ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 61

[Jeging]

MOO this started as his normal pattern of stalking and probably fantasizing in his car. Some reason triggered a move to drastic action. He took a knife he kept in the car a covid mask and went into the house to rape the one he had an obsession with.
Once inside at the M room he found two instead, killed them both, and then trying to leave was blocked by, a young woman wounded or killed her, then the wakening boyfriend, finished off the young woman and quickly left. Did not see the last one looking out her door.

It doesn't match up with his normal pattern, as on previous occasions (or at least 12 of them), he did not turn his phone off prior to arriving at Moscow.

 

[Charlot123]

Is there a reason for the speculation / discussion about BK "practicing" or studying anatomy with a dummy or animal carcass? IMO, this seems like a big reach and borderline insensitive unless there is something suggesting otherwise at this time.

While BK was probably not a vegan because of concerns over animal rights (it sounds like it was more about compulsion and control, and / or weight loss), if he didn't eat food cooked out of vessels that previously had meat in them, I have a hard time imagining him working with animal bodies / corpses of any kind. Just IMO. He also left Murphy unharmed for some reason and the mutilated dog in Moscow is currently said to be unrelated to the crime per LE.

And while Kaylee's dad mentioned the precise location of Kaylee's stab wounds (in the service of perhaps differentiating them from other victims'), I doubt that he spent much time deliberating on where to make blows. I don't know if we can really speculate on whether or not the manner of death was executed with any manner of precision, or if that's at all relevant at this point. All IMO, but this seems like a strange line of speculation at this point.

JMO - human anatomy is not the same as the “anatomy of a kill”. People here said, that aiming at the upper torso can be most devastating, but the thorax is like a protective cage. The knife would hit ribs, slip along bones. Maybe a bayonet could easily do the job, but no one would send untrained soldiers in a battle. It still feels like BK had prior experience with killing, but I don’t think he was killing animals. Animals didn’t make him angry as they don’t speak. People did.

Too many people from BK’s past and from WSU mentioned verbal conflicts. JMO, it would seem that BK could easily misconstrue what had been said. This is why when I read that MM had perfect sense of humor, I thought, maybe BK, indeed, came across her prior, and didn’t understand her easy jokes? It could have been enough to enrage him.

If these were BK’s first murders, but KG’s wounds were more extensive, as the article says, it serves to prove that she was his first victim.

There is a French proverb, “appetite comes with eating”, so maybe overkilling had to do with enjoying the process. Not sure.

 

[layer]

Animals didn’t make him angry as they don’t speak. People did.

I'm not at all convinced he was angry.

 

[MassGuy]

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger was unknown to victims, lawyer says

University of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger was unknown to the four students he allegedly stabbed, according to a lawyer for one of their families.

www.foxnews.com

MOSCOW, Idaho – University of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger was unknown to the victims, according to a lawyer for one of their families.

The 28-year-old criminology Ph.D. student is accused of entering the home of a group of sleeping University of Idaho undergrads and stabbing four of them to death on Nov. 13, according to police in Moscow, Idaho.

The ambush claimed the lives of Madison Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves, 21-year-old best friends, their housemate, Xana Kernodle, 20, and her boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, also 20, who was spending the night over.

Shanon Gray, the attorney for Goncalves' parents, said "no one" knew about Kohberger before the slayings.

 

[Charlot123]

MOO this started as his normal pattern of stalking and probably fantasizing in his car. Some reason triggered a move to drastic action. He took a knife he kept in the car a covid mask and went into the house to rape the one he had an obsession.
Once inside at the M room he found two instead, killed them both, and then trying to leave was blocked by, that woman killed the wakening boyfriend, finished off the i fired woman and quickly left. Did not see the last one looking out her door.

We don’t know what he was fantasizing about in his car, maybe killing, if we was studying “choice of victims”. I wonder if, prompted by lack of sleep and some other stressors, one night his obsessive imaginary world broke into the reality. I wonder if during his prior visits to the area, he switched off his phone as well?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm not at all convinced he was angry.

I'm thinking a range of emotions for this guy - resentment, anger/rage, thrill, adrenaline, curiosity, power, control and even aroused. I think he got most of those from the crime and it made him feel alive.

There are a couple articles saying how more chatty and engaged he was after... so there was some release for him. JMO, MOO

 

[Jeging]

I'll try to tackle this for you.
There are 2 separate issues there, kind of mixed together - cell tower pings and wifi connections.

AFAIK, it has never been stated, by SG or anyone, that BK's cell phone ever connected to the wifi at 1122 King Road.

In the PCA it is stated that BK's phone was utilizing cellular resources that provide coverage to the area of 1122 King Road on at least twelve occasions prior to November 13, 2022.

Call that 12 pings, if you like.

In an interview when commenting on these 12 pings, SG says "and close enough that his phone was touching their wifi".

When I am out and about, my cell phone automatically tries to connect to any nearby wifi. I assume it's a setting you can turn off. When it identifies a nearby wifi signal, it takes note of it in case I want to connect to it. This is "touching".

Take note that I would have to have the password etc to actually connect to a nearby wifi signal, and I assume that BK did not have the password for the router at 1122 King Road. And I doubt he would use it to connect even if he did have it if he had nefarious intentions.

Anyway, it is possible that the router at 1122 King Road kept a log of the various cell phones that were within range and touched it. Undoubtedly LE took the router to examine it for such logs. This may be why the monitor at the crime scene for weeks had this monitor display:

ETA: Photo source

Do you know of any WiFi routers which actually do this? Record the phone # which showed the wireless network as an available network.

Also, how far are the closest AT&T cell towers to the King Road residence? 1/4 mile? 1/2 mile? 1 mile?

 

[Interested Torontonian]

MOO this started as his normal pattern of stalking and probably fantasizing in his car. Some reason triggered a move to drastic action. He took a knife he kept in the car a covid mask and went into the house to rape the one he had an obsession with.
Once inside at the M room he found two instead, killed them both, and then trying to leave was blocked by, a young woman wounded or killed her, then the wakening boyfriend, finished off the young woman and quickly left. Did not see the last one looking out her door.

It's definitely *possible* - but what gives me pause is the house itself. There were 4-6 people living in the house at any time, + people coming in and out, and the house was weirdly structured.

There's no reason he could have expected to find one woman he wanted to rape in there and available. Everything about the house was challenging.

That's why it's weird to me - all of it seems very risky even for a dude who doesn't think the same way any of us do.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I have read nothing implying that one of the girls was found on top of the other. All that was stated is that both Maddie and Kaylee were found in the same bed. If you have heard otherwise, could you provide a link? Thanks.

Exactly what I have heard and read. One or the other could have even “crawled” onto the bed after the attack - or simply have been felled next to one another. Yet I’ve not read that either girl was found “atop” the other. Until all the minute details are revealed at trial…anything is possible. JMOO.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Regarding the noise complaint in Sept, yes it was loud, how creepy if he was stalking and upset he wasn't part of the party and called them in?

Completely within the “realm” of possibility. I’m
Positive LE will search the phone records to trace the call/caller on that one. They are taking zero chances and leaving no stone unturned. Discovery at trial will be something else…for sure. JMOO

 

[Miss Jennifer]

I get really uncomfortable when we borrow personality theories from a serial killer.

The term isn't Dr. Ramsland's - she learned it from BTK. Does he speak for all serial killers? No clue, but I bet he is happy to be remember for inventing a term that Dr R is now trying to introduce as a kind of general concept.

It's exceptionally similar to the concept of "compartmentalizing." We could also call it "acting."

Sure, I can understand why it would make you uncomfortable. I should've said, IMO, he's compartmentalizing or depersonalizing (common traits amongst many SK's) vs. using BTK's coined "cubing" assessment theory of his personality.

I'm most intrigued by the fact that BK studied under Dr. Ramsland and the eerie similarities between BK and BTK's first murders (that we know of thus far). I've always been fascinated by Dr. Ramsland's digging into the psyche of BTK.

 

[Muddy K]

It's interesting to view this crime from other perspectives.

Inside Higher Education - Accused Idaho Killer Studied Criminology

The article happens to include remarks from James Alan Fox, former dean of Northeastern's College of Criminal Justice and a renowned expert in his field. I've read with admiration several of his books about serial and mass murderers.

Also commenting is Mary Ellen O’Toole, who was frequently interviewed in the first few weeks after the murders for her insights into what sort of person may have killed these four young people.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

MOO this started as his normal pattern of stalking and probably fantasizing in his car. Some reason triggered a move to drastic action. He took a knife he kept in the car a covid mask and went into the house to rape the one he had an obsession with.
Once inside at the M room he found two instead, killed them both, and then trying to leave was blocked by, a young woman wounded or killed her, then the wakening boyfriend, finished off the young woman and quickly left. Did not see the last one looking out her door.

Something along those lines, although I do believe he placed a lot of care, planning, and preparation into his attack. If he wasn’t sure WHEN he would strike, he certainly seemed intent that specific night. I believe he left his apartment in full “KILL MODE” (in his clothing choice, mask, weapon, time, etc.). He’s a planner.

There are many killers who strike exactly as you described. I just don’t believe he’s one to leave so much to fate. Especially with so many family members touting his extreme case of OCD. That would make him even MORE careful, (to carefully and conscientiously plan to avoid detection or capture). To kill and exit. He was on a MISSION that night. One only HE knew about. And he is NOT keen on sharing it or accepting any responsibility (if proven guilty). He will fight this tooth and nail. He most assuredly will NOT ever plead guilty or admit the actual details of those moments inside of that house. We will be left to surmise and speculate.

With killers it always seems to be either/or when it comes to this facet of their crime and personality. They either readily, fully, sometimes proudly admit their direct role in the crime…or they boldly and steadfastly DENY any association or guilt with respect to the charges. BK is a capable Chameleon. Some of his immediate family work in mental health. Psychology. Some of it rubbed off on him and/or he gleaned useful info over dinner table conversations. He applied it where he thought it would work. He is an unusual case study, not as intellectual as some - but still Well above average.

And yes, he most definitively did NOT see DM standing inside her door.

JMOO

 

[debbiediablo]

His old friend Bree said they had a love of the outdoors and another friend said that BK loved to hike

I'm not convinced BCK ditched the knife; I think he spent substantial time finding an isolated location with a notable landmark (not famous, just easy to spot) to hide it. That knife is his trophy. MOO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

I get really uncomfortable when we borrow personality theories from a serial killer.

The term isn't Dr. Ramsland's - she learned it from BTK. Does he speak for all serial killers? No clue, but I bet he is happy to be remember for inventing a term that Dr R is now trying to introduce as a kind of general concept.

It's exceptionally similar to the concept of "compartmentalizing." We could also call it "acting."

This entire summation hits the nail right on the head. And I most definitely do not believe BTK to be the spokesperson for all SKs.

I agree that Dennis is probably swelling with some perverted twisted sense of pride over such delusions of professional and clinical recognition (which truly highlights the fact that both his megalomania and overblown hubris is on full vulgar display). JMOO

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

It seems the 12 times has nothing to do with WiFi. It appears as if it is based on a cell tower receiving a ping from the 8458 number.

Precisely. BINGO! Most killers do NOT carry personal phones to a kill. JMOO.

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

Jumping off your post because it keeps reminding me of a nagging thought (and I am admittedly a few threads behind) but does anyone else think there may have been an Alexa or dot within the home or maybe one on each floor? Would obviously record barking etc. IMO

Not sure, but can you imagine how helpful that would have proved for LE. Most is recorded and kept in the cloud. You can destroy or remove the device - but the recorded info is preserved nonetheless. JMOO

 

[want2solveit]

I'm not convinced BCK ditched the knife; I think he spent substantial time finding an isolated location with a notable landmark (not famous, just easy to spot) to hide it. That knife is his trophy. MOO

one of the victim's graves? Bruce Lee grave in Seattle?

 

[OckhamsRazor22]

IMO, they did not specify where the sounds came from. They cannot specify the dog barking on the camera recording was Murphy. It could have been some other dog somewhere, in fact. They can, and do, imply that these sounds are all linked to the murders and also imo imply that because it was so close to the house the sounds are linked to the house. If you take everything separate that is within the PCA, it doesn't really point to BK (a good defense attorney could tear each individual thing apart). This is a Probable Cause Affidavit. Because of all these things, we have reason to believe that this person was involved in some way with this crime. IMO until they got the DNA from the trash, they didn't have enough to arrest him at all.

There is no way they could win in court with only the PCA, IMO. It's just the minimum they needed to get the arrest warrant without tipping what else they might have, again IMO.

Remember, in a Probable Cause Affidavit the LEO’s are only going to divulge PART (a VERY small part) of the evidentiary material and facts they’ve collected. They are under zero obligation to show their entire hand at the time the arrest warrant was secured. They included the minimum info necessary to process the Murder charge and obtain the warrant and subsequent arrest. JMOO

 

[Helechawagirl]

I think you may be thinking of SG. The Goncalves family (both K's dad and sister) have repeatedly talked about Maddie as if she were another daughter/sister. They even mention her in K's obituary.

Maddie does have a stepfather that gave an interview