ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

[Boodles]

I’ve posted this before, but I have cams and have never heard sounds from inside the neighbors’ houses. I’ve heard extremely loud yelling (DV) from inside a neighbor‘s house (with their doors & windows closed) while I was outside, but never while inside, and definitely not via cams.

And again, I thought cams were motion activated. So if a sound was heard emanating from inside 1122, wouldn’t there need to be corresponding/simultaneous motion outside to trigger the recording?

I’m so skeptical that a thud was heard from inside 1122. I could believe that Murphy barking at the window as BK was running away is a possibility, though. Kaylee’s window would be aligned close to the neighbor’s cam, I think. As for the voices/whimper….idk.

Has anyone ever had sound captured on their cam from inside a neighbor home 50’ away (without motion)?

Are cams sound only activated?

I posted this ^^. Never mind. I’m watching 48 Hours and they just played audio from a cam that captured screaming from the house across the street…audio only, not motion triggered. They said it was an ADT system cam. So it’s possible. (But I still question a cam capturing a thud from inside a house 50’ away. I guess we’ll find out sooner or later.)

 

[Which_pancake]

I'm not totally sure DM would even be called to testify at trial at all. Maybe they needed her statement in the PCA to get the arrest, but they likely will have much more strong evidence to present at trial that establishes BK as the person who was in the house committing the murders that they don't need her comparatively weak statement that she saw someone with characteristics that don't exclude him. MOO

 

[Kcmom3*]

Maybe he thought that after a big drinking/partying night they would all be asleep and defenseless.

It would be interesting to know which days of the week he had previously driven by the 12 times prior to the murders, and what he observed.

True, and do we know for sure that his reason for being around their house was to stalk them or to plan this? I wonder if he possibly had a legitimate reason for being in the area 12 times, and that’s how he found the girls. Maybe he has a friend in the neighborhood and they tried going to one of the parties. Or he was leaving someone’s apartment and noticed he could see into their rooms from the parking lot.

 

[r3d-ros3]

It's speculation. I do believe I've put JMO and MOO everywhere (even though it's also a professional opinion, one should take it with a grain of salt).

I'm pretty sure that any department that has funding independent of the public model for the state it's in (as I'm claiming and others are indicating for the Criminology Doctoral Program) is also pretty tough on its students. Professors have to agree to receive a student as a TA or RA, from semester to semester. They're being given money that many other students don't get.

Therefore, professors try very hard not to choose/retain students who are a problem. A professor who goes all the way to mass confrontation against a TA is either 1) scared for her own job or 2) thinks he's a real problem. IMO.

So what happened is this. BK gets a great position at a well-funded (but not super highly ranked) doctoral program in criminology. He finally gets to launch. He is assigned (according to people here) 20 hours of TA-ing a week (possibly his first hourly paid job since just after high school). It doesn't pay much, but he gets free tuition.

What happens if no one will take him as a TA in Spring? Hmmm. No graduate student has ever been told that they can keep their job no matter what - there are lots of rules to follow, specifically Title IX.

SO, there are 150 students who complain about BK (apparently, according to MSM). This is big. This is in the week before the murders, IIRC. Then, the next week after being admonished and confronted, he returns to grading and gives ever student 100% on everything. This is a dishonest approach, but in my world, that's a big middle finger to the prof and to academia. This is no bueno. He knows that.

But everyone says he's all chipper and happy. Then - when the Elantra issue comes up, he's all sleepless and tired.

The prof and the students thought they had "effectuated change in the status of BK's complaint situation."

Instead, unbeknownst to them, he has just committed a quadruple homicide.

This makes sense! I think it's reasonable to speculate on BK's perceived failures / loss of self worth in relation to a new and very important (to him) job he had as a Criminology PhD student. I just wondered if there was a source or interview that implied this was true, but again, I think it makes a lot of sense.

Weird, though, to imagine him stalking victim(s) at 1122 King road as early as August, when he just began his program, if we follow this line of inquiry.

 

[Walela]

Here's where that camera was:

Moscow Homicide

A Moscow police officer talks to residents of a neighboring home as part of a homicide investigation at 1122 King Road on Sunday, Nov. 13, 2022, in Moscow.

www.khq.com

Yes. Thank you. And LE in their own sworn affidavit stated "distorted audio" and IMO the key word here is "distorted". The sounds weren't clear hence the usage of "what sounded like..."
IMO and IMO only, the only sound LE could clearly identify was a dog barking which was why it was included as a new sentence.

 

[debbiediablo]

Even if one person was the original target, he must have been prepared to kill anybody he came across. At that point anyone in the house would become targets. He must have seen the five cars parked in front so likely would have known the house was full. He also may have seen lights turned on inside and the doordash delivery. Yet he still went inside with the intention to kill people

IMO, what if there were one really really brilliant student who didn’t like BK and wanted to get back at him?

So how does this "set up" play out? Here's what I come up with, and it's not exactly convincing! The brilliant student (BS) somehow gets BCK to handle the snap on a KaBar sheath or else steals the sheath and the knife that belongs to BCK. Then BS gains access to BCK's phone at least thirteen times, eleven of them in the middle of the night, and one more on November 12-13. BS borrows or steals BCK's car (or borrows, buys, rents one like it and manages to evade LE and entire NW searching for it) and uses the lookalike to commit the crime, then to come back again in the morning. Last but maybe the most challenging, BS somehow convinces BCK to throw the family trash into the neighbor's dumpster in PA. He's also lucky enough to have homegrown bushy eyebrows or he pastes on a set purchased on eBay. MOO

 

[drmrgrl]

Just because the neighbor's account wasn't in print for the public to read until 4 weeks later doesn't mean it wasn't told to the first LE that canvassed them after the murders. Investigators probably knew this information early when asking for videos and eyewitnesses in the immediate neighborhood. Other things may also have downgraded the front door for investigators in favour of another way in or out for the killer. They seemed to be interested in that small window next to the slider door too, possible entry if slider door was in fact locked. Just some thoughts.

IMO, that window was fairly small….

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

So, basically your idea is that someone akin to Sherlock Holmes nemesis Moriarty decided to:

1)frame BK for murder,
2) either knew he already owned a knife and a sheath and stole it, or got him to put his DNA on a sheath,
3) knew enough of his habits to lure him to a house he's driven to a dozen times, always either late at night or very early in the morning
4) killed four innocent people, and missed two
5) left the sheath beside two of the bodies,
6) and did all of that without showing up on the various security cameras themselves

I wouldn't classify that as not liking someone. That's hating someone with every fiber of your being. BK would have had to work hard to make someone hate him that much just since moving to Washington. Surely there would be evidence of that relationship.

And in my book, being willing to murder 4 innocent people just to get back at one other person, would make that person a total psychopath. If we assume that the masked person inside the house is "Moriarty", and not BK, then that person also missed D peeping out her bedroom door and left no evidence of themselves behind at all. If he didn't kill anyone, but was lured there, and never came inside, he wouldn't have known anyone was dead. Why flee the scene?

If he didn't know people were dead, he should have been absolutely freaked out when SWAT busted in and arrested him for four murders. Yet his PA PD said he was very calm, which sounds like he wasn't that surprised. Why didn't he at least tell the police they had the wrong person? Or that he was framed? I would even be telling the press when they perp walked me into the courthouse.

Elementary.

 

[WingsOverTX]

It's speculation. I do believe I've put JMO and MOO everywhere (even though it's also a professional opinion, one should take it with a grain of salt).

I'm pretty sure that any department that has funding independent of the public model for the state it's in (as I'm claiming and others are indicating for the Criminology Doctoral Program) is also pretty tough on its students. Professors have to agree to receive a student as a TA or RA, from semester to semester. They're being given money that many other students don't get.

Therefore, professors try very hard not to choose/retain students who are a problem. A professor who goes all the way to mass confrontation against a TA is either 1) scared for her own job or 2) thinks he's a real problem. IMO.

So what happened is this. BK gets a great position at a well-funded (but not super highly ranked) doctoral program in criminology. He finally gets to launch. He is assigned (according to people here) 20 hours of TA-ing a week (possibly his first hourly paid job since just after high school). It doesn't pay much, but he gets free tuition.

What happens if no one will take him as a TA in Spring? Hmmm. No graduate student has ever been told that they can keep their job no matter what - there are lots of rules to follow, specifically Title IX.

SO, there are 150 students who complain about BK (apparently, according to MSM). This is big. This is in the week before the murders, IIRC. Then, the next week after being admonished and confronted, he returns to grading and gives ever student 100% on everything. This is a dishonest approach, but in my world, that's a big middle finger to the prof and to academia. This is no bueno. He knows that.

But everyone says he's all chipper and happy. Then - when the Elantra issue comes up, he's all sleepless and tired.

The prof and the students thought they had "effectuated change in the status of BK's complaint situation."

Instead, unbeknownst to them, he has just committed a quadruple homicide.

IMO. Make of it what you will. But he probably thought he was going to lose both his grad school position AND his free tuition (to join a different program would have meant...tuition again). I personally don't understand programs that do this (offer first year students so much when the program itself is not #1-5 in the rankings) but I suppose they're trying really hard to recruit the best students they can. This whole situation leaves WSU's Criminology Program as yet another community victim.

Is my point. IMO.

Well, with a mentor like the prof who instigated that open classroom criticism of BK (an extremely poor way to handle the student complaints & help BK improve) I'm not sure WSU should not be reviewing its faculty & the program to ensure it is promoting a proper & collegial environment for all.

If indeed it impacted BK in terms of his motivation to commit these crimes, that's on him. The timing is interesting.

If he didn't choose mass murder, I'm sure he could have moved forward with a new plan if WSU was not a fit.

But "wherever you go, there you are" so the future was not bright for him or any people he decided to victimize.

JMO

 

[10ofRods]

This makes sense! I think it's reasonable to speculate on BK's perceived failures / loss of self worth in relation to a new and very important (to him) job he had as a Criminology PhD student. I just wondered if there was a source or interview that implied this was true, but again, I think it makes a lot of sense.

Weird, though, to imagine him stalking victim(s) at 1122 King road as early as August, when he just began his program, if we follow this line of inquiry.

Which makes me think that he had already established a college-based level of stalking before this (which is why I was able to guess, before we ever knew his name or arrest, that he might be a marginal college student - it's really rather common, I fear).

It's one reason that the women in my classes do NOT regard college as the place to meet young men for dating. Sorority girls (ours are off campus) feel safer with the fraternity boys in their associated Greek houses. Orthodox students go to church to find someone, etc. Jewish students avail themselves of clubs, organizations and synagogues (not to mention parental parties) to find someone, and so on.

I feel bad for a lot of the normal college men, but they know they need to approach women in a non-stalkerly manner (meeting them in class, doing homework together in the library, etc). But, it's hard because young women are rather suspicious of young men. Party atmospheres breakdown these inhibitions, IME. He knew that already, IMO. He knew where to find disinhibited young women and even if all they did was speak their friends' names in front of him (so that he could memorize them), that was a coup for him. He was counting coup, if my theory is correct.

IMO. SPECULATION.

 

[Helechawagirl]

I see.
Well, I meant this "derealisation" /lack of emotions, feeling like a misfit/"a sack of meat", suicidal thoughts, etc, etc.

Hmmm...
It all sounds very worrying.

Provided, of course, that he was the poster.

JMO

Usually you are the one who answers my questions! I have learned alot from you on other threads.

Many many factors come out in the Penalty Phase Trial, just about anything in the defendant's past can be used by both the prosecution and the defense. The defense would lean heavily on psychiatric factors, any signs in BK's past of mental illness. Psychologists and psychiatrists and a Mitigation Specialist would take the stand to testify.

IF he was in this situation, BK's family could testify for the defense. The prosecution might want to put a victim's family member on the stand but I have seen defense attorneys filing Motions against this stating that victim testimony is too prejudicial, same for crime scene photos. The judge would rule on who can testify and what photos can be used.

If BK is NOT charged with Death Penalty Specifications then he has nothing to lose by going to trial. If he wanted to get attention and cause a stir, as you pointed out, all he would have to do is take the stand in his own defense. Then everything he says will end up online for a world wide audience. Even if his trial were not televised the media would be allowed in the courtroom gallery to report on his every word. Even without taking the stand BK would get weeks and weeks of the media watching and talking about his every move and expression as they do now.

I believe the only possible reason that BK would even consider pleading guilty is if he is charged with Death Penalty Specifications and his attorneys convince him that the evidence is overwhelming against him and he will likely end up on death row. In this scenario he would be wise to seek a plea deal with prosecutors, in plea deals there is an exchange between the defendant and the State. The defendant agrees to plead guilty in exchange for the State dropping the DP, normally this means LWOP.

The prosecution always gets family input when a defendant wants to take a plea deal, especially in a Case like this, also, the judge has to accept the plea deal.

Even if BK knows he is unlikely to be put to death in Idaho for lack of drugs, I do not think he will want to be on death row. On death row he will be very isolated and cut off from working and participating in recreational and other activities. Also, it would put more restrictions on him communicating with the public, limiting his communication. There are always people who want to communicate with killers like him, even "killer fan clubs."

But no one needs to get upset if BK ends up in prison - off of death row - with a "murder fan club" reaching out to him.

Why?

Because the reality is that he will most likely be locked away in a maximum security unit where many hours are spent locked in your cell, possibly with roommates and no privacy.

The other reality is that I strongly believe he would have a target on his back and would have threats made against him and be at risk of being hurt or killed. So what would likely happen is that the prison would lock him up in protective custody ie...segregation, and he would be isolated in a "different kind of death row type situation."

I don’t think the prosecution will will offer a plea deal. JMO

 

[BelleIsle]

\ BK never mentions hearing voices in any of his TapATalk missives, which go on for a couple of years. We are allowed to use what he says there. He describes a specific auditory disturbance (which can be part of VSS) and another person responds that they have the same auditory disturbance, but it's not hearing voices.

RSBM.
He was only 15 in some of those entries, he could have been in the early stages of schizophrenia. I'm not stating this definitively because that requires an in person assessment/diagnosis (the court will appoint someone to do this), obviously, but I don't think we should (on can, in speculation) completely rule it out as an option. IMO

 

[Kcmom3*]

For me it's often about water. I came very close to drowning as a young child

So how does this "set up" play out? Here's what I come up with, and it's not exactly convincing! The brilliant student (BS) somehow gets BCK to handle the snap on a KaBar sheath or else steals the sheath and the knife that belongs to BCK. Then BS gains access to BCK's phone at least thirteen times, eleven of them in the middle of the night, and one more on November 12-13. BS borrows or steals BCK's car (or borrows, buys, rents one like it and manages to evade LE and entire NW searching for it) and uses the lookalike to commit the crime, then to come back again in the morning. Last but maybe the most challenging, BS somehow convinces BCK to throw the family trash into the neighbor's dumpster in PA. He's also lucky enough to have homegrown bushy eyebrows or he pastes on a set purchased on eBay. MOO

I think it’s possible that BK had a legitimate reason for being in the area the other 11 times. He could know someone around there. This could be how he found the girls.

I don’t think it’s that outlandish to think someone could get into his apartment, take his knife, car keys, and maybe phone (or put phone on airplane mode), and return before he woke up. This actually makes more sense to me then taking your own car, knife, and phone - guaranteeing that you will get caught.

He might have realized he had been framed, which is why he didn’t clean the car and dispose of trash until several weeks after the murders.

 

[drmrgrl]

DM's room is at an interesting intersection. Directly to the left of her doorway, looking out, is the stairway leading up to the third floor. In front is the very short hallway leading to the kitchen and sliding glass door. To the right is the even shorter hallway leading to the living room through which the killer would have had to pass to get to and from X's room. The door opens inward, into her room, with the hinges on the living room side.

IMO, do you thinks its possible that DM tried to escape the home? By jumping off of the upper balcony, quick rushing out the back slider or running to a different bedroom thru out the crime? Same thing for BF. I have always wonder about that screen that is laying in the backyard next to the cinder block. Did BF try to escape the house by taking or pushing off the screen? Or…did an intruder try to enter the home thru BFs bedroom and that alerted her?

 

[10ofRods]

Well, with a mentor like the prof who instigated that open classroom criticism of BK (an extremely poor way to handle the student complaints & help BK improve) I'm not sure WSU should not be reviewing its faculty & the program to ensure it is promoting a proper & collegial environment for all.

If indeed it impacted BK in terms of his motivation to commit these crimes, that's on him. The timing is interesting.

If he didn't choose mass murder, I'm sure he could have moved forward with a new plan if WSU was not a fit.

But "wherever you go, there you are" so the future was not bright for him or any people he decided to victimize.

JMO

EXACTLY! This is my point! Since the resolution of his personal situation ended VERY BADLY, he found a way to show them - those profs and administrators! National attention and, well, embarrassment. It was an add-on to his grievance collection and his "I'll show them" collection. It was not just a public embarassment, though, it had potentially major real consequences to his life.

I am pretty much focused on the "Why them? and Why that weekend?" question. He had been percolating along "coping" without complete decompensation. It probably started unraveling at the beginning of his time in Pullman, as it was apparently his first time away from home (IMO; MOO; SPECULATION; no countering evidence whatsoever). Then bad went to worse as he realized his interpersonal style was not working in the TA position (not surprised - but WSU decided to put first year doctoral students in that role, despite the fact that he had no teaching experience). Of course, most assistant profs have very little teaching experience - and I will try and track down who the prof actually was (and if I can find an allowable source of info, I'll post it here, otherwise MOO).

I suspect BK felt he had waited a long time for adulthood and acceptance by "his people." He probably hoped WSU and its group of...what, 8-10 criminology students per cohort?...would provide him with "his people" and some acceptance. In his darker moments, though, he figured things would go badly and he had much darker fantasies. Similar to Charles Whitman (who had greater social success, but it was the 60's). He became the University of Texas Clocktower mass murderer - one of our earliest university mass murderers.

Whitman was also a family annihilator, but my point still stands. He also had a brain issue.

 

[MsBetsy]

Did he see the DD driver? Wasn’t that just before he got there?
Wonder if he practiced sneaking around in houses where people are sleeping, had experience with how unconscious sleeping people are.

We don't know the exact time of the doordash delivery, just that it was "approximately" 4:00 am. The white elantra passed by the house 3 times and made a three quarter turn before BK entered the house. His vehicle was seen the fourth time entering the area at 4:04 am.

So it's possible that BK saw another car pull up to the house when he passed by one of the three times.

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

I think it’s possible that BK had a legitimate reason for being in the area the other 11 times. He could know someone around there. This could be how he found the girls.

I don’t think it’s that outlandish to think someone could get into his apartment, take his knife, car keys, and maybe phone (or put phone on airplane mode), and return before he woke up. This actually makes more sense to me then taking your own car, knife, and phone - guaranteeing that you will get caught.

He might have realized he had been framed, which is why he didn’t clean the car and dispose of trash until several weeks after the murders.

Hope the defense tries that theory!!

 

[Charlot123]

Gotcha. Yes, the derealization and the depersonalization are very concerning. I'm still reading what I can about recent research on VSS and its psychiatric correlations. It appears no one knows whether this is simply a reaction to the visual disturbances (which in BK's case include what the rest of us would call "visual hallucinations") but they're weird ones, as they are apparently always "afterimages" - the sudden reappearance of something one has already seen.

This can accompany various forms of dementia but it can also be a side effect of some medications. In VSS, it is part of the illness and is documented. These bizarre and startling reappearances of scenes or objects or people from the past are disturbing to patients (not all VSS sufferers have this, but a high proportion of them do - and BK describes it very well).

I think this is a boat load of symptoms for a person in their teens to deal with (he says the symptoms started abruptly at age 9 - and abrupt start of symptoms is common in VSS). My own trigeminal neuralgia just popped up one morning, waking me from sleep and heading me out to the ER as fast as I could rouse my husband. I say this because neurological disorders typically have a different kind of onset than psychiatric ones.

Could he have both schizophrenia AND VSS? Yes. But what a poor draw in the health lottery that would be. Schizophrenia is often genetic and runs in families, no such association for VSS that I can find so far. And, I will say, what writings we do have from him do not fit my own model of l"schizophrenic writing," a topic which I am very interested in. I now wish i'd kept every scrap of it that I encountered but we didn't have cell phones back in those days.

Here's an article about the common accompanying conditions and symptoms of VSS (schizophrenia is not one of them):

Visual snow: A thalamocortical dysrhythmia of the visual pathway?

In this paper we review the visual snow (VS) characteristics of a case cohort of 32 patients. History of symptoms and associated co-morbidities, ophth…

www.sciencedirect.com

So, if BK is indeed schizophrenic AND a VSS sufferer, he's a rare bird indeed.

(I just found one article on the relationship between schizophrenia and VSS - but it's not about actual clinical data, it's about the parts of the brain involved). Anyway, I'm off to read that too - as it is a very intriguing question. I have a bit of case study info that some might find interesting (about a particular VSS sufferer and their mental health),

We have extremely limited information about BK's mental health status. It would not seem to me personally that BK suffers from schizophrenia, and time-wise, it is unlikely either. His VSS was described at the age when it would be unlikely to have a first break. Too early. To add to it, if his classmates' account of BK using drugs in adolescence is to be believed, then how does one discriminate between drug-induced psychosis (if BK showed psychotic simptoms) and organic mental illness? Very hard.

About VSS, i read some information as well, but it is a "syndrome", so the underlying conditions might be different for different people. JMO. I don't believe that we shall be able to understand what BK suffered from, without additional medical information. The array of treatment modalities mentioned for VSS might also hint at different origins of the condition in its sufferers.

Looking through the list of the medications prescribed for the condition, I suddenly thought, what if BK was on some psychoactive drug for years prescribed for his VSS, and did relatively well? After all, most reports about him in adult years mention some social issues, but he maintained a steady job, got Masters and was accepted to Ph.D. program. One thing that comes to mind is the story of BK applying for police internship with Pullman PD (link Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger applied for internship at Pullman Police Department in fall 2022). Makes me wonder if he stopped his medications before that? (He probably had to fill in some paperwork for application). This could have eventually caused a shift in thinking patterns. JMO, I don't have any information about his medical history.

 

[acutename]

I ask again -- where is the source confirming BK was at risk for losing his TA position, or was being penalized for the low grade he assigned his students? Thanks in advance!

This student describes how all the students complained about BK's overly critical grading and the Prof set up a meeting in which each of the students could challenge their grades and BK was to defend them. Unclear how critical this was- did the Prof want BK to ease up or did he want the students to raise their level of study? But after the murders, BK just gave everbody 100%. (not sure if he was 100% disgusted or just trying to do what he was told- IMO) (on Youtube but from ABC news)

Former student of Idaho murder suspect describes abrupt ...​

https://www.youtube.com › watch






Preview



5:01

Washington State University student Hayden Stinchfield talks about how his criminology class TA Bryan Kohberger's behavior changed after the ...
YouTube · ABC 7 Chicago · 2 weeks ago

 

[Helechawagirl]

Oh that's a good point. I hadn't noticed that before.

Maybe the thud was the bedroom door shutting? JMO