ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 59

[RANCH]

Yeah, the affidavit is full of words that mean different things to different people. Bushy (on the Martin Scorsese eyebrow scale, this dude doesn't even register), thud, whimper... all can mean something different in many circumstances.

Good post. It will up to the jury if this goes to trial. They will have to determine if the witness testimony fits with the prosecutions case. Will the jury feel that the eyewitness testimony of the murderer is consistent with the defendant?

The defense will try to deflect any similarities and emphasize any deference's. JMO.

 

[TL4S]

Questions maybe someone can find answers to:
* On what date did BK move to Pullman? (or when can new students there usually move in to student housing of that type?)
* What could have triggered him to act that night?
* How in the name of all holy did he know that his target(s) were home prior to departing from Pullman?
* What could he have been doing all that time after departing and before the murders (ca 1h 15 min inc driving(s))?

Note: He would probably have not recognized KG-s new car, as she had just bought it and had not posted online about it yet (and there is no known information that he followed her in that car at any point after she bought the car). But he would have known ECs car I think given the 12+ previous stalkings. Maybe EC parked at XK's place even if he was staying overat the frat, but that gave me a pause. I don't think it could have been a real surprise to him that EC was there.

Short Timeline (per Affidavit and Maps):
Ca 1.30-1.50 MM & KG were on the food truck video.
2.00 victims were all home.
- a unknown gap -
2.44 BK was seen between his housing and highway 270 (Pullman-Moscow) and at 2.53 on hw 270.
The drive from 1630 NE Valley Rd, Pullman to King Rd, Moscow takes ca 20-25 minutes via hw 270.
2.47 BK turns off his phone
- a gap of ca 40 - 20-25 = 15-20 minutes -
3.29 BK first arrives to the neighbourhood. Second arrival unknown atm.
- a gap of ca 30 minutes -
4.04 BK arrives for the third time. Has parking problems.
4.20 BK leaves the neighbourhood at high speed
The drive back via hw 95 and Uniontown takes ca 40-60 minutes.
4.48 BK turns on his phone again on hw 95 near Blaine, ID
5.25 BK back in Pullman (might be with a very tiny gap)
- a gap of ca 3h 30 min -
ca 9 - 9.30 BK does a quick detour back to King Rd, Moscow
- a gap of 3 hours -
12.36 BK at 810 Port Dr, Clarkston, WA (40-50 minute drive from Pullman)
12.46 BK goes shopping at Albertson's in Clarkston
13.03 BK leaves the shop
- a gap of ca 4h 30 min -
17.32 BK near Johnson, ID per affiidavit (ca 1h 30 min drive, but some thought may be typo for Johnson, WA; 35m drive)
17.36 BK turns off phone
- a gap of almost 3h -
20.30 BK turns phone back on

Good timeline. You are missing two significant camera capture time stamps, though. 3:26 westbound on 700 block of Indian Hills Dr. and 3:28 westbound on Styner Ave and Idaho State 95. If you look on Google maps, you'll see that those roads are mostly residential and east of King Rd. He did not go straight to King Rd when he got to Moscow. He went somewhere east and came back on residential roads west. Then, he seemed to circle King Rd for about a half hour before parking. We know during this time, at the very least, that X ordered DD and it was delivered around 4 pm, so my guess is lights were on and he didn't want to enter until under cover of darkness.

My personal theory is he drove east through Moscow where he knew cameras might capture his car appearing to look like it was leaving east out of Moscow well before the murders (at least in case LE did catch a whiff of his trail). It was setting up an alibi for himself, just in case. Then, when he felt like he passed going east past the last camera in town, he had planned a route back west where he figured there'd be no cameras. Except there were at least two, one likely a business and I think the other camera must have been residential. I'm curious to see if LE has footage of him driving that same route on earlier dates, probably looking for cameras.

He had his phone off this entire time thinking there would be no proof of his entire westbound travels through Moscow. JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

The gag order is here.

Says only counsel (DA, PD) and LE in the above-entitled case (Idaho v Kohberger). So unless LE is directly involved in the investigation, I think they can talk all they want (but will have no direct evidence of the case, of course, so it'll be based on general notions not specific to this case). That appears to be still happening, but no one wants to have their name on it.

Like the "staff" at Mad Greek. I too prefer articles sourced with actual names, although I understand the difficulties. At least provide the number of "staff" talked to and how long they'd worked, etc.

 

[Sjöberg]

Good timeline. You are missing two significant camera capture time stamps, though. 3:26 westbound on 700 block of Indian Hills Dr. and 3:28 westbound on Styner Ave and Idaho State 95. If you look on Google maps, you'll see that those roads are mostly residential and east of King Rd. He did not go straight to King Rd when he got to Moscow. He went somewhere east and came back on residential roads west. Then, he seemed to circle King Rd for about a half hour before parking. We know during this time, at the very least, that X ordered DD and it was delivered around 4 pm, so my guess is lights were on and he didn't want to enter until under cover of darkness.

Thank you, I'll add that!

 

[NuttMegg]

Is there some reason a hack saw with special blade couldn't have been used to cut the knife in small pieces? Google says it's carbon steel. I asked this yesterday but I don't think anyone answered me. I've used a hacksaw to cut pretty hefty locks open, it takes awhile but he had time and adrenaline.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
I have been monitoring everyone conversations on here the last few day and others keep talking about BK not having a girlfriend and be good around women but we do keep hearing his friends talking about BK having a past drug problem, so that might be the reason he was in the area late at night in the last few months, these murders might be linked to that just my opinion, he could have messed up that night

 

[John Book]

Police should check the west side of quarry pond on Quarry Lane about 3 miles south of Moscow on west side of Hwy 95 for suspects clothing and weapon.
If he left murder scene at 4:20, then turned cell phone back on at 4:48 near Blaine (6 miles south) that would mean there is about 20 minutes unaccounted for.
Google Earth shows an easy exit and private area to get rid of evidence. If it’s really an old quarry it is likely deep with steep sides.
Allowing a few minutes to feel safe to turn his phone back on makes this a prime spot to look for the missing evidence.

Doubt there's any Moscow cops on here, Keith.

Send that bad boy to the tip page...

 

[SRWCF]

So according to the article, she identified him based on his eyebrows, height and build? Eyewitness identification is notoriously unreliable— is anyone else surprised they would use her description to help identify him? I guess it worked out since the DNA matched, but I can’t see them using this in court…

The affidavit gave just enough information to secure an arrest. Just because more information wasn't released to the public, doesn't mean there isn't any.

For example, since we know from the affidavit that LE had their sights on BCK early on, I think it's very likely they had DM pick the suspect out of a line up of photos.

With the DNA match plus the cell phone pings, they didn't really need to include the info of DM being an eyewitness in the affidavit to secure an arrest.

I hope LE included that in order to give BCK an "Oh crap!" moment.

 

[Ozoner]

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...erger-arrested-moscow-54.655958/post-18025965

It's hilarious how the media has portrayed him as a "genius," which is a more clickable story than the reality of this guy. He went to a community college out of high school (Northhampton Community College in PA -- not heard of that, me neither) and then Desales University (?) and finally Washington State. Until this case, I hadn't definitely heard of any of these. Don't think I'm impugning the quality of the instruction at these institutions. There are great teachers in many easy to get into schools, and bad teachers in elite ones, but the truth is, these are places average Joes and Janes go.

The U. of Pennsylvania and the U. of Maryland have top notch criminology programs. Why wasn't he there if he was very talented?

Snipped.

Quite honestly, these comments don't stand up well to careful examination, in my opinion. When I was a senior in high school, I was approached by many elite schools. However, I did not apply to any of them. Instead, I went where I could afford to go, which was to a public in-state university that offered me a generous scholarship package. Attending an elite school would have meant taking out student loans.

I went to high school with a number of people who were weaker students than I was but who were able to attend "elite" universities because they had more affluent parents who were able to pay their tuition at those schools.

From what I have seen, attending a lesser-known school generally has far more to do with the income level of one's parents than with intelligence or academic ability. Attempting to determine someone's intelligence based on what colleges he or she has attended is ill considered, in my opinion.

That isn't to say that I think BCK is particularly intelligent. On the contrary, I haven't seen any evidence that he is, and he made numerous sophomoric mistakes in committing this crime. However, his choice of schools proves nothing one way or the other about his intelligence.

 

[eloquence]

Police should check the west side of quarry pond on Quarry Lane about 3 miles south of Moscow on west side of Hwy 95 for suspects clothing and weapon.
If he left murder scene at 4:20, then turned cell phone back on at 4:48 near Blaine (6 miles south) that would mean there is about 20 minutes unaccounted for.
Google Earth shows an easy exit and private area to get rid of evidence. If it’s really an old quarry it is likely deep with steep sides.
Allowing a few minutes to feel safe to turn his phone back on makes this a prime spot to look for the missing evidence.

You should call this in

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

Police should check the west side of quarry pond on Quarry Lane about 3 miles south of Moscow on west side of Hwy 95 for suspects clothing and weapon.
If he left murder scene at 4:20, then turned cell phone back on at 4:48 near Blaine (6 miles south) that would mean there is about 20 minutes unaccounted for.
Google Earth shows an easy exit and private area to get rid of evidence. If it’s really an old quarry it is likely deep with steep sides.
Allowing a few minutes to feel safe to turn his phone back on makes this a prime spot to look for the missing evidence.

Very helpful, insightful and persuasive thoughts as to where he was during those unaccounted 20 minutes and what he might have been doing.

 

[Rumination1]

Questions maybe someone can find answers to:
* On what date did BK move to Pullman? (or when can new students there usually move in to student housing of that type?)
* What could have triggered him to act that night?
* How in the name of all holy did he know that his target(s) were home prior to departing from Pullman?
* What could he have been doing all that time after departing and before the murders (ca 1h 15 min inc driving(s))?

Note: He would probably have not recognized KG-s new car, as she had just bought it and had not posted online about it yet (and there is no known information that he followed her in that car at any point after she bought the car). But he would have known ECs car I think given the 12+ previous stalkings. Maybe EC parked at XK's place even if he was staying over at the frat, but that gave me a pause. I don't think it could have been a real surprise to him that EC was there.

Short Timeline (per Affidavit and Maps):
Ca 1.30-1.50 MM & KG were on the food truck video.
2.00 victims were all home.
- a unknown gap -
2.44 BK was seen between his housing and highway 270 (Pullman-Moscow) and at 2.53 on hw 270.
(The drive from 1630 NE Valley Rd, Pullman to King Rd, Moscow takes ca 20-25 minutes via hw 270)
2.47 BK turns off his phone
- a gap of ca 40 - 20-25 = 15-20 minutes -
3:26 BK westbound on 700 Indian Hills Dr., 3:28 BK westbound on Styner Ave and Idaho State 95 - east of King Road
3.29 BK first arrives to the neighbourhood. Second arrival unknown atm.
- a gap of ca 30 minutes -
4.04 BK arrives for the third time. Has parking problems.
4.20 BK leaves the neighbourhood at high speed
(The drive back via hw 95 and Uniontown takes ca 40-60 minutes.)
4.48 BK turns on his phone again on hw 95 near Blaine, ID (Edit: 7-15 minutes drive from King Road)
5.25 BK back in Pullman (might be with a very tiny gap)
- a gap of ca 3h 30 min -
9.00 - 9.30 BK does a quick detour back to King Rd, Moscow, time approximate
- a gap of 3 hours (3h - 40-50m = 2h 10-20m) -
12.36 BK at 810 Port Dr, Clarkston, WA (40-50 minute drive from Pullman)
12.46 BK goes shopping at Albertson's in Clarkston
13.03 BK leaves the shop
- a gap of ca 4h 30 min -
17.32 BK near Johnson, ID per affiidavit (ca 1h 30 min drive, but some thought may be typo for Johnson, WA; 35m drive)
17.36 BK turns off phone
- a gap of almost 3h -
20.30 BK turns phone back on

I think that looks correct but I have a question
After 9 am was his phone on or off or periodically off
To me that looks suss turning one’s phone off for a few hours in the day . Rarely do people do that.
I wonder if anyone else’s phone was in the vicinity and meeting him and noticed anything odd because I fit understand his need to drive to three random places on a Sunday if he tries to give an excuse
Also , the LE is now not just keeping things close to their chest , they are gagged from releasing info and I have NO doubt that they are gathering lots . Does anyone know how many officers on the case now ? Tia

 

[SRWCF]

CC
I have been monitoring everyone conversations on here the last few day and others keep talking about BK not having a girlfriend and be good around women but we do keep hearing his friends talking about BK having a past drug problem, so that might be the reason he was in the area late at night in the last few months, these murders might be linked to that just my opinion, he could have messed up that night

I'm going to venture a guess that he's been clean from heroin for some time. All the close up photos of him during the "perp walks" really show that the dude has flawless skin! If he was still a heavy user, I really think it would show in his face.

He's still young-ish, but no longer a teen when drug and alcohol use hasn't yet effected one's appearance.

JMO

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

You should call this in

Agree. Brilliant possibility that would be important for LE to further investigate.

 

[cottonweaver]

regarding the dumping of incriminating evidence, just noticed this interest in hiking


'In a handful of conversations outside of the classroom with Kohberger, Roberts said that the two talked a little about music and sports, and that Kohberger at one point mentioned he liked to hike.'

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270876677.html#storylink=cpy


PCA - By 12.36pm on 13th Nov his phone is in Clarkston, WA, then by 5.36pm he's in Johnston Idaho and his phone is ' off-grid' for 3 more hours.

Clarkston to Orofino Joint School District 171

www.google.com

 

[Friday Fan]

I never even saw his eyebrows until I read the PCA and I had spent a long time looking at his face...

Yeah...
I think his brows were all DM could see.
Police will often ask about facial characteristics. What color were the eyes? What color were the brows? Were the brows thick or thin? OK...they were thick...

What I notice is how is eyes are set...His eyes are deep set and he has a short distance between the eyes and brows. This makes his eyes look piercing.

 

[Cool Cats]

CC
I have been monitoring everyone conversations on here the last few day and others keep talking about BK not having a girlfriend and be good around women but we do keep hearing his friends talking about BK having a past drug problem, so that might be the reason he was in the area late at night in the last few months, these murders might be linked to that just my opinion, he could have messed up that night

Nice to hear from you Johnny! Please keep posting in the Rhoden thread too!

I never thought about him going out late at night to buy illegal drugs, but I am sure this wasn't any type of drug deal gone bad or BK "messing up" that night.

His car was spotted 12 times in the vicinity of the home and plus he went back between 9:00am and 9:30 am the morning of the murders. I think he may have gone back more than once that morning, need to look it up.

Then on top of this he had his deadly knife with him, was dressed in black clothing, was wearing a mask covering his mouth and nose, and killed 4 people.

It looks like he planned this ahead. Also, I remember reading - wish I had book marked it - that 2 of the girls had a distant type of social media connection to him. Like he knew them on SM but they probably weren't aware of him. Wish I could find this again.

But it is not beyond reason that he was "high" on something that night but I won't speculate further on this because there is no evidence of this plus I don't want to start "rumors" of drug use that isn't documented.

His past drug use is documented to a degree from several witnesses and is mentioned in MSM. But nothing about current drug use.

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

regarding the dumping of incriminating evidence, just noticed this interest in hiking


'In a handful of conversations outside of the classroom with Kohberger, Roberts said that the two talked a little about music and sports, and that Kohberger at one point mentioned he liked to hike.'

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270876677.html#storylink=cpy


PCA - By 12.36pm on 13th Nov his phone is in Clarkston, WA, then by 5.36pm he's in Johnston Idaho and his phone is ' off-grid' for 3 more hours.

Clarkston to Orofino Joint School District 171

www.google.com

Since his phone was "off-grid" on King Street at the time of the murders, it seems likely that he would have made sure his phone was "off-grid" if and when he was disposing of the knife, bloody clothes and/or bloody shoes.

 

[Nova]

I have been thinking about where X was. Her and E had to be inside her bedroom with the door closed. When DM woke up I am assuming like everyone else she made a trip to the bathroom. The bathroom door was right beside the door to X's bedroom. She would have had to step over X to get in the bathroom if X was in the hallway. No way she did not notice X on the floor and all the blood if X was in the hallway or if the door to X's bedroom was open.

...

I too am puzzled why DM did not call 911 when she saw BK. But then it was a party house with people coming and going at all hours.

I also am puzzled why she called friends the next day after she awakened instead of calling 911....

(Emphasis added; parts of quote deleted for focus.)

Re first paragraph above, I so agree. Of course, it's possible DM was shocked to the point of being catatonic. (And as others have pointed out, it's also possible she locked herself in her room, but her phone was somewhere else.) But I think your scenario is more likely: she simply didn't see the bodies of her friend and that friend's guest.

Re bolded paragraph, I've been thinking that 1122 King Road was sort of a "mini-dorm": each bedroom seems to have had its own lock; even floor was akin to a dorm "suite", with two bedrooms and a bath; I seriously doubt each resident notified the others whenever she had a guest (for any reason: I am NOT suggesting any of the victims was promiscuous). Bottom line: what dorm resident calls 911 every time she encounters a stranger in a hallway? (No one.) That the stranger was half-masked would have been a red flag at one time, but not since the Covid19 epidemic.

I don't know if DM called friends before dialing 911. <modsnip>

 

[beaaspears]

I'm not from the US nor a lawyer so I don't actually know FACTS but is the affidavit release just as a justification for what they are about to do (i.e charge and incarcerate BK)? Do they need to actually dispose ALL the facts and evidence they have at this document or they can only describe a reasonable mean to why they found that person should be charged?