ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[Pretty Go Pale]

The lack of a sexual assault / motivated sexual attack is much more terrifying i think.
It means his goal was to sneak in, stab people and get out again. There doesn’t seem to be enough time for him to stay and torture the victims beforehand, admire what he’d done afterwards. He’s just gone straight in, murdered, and left

Truly terrifying

I do wonder if his original plan was to murder them and sexually attack afterwards, but they’d have been covered in blood at that point. I don’t know if this changed his mind? I’m really baffled by his motive.

I suspect there was a sexual component to the plan/motive.

 

[SkylarSid]

I watched an interview with a NYPD detective/CSI expert. He stated that evidence can be collected from the HVAC intake filters - hair. dog hair, sin cells, respiration molecules etc. all get sucked up into the filter and system.

Maybe the HVAC if full of his shed DNA?

His and 154 others (due to the party reported to have happened the night before as per Dateline). That will be a daunting task.

 

[bbgg]

<snipped for focus>

It's been posted that the Dateline special on Friday aired an interview with a hairdresser who cut BK's hair in July, so we can place BK in the area as early as sometime in July.

ETA that hairdresser was in Pullman/Moscow area.

AFAIK July 8 was the date of the first hair appointment from what I've seen

 

[cottonweaver]

Great question! I have no idea what samples they normally take during an autopsy. I would guess both. JMO

Link shows a photo of him: hair on top looks like 2 inches maybe a little more cause its curly, shorter on the sides.

What is visual-snow syndrome? Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger may have discussed the rare disorder on an old chat forum.

Most people experiencing visual-snow syndrome continuously see tiny, snowlike flecks in their vision — even when their eyes are closed.

news.yahoo.com

Thanks
So they could - if they wanted to - test drug usage over approximately 5 months - back to August 2022 ( not just for the crime period)


eta
meant to add, approx 1cm per month

 

[cottonweaver]

His and 154 others (due to the party reported to have happened the night before as per Dateline). That will be a daunting task.

I recall when Ed Wallace* was asked why LE might have called in HVAC - back in early December - he said wtte of ' that's desperate' ( He meant that forensic bio collection mustn't be going well if they're resorting to taking filters. He didn't believe it could be going that badly or that the perp would be in the full PPE)

* EDWARD W. WALLACE JR.

 

[10ofRods]

At party houses, even when it's chilly, most of the participants are outside the house. At 1122 King Road, there's an ideal place behind the house, off of the kitchen, for people to congregate, but there's also the ample parking area in front of the house.

I doubt that there were ever 150 people inside the house and I would guess that some of the beverages were served near the back deck.

If BK's touch/shed DNA is collected from various places inside the house, I wonder how they'll determine *when* it got there.

 

[Chelly]

He drove by a number of times as listed by the affadavitt. I believe he was smart enough to take note of how many cars where there and most of their social media was open so he could deduce who's car belonged to who (the FB detectives did it ). He drove by the residence multiple times that night, even stopping by in front of it, so he would see how many cars were there. I think he k ew who was there that night before he went in.

Driving by the house several times that night pre-murder, he was also interested in the lighting inside the home. When lights went on, and when they went off, and for how long.
my opinion.

 

[insearchoflight]

“A single source of male dna”

Read the Affidavit (Published 2023)

Here’s how the police say they identified Bryan Kohberger as the suspect in the Idaho college murders.

www.nytimes.com

Does that mean the rest of the sheath was void of any other dna? Only one persons dna on the sheath?

 

[10ofRods]

“A single source of male dna”

Read the Affidavit (Published 2023)

Here’s how the police say they identified Bryan Kohberger as the suspect in the Idaho college murders.

www.nytimes.com

Does that mean the rest of the sheath was void of any other dna? Only one persons dna on the sheath?

It means there was only one source (human) on that object in that test. No other person's DNA was found on the snap of that knife. Just BK's.

At some point, they may test the sheath again (the leather part) but I figure they were trying to avoid destroying any part of this major piece of evidence unless and until the Court directs them to, and in concert with the PD also getting the results from that testing. I'd imagine they will test more on the sheath before trial, if this ever goes to trial.

It feels like the DA/LE have way more evidence than we can even suspect.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Topics I'll be thinking about until we hear more:

1. THE CARS
1.1 He had to know Ethan was over - his very distinctive red jeep was parked up front and he had been watching the house. Why did this not stop him?
1.2. If he was not recording them (not ruling that out) nor stalking them that very weekend (not ruling that out either) it is very likely he did not know Kaylees new car. Why did an unknown car parked up front not stop him? It could have been like someones family visiting?
1.3 Kaylees car was returned. AFAIK, the others were not? It hints that there was no evidence in her new car, while there was evidence in the other car(s) or they did not want to risk giving them back and risking the defence claiming something about the cars that would be hard to disprove otherwise.

2. THE HVAC
The HVAC team was on the scene at the house on Dec the 5th. Now that might be totally irrelevant, as there are tons of reasons for them to be there, but as BK is supposed to have a background in HVAC, this gives me a pause. Was that not his first time in the house?

3. THE BATHROOM
Why does the affidavit (p2) mention the upstairs bathroom and the wall it shares with MMs bedroom? I mean it's not exactly smooth, the way it comes up:
"I later learned there was a dog in the room when Moscow PD officers initially responded. The dog belonged to KG and her ex-boyfriend JD. Ofc Smith the pointed out a small bathroom on the east side of the third floor. The bathroom shared a wall with MM bedroom which was situated on the south-east corner on the third floor. As I entered the bedroom, I could see two females in the single bed in the room."

4. WHEN BK MOVED TO PULLMAN
Per the affidavit (p16), he was already near the house on August 21. When talking of BKs phone being near the house: "All of these occasions, except for one, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days. One of these occasions, on August 21,2022 BKs phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m"
AFAIK, this was before classes even started and he was already either stalking them or at least meeting them.
4.1 This begs to ask, when and where did he became aware of his target? (From all we know, he could be the online ex-bf from 6 years ago of any of them, so the question is, how did the stalking start.).
4.2 And on what date did he actually move there?

5. DEPARTURE
5.1 How did BK know at ~2.40 (or before) that it's time to depart towards Moscow and his victim(s) is waiting at home, not at a party, at a sleepover, having a movie night with roomies, in their rooms with a hookup, on a video call etc? Like did he just take the drive with all the weapon and costume "just in case" it works out? I mean did he even have a burner phone to continue monitoring at least their online activity while his original phone was turned off?
5.2 What triggered him to attack that night? It was not ideal conditions to commit a perfect crime, that's for sure. There were 2 cars up front that could have not been there, for one.

6. THE DRIVE
6.1. What was BK doing with the weird drive to King Road? He did not even take the shortest route (Maps suggest to take the northern road by the airport - maybe avoided it due to cameras? But he was still caught on plenty...).Was he choosing this odd route to fetch something, to see something, to meet someone or to avoid to be seen by the cameras? Or something else entirely? Heck, maybe taking drugs before the "action"?
6.2 And why the circling before onset? Why not sit still and look at the house, makes way more sense somehow. Afraid of car being seen standing somewhere? But now it was seen on more cameras. I mean it's a generic car and with engine off at the night... Did he still have several options of houses to enter and was circling between them? (I personally don't think it's likely, but he could have been stalking more than one household)

BOTTOM LINE
All in all, I am still leaning towards there being a specific motive. IMO, as soon as people heard "a phd student in criminology" they jumped into "serial killer", "well planned", "psychopath", "just wanted to kill". If we could just for a moment ignore what he did in academia and think afresh. Like what would you think with the same evidence had it been told that the prep was a 28 year old male who had previously worked at a pizza place, possibly had a history of drug abuse and other mental illness and had just moved cross-country from his family. He drives to crime scene with his own car, enters the home of 5 young females while a visitor is obviously over, looses the cover of his murder weapon next to a victim, leaves DNA, video and phone evidence and even an eye witness.
Would your first thought still be "serial killer mastermind human hunter very well planned, only killed because he wanted to kill and to commit a perfect crime"? Because mine sure is not.

I think he had a specific motive, was fuelled by rage, acted irrationally that night due to a specific trigger and maybe had been stalking at least one of them via some sort of audio/video recording devices on their car(s) and/or in the HVAC system. I also think the crime scene was more graphic than just stabbing and probably only towards one victim with also possibly a trophy of some sort collected.

All MOO unless linked data.

Excellent post! Do you think they could have been looking for the murder weapon in the H/VAC system?

 

[GRT]

Can't wait to see BK's online history from the morning after the murders, was the "genius" searching for "murders in Moscow, ID" at 8 am, before heading over to check out the scene. ...would not surprise me, lol

I'm guessing that -- plus more of his search history will eventually be released.

Even if he used a VFN to block others from recording his history -- his service provider will have a record of it.

MOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Elly Mae made a good point- was he aware how many people were in that house when he went in there?-
I am guessing he did not know Ethan was there---I think he knew Madison and Kaylee were there, thinking one or both of them were the targets. May not have known Zana was there either. I keep thinking how these young people with their whole lives ahead of them went to sleep that night thinking of what a great day was ahead-- I still have a difficult time wrapping my head around that they are gone-- and so brutally.

Whether or not he recognized the Jeep as Ethan's, he had to have expected at least 4-5 people in the house just based on the number of cars parked there.

Even knowing that a car on site doesn't necessarily mean the driver is on site, he certainly couldn't assume only 1-2 people in the house.

Which is why him entering the house with the intent to rape only, doesn't make sense to me -- the chances of the victim calling for help would be too high IMO.

I think he expected at least a few people and was planning to kill. Maybe he thought he could be quiet enough to not encounter others, but I think he was prepared to do just what he did, kill multiple people.

Also, re the Pi Phi party KG was returning for -- wouldn't we expect that party to be held at the Pi Phi sorority house? Not at King Rd. as it seems some folks are speculating.

I know at least two housemates were Pi Phi members, but I think a party at the house would have been thought of by KG as "a party at the house" and not "a Pi Phi party."

All MOO

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

It means there was only one source (human) on that object in that test. No other person's DNA was found on the snap of that knife. Just BK's.

At some point, they may test the sheath again (the leather part) but I figure they were trying to avoid destroying any part of this major piece of evidence unless and until the Court directs them to, and in concert with the PD also getting the results from that testing. I'd imagine they will test more on the sheath before trial, if this ever goes to trial.

It feels like the DA/LE have way more evidence than we can even suspect.

Actually, that isn’t necessarily the case. There could have been female DNA on the sheath. The affidavit simply stated that there was “a single source of male DNA” on the sheath. I fully suspect that there was DNA from one or more of the female victims found on the sheath.

 

[Speculaytor]

AFAIK July 8 was the date of the first hair appointment from what I've seen

This is a great point as first reports I saw said he arrived in the area sometime in August, but the July appt puts him there in July.

 

[10ofRods]

Whether or not he recognized the Jeep as Ethan's, he had to have expected at least 4-5 people in the house just based on the number of cars parked there.

Even knowing that a car on site doesn't necessarily mean the driver is on site, he certainly couldn't assume only 1-2 people in the house.

Which is why him entering the house with the intent to rape only, doesn't make sense to me -- the chances of the victim calling for help would be too high IMO.

I think he expected at least a few people and was planning to kill. Maybe he thought he could be quiet enough to not encounter others, but I think he was prepared to do just what he did, kill multiple people.

Also, re the Pi Phi party KG was returning for -- wouldn't we expect that party to be held at the Pi Phi sorority house? Not at King Rd. as it seems some folks are speculating.

I know at least two housemates were Pi Phi members, but I think a party at the house would have been thought of by KG as "a party at the house" and not "a Pi Phi party."

All MOO

My understanding is that 1122 King Road hosted a pre-party, which was its speciality, IMO.

So the reported 150 people (whose estimate is that? I can't remember) would have been at 1122 *before* the main party.

On Friday night, there was a party at Pi Phi, and also one at the sorority of MC (Ethan's sister). IMO. Apparently, it's tradition for Veterans Day Weekend at U of ID for the sororities to hold parties on Friday night (often "formals") and the fraternities had parties on Saturday night of that same weekend. Kaylee was in a different sorority than Maddie, so they might not have spent Friday night together, and were using Saturday night to catch up.

 

[GRT]

Excellent post! Do you think they could have been looking for the murder weapon in the H/VAC system?

I am interested in the "dozen" times his phone pinged in the area serviced by the same cell provider that serviced the King st house. The PCA says it was recorded over several months, starting in August. I would expect to see the majority of those pings occurring right before the killings when he likely would have stepped up his stalking.

Did he go to any parties there? That would explain how he knew the house's layout--if he knew it. MOO

Do we know if any of the deceased students attended activities at WSU?

 

[10ofRods]

Actually, that isn’t necessarily the case. There could have been female DNA on the sheath. The affidavit simply stated that there was “a single source of male DNA” on the sheath. I fully suspect that there was DNA from one or more of the female victims found on the sheath.

Single source has a specific meaning in forensic genetics.

I do not believe that the PCA indicates there could have been any other DNA (male or female) on the sheath. They had a single source (one person's genome) and it happens to be male.

IMO as a forensic anthropologist, it has but one meaning in forensic genetic science. If there were other profiles, it would not be "single source," it would be tracing one person's DNA among multiple sources (usually assigned some value - as in how many other complete or incomplete sources might have been in the sample).

In this case, they tested the snap of the sheath and found just one person's DNA.

 

[Boodles]

Post in thread 'ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64'
ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 64

Perfect, thanks for this. Found the text on pp 5-6 in the PCA. He was 2 minutes from 1122 at 3:38am. IMO, he was scoping out the area and getting up his nerve to go do the murders.

“A review of camera footage indicated that a white sedan, hereafter "Suspect Vehicle 1", was observed taveling westbound in the 700 block of Indian Hills Drive in Moscow at approximately 3:26 a.m and westbound on Styner Avenue at Idaho State Highway 95 in Moscow at approximately 3:28 a.m. On this video, it appeared Suspect Vehicle 1 was not displaying a front license plate.”

 

[Pretty Go Pale]

Single source has a specific meaning in forensic genetics.

I do not believe that the PCA indicates there could have been any other DNA (male or female) on the sheath. They had a single source (one person's genome) and it happens to be male.

IMO as a forensic anthropologist, it has but one meaning in forensic genetic science. If there were other profiles, it would not be "single source," it would be tracing one person's DNA among multiple sources (usually assigned some value - as in how many other complete or incomplete sources might have been in the sample).

In this case, they tested the snap of the sheath and found just one person's DNA.

So, you’re confident that no blood from the victims was found on the sheath in the bed where they were stabbed to death? Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

 

[SRWCF]

AFAIK July 8 was the date of the first hair appointment from what I've seen

That is nuts! I was convinced he wasn't in Pullman, WA until the end of August, shortly before the fall semester started.

There is still so much that we do not know!