ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 60

[jepop]

I know we all have mixed feelings about the Daily Mail.

Today their headline article was about DM, one of the surviving roommates. They have stalked her to her parent's home and taken clandestine photos of her as she left the home to run to Starbucks.

For me, this crosses a journalistic line. She is a victim too. She has to be dealing with so much in the aftermath of the murders. IMO, she doesn't need the DM stalking her too.

I am deliberately not linking the article here.

Rant over.

JMO

I for one, have no mixed feelings about the Daily Maily. Mine are unambiguously negative!

 

[ArmChairDet]

Very helpful thoughts, Emerald15. He absolutely lacked the necessary critical thinking skills.

He made so many blunders that I have periodically wondered if he unconsciously wanted to get caught.

But, I think it's more as you said, he simply lacked the necessary critical thinking skills to carefully plan for many basic things related to how he conducted this crime (phone, car etc)

IMO I don't see anyway he would have wanted to be caught. I don't think he will do well in prison, and would understand that.

 

[isabella88]

i'm pursuing the notion that the knife sheath he left behind may have been symbolic rather than accidental, like a signature.
To that end I'm going down a lot of cul-de-sacs.

Ah, I see. To your point, if it was meant to be a signature, he may have killed before or more likely planned to kill again?

 

[kittythehare]

Ah, I see. To your point, if it was meant to be a signature, he may have killed before or more likely planned to kill again?

That or the killing symbolised revenge for something, I can't imagine what so I'm cross referencing with the date November13.. if that goes anywhere, hasn't for me, the number 4 might also be significant.. probably bats but i'm driven like a madwoman.
Any of it ring true to you?

 

[Walela]

He lacked critical thinking skills. Did not anticipate many homes would have cameras. Did not thoroughly think through the results of bringing phone and turning it on and off continuously. Did not think thoroughly about security cameras on WS campus, especially parking lot.

What we perceive as a lack of critical thinking skills may be a direct result of his underestimation of the small town MPD's ability to investigate and garner the investigative support of the ISP and FBI in such a timely fashion. His interaction with the officer that gave him the seat belt ticket may have unduly caused him to believe the entire police force was not up to his intelligence level.
jmo

 

[kellala]

Very helpful thoughts, Emerald15. He absolutely lacked the necessary critical thinking skills.

He made so many blunders that I have periodically wondered if he unconsciously wanted to get caught.

But, I think it's more as you said, he simply lacked the necessary critical thinking skills to carefully plan for many basic things related to how he conducted this crime (phone, car etc

Good point, and the changing plates is suspicious. I wonder, since he seemingly didn't have access to another vehicle, and he had an interest in digital technology, he surely considered the risk of his car being caught on camera, including the license plate. His choices were either not get caught on camera, or the alibi route, if he thought about it at all. I think what got him into a tizzy was leaving behind that sheath. He knew he'd made a mistake that if tied back to him, all his planning was for not. Sucker.

In any case, I think the PCA listed only the camera footage necessary to put him in the area and at the residence around the time of the murders, plus the time he left and came back to Pullman. They could have other footage we don't know about, and I'm sure it tells a more vivid story of his movements that night. If only LE knew how much is us map people would appreciate a point-by-point playback of that stupid Elantra.

This is what people say “you have to use a thousand lies to make up your first lie”. For him, he has to explain why he changed his plate number to WS then driving 2000 miles back to PA if he intends to use the car next semester. You either do not change the plate number if you intend to leave it home, or you changed the number and keep it in WS. Another bad decision.

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

For someone immersed in criminal justice study he made a lot of out of character blunders.

Agree. With his strong interest in criminal justice and with the time he took to plan this crime, his so-called planning was lacking. And, as Wishbone said, he made a lot of out-of-character blunders.

Emerald15's thought that he lacked critical thinking skills rings true to me and sums up how he could have made so many serious mistakes.

 

[flowershop]

IMO, the defense is going to have to come up with several explanations for evidence that could explain reasonable doubt. But a list of odd denials (knife stolen, car stolen on several occasions, phone stolen, my DNA smeared on sheath, etc.) will not cut the mustard.

If they find ANY MORE evidence (odd searches on his computer (google earth or maps of the 1122 address, DNA in the car somewhere, etc.) they have no chance of providing reasonable doubt to a semi-intelligent jury.

Once discovery is shown, the defense will probably recommend a guilty (or insanity) plea.

However, BK may be so delusional he wants the sensation of a real trial.

100 percent agree. I just wanted to mention that Idaho does not allow for the insanity plea.

Three Mountain West States Don't Have A Traditional Insanity Defense. That Could Change Soon.

Last year, on a warm Saturday evening in Boise, Idaho, Timmy Earl Kinner Jr. walked into a birthday party. In a random attack, he stabbed nine people,…

www.boisestatepublicradio.org

 

[NoseyRecluse]

As far as the lighting issue goes, I often get up on the middle of the night and wander around the house without turning on lights. There is typically enough ambient light from things like street lights, digital oven clock, my cell phone, etc... I also remember seeing twinkle lights and neon signs around the house and not sure some of those might not have been left on as well.

With respect, I know we are all on pins and needles looking for any info we can, but this seems to be such an invasion of privacy. The poor man is just trying to clean up the mess from his house on the worst night of his life and camera people are hiding in the bushes taking pictures. He probably can't afford to even hire someone to do it, or can't find someone willing to come out to that address. I know I am a ninny, but I often have sympathy for the innocent families of killers as well, unless they are somehow shown to be involved.

(bbm)
This world needs more people like you.

 

[debbiediablo]

I agree. I believe whoever committed the murders is either tricky and has a plan to throw LE a curveball. Or totally forgot the sheath was left behind because of the fact they lack basic reasoning & logic.

This whole case could be orchestrated as a point to “win “at something. As a lot of history about the suspect says he has felt like a failure because he didn’t quite mesh well with those of logical thinking.

IMO BCK forgot the sheath because he didn't plan on three residents being awake (this includes Kaylee who likely awakened) nor did he plan on a dog raising absolute hell. It's entirely possible to be highly intelligent, capably planful and then fall prey to stress-induced sloppy execution. I agree about "winning" and believe that he tried through normal means (Army Ranger, police officer) to achieve what he wanted. If he has a grudge(s) then one of them is about all the agencies that turned him away, and his crime was to prove that they were mistaken and he was the best. Which leads right into my theory that his research questionnaire would've ultimately been answered by the Idaho killer (plus some other fake crimes if he needed greater n) to perhaps become the topic of his dissertation. Wow! Bryan Kohberger would have a reputation before his PhD became reality. Sort of like Katherine Ramsland and Dennis Rader, but faster. MOO

 

[SuziQ]

My thoughts on the sheath being left... I don't think he understood the mechanics of it. Instead of looping it through the belt then the belt loops on his pants, he probably skipped the belt and just used the snap around a belt loop, not realizing it will fall off when opened. to use the knife.

If he was wearing a belt, that is. Imo.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Purely IMO, but he stalked the house itself and probably noticed it did not have cameras, he did not think residences close by would or did not even think about it. I honestly think this was planned but sloppily so. He may have been book smart but I think possibly lacked in common sense.

The problem here is the word "planned." When normal people say that, we imagine a logical, coherent, reasonable mind setting a goal and then planning steps, imagining obstacles, and arriving at a "plan." The sort of people who do mass murder do not think the way we think. I've referenced Cullen's book on Columbine here before; he describes in detail the "plans" one of the killers made, intending to slaughter 500+ people by setting off bombs in the school. It's a lucky thing for many that the bombs were duds and he/they failed. It wasn't for lack of "planning." It's that these people are not like us. They are wired differently mentally and emotionally. Their "motives" and "plans" do not resemble what we call motives and plans. I mean, if someone STARTS with the thought, "I'm going to break into a house and kill all the college kids living there," what plan, exactly, is going to make sense when the objective is monstrous, malignant, and inhuman. We realize that what he intended to do was horrific and nothing we would ever consider but we miss that his other decision-making processes are similarly distorted. Not all of them get caught, but not all of them decide to slaughter 4 people in one house either, in the era of DNA, forensic genealogy and mass surveillance.

 

[Sakura2Sophia4Lucia]

What we perceive as a lack of critical thinking skills may be a direct result of his underestimation of the small town MPD's ability to investigate and garner the investigative support of the ISP and FBI in such a timely fashion. His interaction with the officer that gave him the seat belt ticket may have unduly caused him to believe the entire police force was not up to his intelligence level.
jmo

And, I agree, he may have seriously over-estimated his own abilities, intellect and crime knowledge and very much under-estimated the small town MPD's ability to investigate and solve this crime. IMHO, he seemed to have an elevated view of his intellect and crime smarts, and thought he knew far more than others, including the MPD. If true, that was another serious miscalculation on his part.

 

[debbiediablo]

(bbm)
This world needs more people like you.

I will never not cringe or be dismayed when a journalist asks someone a question like "how does it feel now that your only son is an accused mass murderer?" or "tell me what it was like to get the phone call that one of your triplet children has been murdered?"

 

[kellala]

He may read too many old fashioned killer stories and so focused on the killing part. He excelled in that part but forgot everything else! At least he could be remembered for the first killing record. (I am thinking what he might be thinking). He looked absolutely no remorse or felt defeated in any way in the court room.

 

[TL4S]

There seems to be time unaccounted for both before and after... Doodling around on my own map, it appears he came from the east with no obvious reason for doing so.View attachment 394193

Then a hypothetical path home that matches up with the times...
View attachment 394194

Is there some point of interest over here?
View attachment 394195

@SharonNeedles, it's great to have your input here! Your maps show exactly the routes I've been trying to explain without being able to map it on my worthless chromebook, so thank you! Yes, your circled area is what grabbed my attention right after reading the PCA. That unaccounted for time could be just about anything. Some have mentioned a drug buy, driving around gathering the nerve to go ahead, and then me with my unlikely explanation of the alibi and camera stuff. What we also don't know is what road he actually came into Moscow on. LE said he was seen driving on a road that directly meets up with 270, but they don't say if that's what he actually took. 270/Hwy 8 is the most obvious, but also the most likely his car would be seen on camera, which is sort of why I consider he did this purposefully. Otherwise, WHY was he so far west of King Rd. Hopefully LE knows.

Personally, I think because of his background, he knew there was no way he could leave his home without being seen on surveillance cameras, and the likelihood of him getting into Moscow without being captured would be nearly impossible. Old Moscow Rd takes you directly to U of ID, so cameras there. Sand Rd would be much better, as @jepop mentioned, especially going straight to King Rd. But he didn't go straight there. He went somewhere east. And there just isn't any way that far east without likely going by places with cameras. That's my whole problem. I'm almost sure he was caught on more cameras than what we know about, and he had to know that, too. Thus my alibi fable...

My head hurts.

 

[lcookster]

Remember earlier when they were talking to his fellow students. Someone said he had 'mansplained' a basic idea to a female classmate. I agree completely that he thought he was more intelligent and more cunning than he actually was. And I agree that he got surprised by people and situations he had not planned for, and that caused him to become sloppy.

 

[gizmobtj]

Has anyone considered that XK was reciving her DoorDash delivery down on the 1st floor while BK was up on the 3rd floor. Seems possible and, perhaps even likely, that they then met face to face on the 2nd floor (as she was returning to her room and as he descended from killing the two girls). As he chased her into her room she exclaimed to EC that "someone is here". If she dropped her food on the way, that would explain why the roomates where concerned about her (per the 911), but not the girls on the 3rd flr. If the roomates peered under XK's bedroom door, they would have seen her lying on the floor (and perhaps her body was blocking the view of blood). Her roomates were probably thinking she was wasted to drop her food in the hall and then pass out on her floor.

Seems like almost everything happend at "approximately 4am" when, in reality, almost everything happend during 16 mins between 4:04am (when BK arrived) and 4:20am (when BK sped away). During that time, the order of DM's observations are know: noise upstairs (stuggling with KG), then "someone's here" (likely XK alerting EC), then crying (from XK), and then "I'm going to help you" (from BK). There are time-stamps for when XK stopped TikTok (4:12) and when the neighbor's security captured the "whimpering" and "thud" (4:17). All these events happend at "approx 4am" and so did the DoorDash delivery. The question is where does it fall in the sequence.

I'm new and haven't read this whole thread, so maybe this has already been discussed? Just wondering if anyone else had considered that DoorDash happened during (and not before) the murders.

Totally possible, but it's also possible he crep by her room. Keep in mind that he was not even out of his car before the DoorDash was dropped off. The Elenatra was last seen on camera at 4:04. Given it would take a few minutes to get in, he may not have entered or may have snuck by

 

[lonetraveler]

If BK maintains the KA-BAR knife was stolen, does this become a circumstantial case? Yes, his car has been caught in the area on several occasions, but he might find some way to explain that away. Perhaps he could say he left his phone in the car (hence the tracking) and the knife in the car, and someone kept "borrowing" the car. I am wondering if there is any other DNA evidence that would tie him to the crime scene ...

Did I really miss something this big or are you just speculating?

If BK maintains the KA-BAR knife was stolen, does this become a circumstantial case? Yes, his car has been caught in the area on several occasions, but he might find some way to explain that away. Perhaps he could say he left his phone in the car (hence the tracking) and the knife in the car, and someone kept "borrowing" the car. I am wondering if there is any other DNA evidence that would tie him to the crime scene ...

Have you any information that he has maintained this? Or are you just speculating?

 

[Leve]

Where did we read that the K's wounds were from lungs to liver? I must be behind??

Her dad said her wounds were different than MMs and more vicious. I think it was probably just that MM was asleep (and the first attacked) and K was moving around so the cuts weren't as "clean".

I tend to take everything K's dad says with a grain of salt.