areas like psychology and Rational Choice Theory, which suggests that offenders may often try to assess the potential costs and benefits of committing a crime.

“He took the field of study very seriously,” Mr. Roberts said.

A Knife Sheath, Phone Pings and Trash: The Hunt for a Killer in Idaho (Published 2023)

On the night four college students were killed, a roommate saw a man clad in black walk through the home. It took a cross-country investigation to find a suspect.

www.nytimes.com

Anything lighting up for you from that?
I have a feeling he did it as an academic exercise but I don't know what he was trying to prove that is new, from the few scraps of info we have?

It made me chuckle to think of most criminals doing a "cost-benefit" analysis.