ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

[AggieMeg]

Something I just thought of while watching 20/20… why didn’t LE look at video surveillance from neighboring residences immediately?
It looks like they didn’t look at it until after they received the call from the mobile gas station attendant, who had gone through her video and seen a white Hyundai speeding by. But this was weeks later. Just seems odd that they wouldn’t have looked at the cameras surrounding the house much sooner.

 

[jepop]

Something I just thought of while watching 20/20… why didn’t LE look at video surveillance from neighboring residences immediately?
It looks like they didn’t look at it until after they received the call from the mobile gas station attendant, who had gone through her video and seen a white Hyundai speeding by. But this was weeks later. Just seems odd that they wouldn’t have looked at the cameras surrounding the house much sooner.

Where did you pick up the idea that LE did not canvas for or collect local CCTV immediately? IMO that is incorrect. Can you link where this is stated in 20/20 or elsewhere?

ETA: Note, the PCA has LE canvassing for video/camera footage in the local neighbourhood very early in the investigation.

 

[Which_pancake]

Yes agree, there's alot of compelling evidence in that PCA IMO!

Yes I guess that the PCA is meant to be taken as a whole. So they are not trying to say "D.M. can affirm she saw this man walking by" but rather "she saw someone she didn't know who fits BKs general description at a time where all this other evidence indicates he was at the house." And I definitely think they made the case there. The idea that the cell phone pings and car data do not prove he was actually in the house instead of in the general area would hold more water if there wasn't also testimony that someone who generally looks like him was seen in the house at that time. Well that and his knife sheath! All MOO

 

[wary]

For clarities sake regarding DM testfying.
The defense can call an eyewitness even if prosecution does not.
State law doesn't matter, due process clause of 6th Amendment guarantees the right.

Sixth Amendment

www.law.cornell.edu

moo

Correct. The question is—why would they want to?

 

[Friday Fan]

Another thing the Dateline episode revealed which I’m also not sure if this is old or not is when Kohberger’s cell phone through records was shown to be near the house several times in the months leading up to the murders, he was also picked up on their WiFi. So he had to have been really close.

Some speculation that he may have physically walked up to the house previously and did a “dry run” seeing if doors and windows were unlocked.

I'm very curious about the WiFi. It's not in the PCA. There's a gag order. I don't believe LE would have told Kaylee's dad.

Idaho murders: 5 key pieces of evidence against Bryan Kohberger | Fox News

The case against Bryan Kohberger for the Idaho quadruple homicide appears strong.

www.foxnews.com

Unless SG or someone he knew owned the router, I don't know how he would have access to that info...
Did he obtain the data from the landlord or would LE lock that down right away?

 

[jepop]

Yes I guess that the PCA is meant to be taken as a whole. So they are not trying to say "D.M. can affirm she saw this man walking by" but rather "she saw someone she didn't know who fits BKs general description at a time where all this other evidence indicates he was at the house." And I definitely think they made the case there. The idea that the cell phone pings and car data do not prove he was actually in the house instead of in the general area would hold more water if there wasn't also testimony that someone who generally looks like him was seen in the house at that time. Well that and his knife sheath! All MOO

Makes sense to me, and I concur! The whole is a sum of the parts. The whole is enough to establish probable cause in this case. And forgot to add before that IMO, the prosecution's case will have far more evidence than what is in the PCA, as you noted - both digital and physical. MOO

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Post in thread 'ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 63' ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 63

(Snipped by me from post above in previous thread)

I believe the cororner was asked about it in an interview and the best she could offer was that it certainly looked like blood but no real confirmation, which has always left me wondering if DM just paid for a photoshopped picture.

I don't have an opinion on what the substance is but from photos/videos of the house, it doesn't appear to have been there a few weeks earlier.

Regarding whether a title bought a photoshopped image, I think this is highly unlikely. Both the DM and Fox News ran similar images with slightly different frames/angles credited to different photographers. Maybe tasteless but I don't think faked.

Ultimately I don't think it has any evidentiary value but many posters have wondered if these images were genuine. It seems so.

(Apologies for the graphic headlines but the photographers' names are in these links.)

University of Idaho murders: blood seen oozing from house amid reports of previous threat

Months before four University of Idaho students were murdered, a man allegedly menaced a group of students on campus with a knife as new photos emerged of the crime scene.

www.foxnews.com

Blood oozes from home where four Idaho students were killed

Sources in Moscow, Idaho, say the house where four students were brutally murdered Sunday was the worst they have ever seen. There was so much blood that it oozed through the walls.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[sunshineray]

I question the neighbor waited four weeks to remember an open door considering all the chaos which ensued that afternoon and in days following. LE would likely not have made this public if it is true, but, given that half the campus knew the keypad combination and if the door really was open, a small part of me wonders who might have happened along earlier in morning...and why they weren't overwhelmed by the smell of blood. Blood reference is from this Howard Blum article linked several days ago. An Exclusive Look Inside the Idaho Murders: Part I

Just because the neighbor's account wasn't in print for the public to read until 4 weeks later doesn't mean it wasn't told to the first LE that canvassed them after the murders. Investigators probably knew this information early when asking for videos and eyewitnesses in the immediate neighborhood. Other things may also have downgraded the front door for investigators in favour of another way in or out for the killer. They seemed to be interested in that small window next to the slider door too, possible entry if slider door was in fact locked. Just some thoughts.

 

[AggieMeg]

Where did you pick up the idea that LE did not canvas for or collect local CCTV immediately? IMO that is incorrect. Can you link where this is stated in 20/20 or elsewhere?

ETA: Note, the PCA has LE canvassing for video/camera footage in the local neighbourhood very early in the investigation.

I’m watching it streaming on Hulu on my TV so I can’t link it. But it is around 34 minutes in on the 20/20 special that aired last night. This is after the gas station attendant reported the Hyundai and they are describing the police seeking information on a Hyundai. The man says “then they go to a local apartment complex and they get more video footage and low and behold between 4:00-4:25 AM, and this white car is seen on the streets just at this time”.

This to me is stating they didn’t collect all the video from the apartment complex before that? JMO

 

[layer]

There were at least two footprints.
I‘ve seen an image of LE taking a picture of a footprint outside the home.

Can you dig that up for me? I never saw that. If not, no problem.
TIA

 

[AngTxGal]

I will be stunned if that's all that was found. I believe that's just all they put in the PCA. Unfortunately, this is starting to look like a game of Telephone. It starts out as a bloody footprint in the hall and ends up as a bloody car in the driveway.

It depends on where the door to DM’s room was located.

Daily Mail Floorplan
This floor plans show the door to DMs 2nd floor room on the livingroom side.

Johnny Law YouTube house breakdown
This video proposes that DM may not be on the 1st floor but on the 2nd instead.
We know now by the PCA that DM was in the 2nd floor bedroom he has as 2A on the southeast corner of the home. He has the door to DMs room as being on the kitchen side.
5.00 Begins description of 2A- DM’s room
7.53 shows the hallway from living room with door open to DM’s room and window to rear of the house visible. The door to the room is on the hall/ kitchen side, not the living room side.

If The Killer walked down the stairs he would ‘pass’ the doorway to DM’s room.
Which way does the door open? I cannot tell from the photo.
If that door opens into the room with hinges on the left side (from inside the room) she could have seen him pass by and toward the kitchen with the door only cracked. She would be looking out of a door pulled toward her, with her head on the right side of the opening.

If The Killer walked from Xana’s room he would also pass the doorway to DM’s room.
If that door opens into the room with hinges on the right side (from inside the room) she could see him with her door cracked and he was coming from Xana’s room and he would be walking toward her, and he fully passed her door on his way toward the sliding door.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Agree, only to my mind it isn't only a matter of Dylan being unable to identify the defendent (BK) because at least part of her police statement (via PCA) already shows that she did not recognise the person she saw, IMO. IMO the defense, if they question her, will attempt to show that she could not have reasonably identified the basic characteristics of the person - height, build, eybrows - owing to lighting factors, confusion, intoxication or whatever else they deem relevant to raise. MOO

I just was reading this and it seemed like it could be relevant to DM's recall of what she saw that night...since she fell back asleep. It's fascinating and a very easy read.

Sleep On It

When you learn something new, the best way to remember it is to sleep on it. That’s because sleep helps strengthen the memories you’ve formed throughout the day.

newsinhealth.nih.gov

 

[jepop]

I’m watching it streaming on Hulu on my TV so I can’t link it. But it is around 34 minutes in on the 20/20 special that aired last night. This is after the gas station attendant reported the Hyundai and they are describing the police seeking information on a Hyundai. The man says “then they go to a local apartment complex and they get more video footage and low and behold between 4:00-4:25 AM, and this white car is seen on the streets just at this time”.

This to me is stating they didn’t collect all the video from the apartment complex before that? JMO

IMO, the gas station attendant got it wrong, and I would be very surprised if what he says is presented as fact in the program. I haven't watched this program and won't as I am not in the states. Perhaps others can comment who have watched it. LE collected local footage ASAP, in the immediate days after the crime. They would have already had the Queen Road/King Road apartment footage 2 weeks after the crime. See PCA for reference and search articles from week beginning November 13th. MOO

 

[AggieMeg]

IMO, the gas station attendant got it wrong, and I would be very surprised if what he says is presented as fact in the program. I haven't watched this program and won't as I am not in the states. Perhaps others can comment who have watched it. LE collected local footage ASAP, in the immediate days after the crime. They would have already had the Queen Road/King Road apartment footage 2 weeks after the crime. See PCA for reference and search articles from week beginning November 13th. MOO

And in that case, if they did… why did they wait until the gas attendant story before seeking information from the public on the Hyundai? I’m just confused on the whole Hyundai timeline.

 

[layer]

It depends on where the door to DM’s room was located.

Daily Mail Floorplan
This floor plans show the door to DMs 2nd floor room on the livingroom side.

Johnny Law YouTube house breakdown
This video proposes that DM may not be on the 1st floor but on the 2nd instead.
We know now by the PCA that DM was in the 2nd floor bedroom he has as 2A on the southeast corner of the home. He has the door to DMs room as being on the kitchen side.
5.00 Begins description of 2A- DM’s room
7.53 shows the hallway from living room with door open to DM’s room and window to rear of the house visible. The door to the room is on the hall/ kitchen side, not the living room side.

If The Killer walked down the stairs he would ‘pass’ the doorway to DM’s room.
Which way does the door open? I cannot tell from the photo.
If that door opens into the room with hinges on the left side (from inside the room) she could have seen him pass by and toward the kitchen with the door only cracked. She would be looking out of a door pulled toward her, with her head on the right side of the opening.

If The Killer walked from Xana’s room he would also pass the doorway to DM’s room.
If that door opens into the room with hinges on the right side (from inside the room) she could see him with her door cracked and he was coming from Xana’s room and he would be walking toward her, and he fully passed her door on his way toward the sliding door.

JMO

DM's room is at an interesting intersection. Directly to the left of her doorway, looking out, is the stairway leading up to the third floor. In front is the very short hallway leading to the kitchen and sliding glass door. To the right is the even shorter hallway leading to the living room through which the killer would have had to pass to get to and from X's room. The door opens inward, into her room, with the hinges on the living room side.

 

[maskedwoman]

It not enough. Not even close. Imo none of the evidence released in the PCA is enough on its own. If the Knife used isn't a KAbar and he didn’t leave any other dna the case isn't strong. I think they have more tho. I think his hard drives will be his undoing. moo

I wouldn't expect the contents of the PCA to ever be enough on its own. For that, they just need enough to convince the judge that he's a solid enough suspect to let them arrest him. This whole thing is a chess match. The police/prosecution aren't going to reveal their best evidence until they absolutely have to.

Short of having a video of the murders as they occurred, I don't really see the individual pieces as something that wins a trial. Not even the DNA on the sheath.

The prosecutor will use all those pieces of evidence to paint a landscape of the crime. It's the finished painting that will convict him. Not the individual elements.

 

[Ceska]

Thanks!

Heartbreaking. Police did not contact the family until 4:30 that afternoon, wow. To learn about this through family, and not LE, must have been especially difficult. I now understand even more where SG was coming from.

 

[sleuth.sloth]

I just want to take a minute to acknowledge that, while no investigation is perfect and we are all bothered by the “no threat to the public” remark so soon, I’m really impressed overall by the Moscow PD. IMO the fact that such a small police force with little to no experience in homicide located a suspect at all in this case shows a great deal of persistence and follow-through. Comparing it to similar cases local to me (NC & the case that comes to mind is Faith Hedgepeth), it’s night and day. I am hopeful that they will continue to follow all leads and build evidence between now and the next court date. Fwiw I have faith in them.

 

[jepop]

And in that case, if they did… why did they wait until the gas attendant story before seeking information from the public on the Hyundai? I’m just confused on the whole Hyundai timeline.

Investigative tactics IMO. LE deemed that date as the opportune time to release those details to the public. But IMO, LE themselves would have been quietly on the look out for white hyundais as soon as analysts identified the make and model from the local footage. The PCA is correct IMO and the local Gas Station attendant is mistaken. MOO.

ETA> My misreading of your post. Not the local gas attendent but "the man (presumably the program presenter) is mistaken, or the conclusions you draw here

ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

Yes, DM seeing man in black leaving through kitchen to back door, he was upstairs first. Jmo I wonder if DM also smelled blood and that was part of why she was so traumatized. I remember coming home from work one day and knowing as soon as I opened the front door that our pregnant guinea pig...

www.websleuths.com

are mistaken.

 

[Sundog]

I don't recall Bethany being part of the affidavit whatsoever. Sure you do not mean Xana?

Not sure if anyone has posted this information yet, still catching up this morning. But the reference to Bethany is on page 5 of the affadavit posted below, first paragraph on page 5. Mentions phones of BF and DM (Bethany and Dylan).

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922%20Affidavit%20-%20Exhibit%20A%20-%20Statement%20of%20Brett-Payne.pdf