ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[Mad Hettie]

You had asked about toxicology reports in the last thread (sorry don't know how to bring a post forward yet, still learning)
Found this article this morning. It was in the discovery request.

Bryan Kohberger Files Request Seeking Results of All Drug Tests Conducted During Idaho Murder Investigation

Bryan Kohberger wants all drug tests as well as "types of testing performed in this case, testing procedures, reagents and/or solvents used in testing, comparative analyses performed, and number of experiments performed in each test."

www.insideedition.com

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/011023%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

There is just so much I am learning about the law and our court system through this case. I've been down rabbit holes learning about DNA, cell towers, defense and prosecutorial strategies, and now the possible role of the toxicology reports.

I am just so glad to be tucked into my own little life, sending warmth to the families involved, as I wrap my mind around all of this.

 

[10ofRods]

So, you’re confident that no blood from the victims was found on the sheath in the bed where they were stabbed to death? Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

Not on the snap to the sheath. Unless of course, the forensic lab is completely incompetent, which I do not believe it to be.

The rest of the sheath should be tested. But it could involve destroying part of it, so I do believe that will have to happen closer to trial and with a Judge's permission (it should be minor damage, but a sample of the leather would likely have to be given to the defense's laboratory and a third sample preserved for reference).

Obviously, they would have scanned the sheath for blood using non-destructive tech. But they have not mentioned the findings, so who knows if it had blood - but they would know if they did. Since the blood is likely from victims (if it exists), it's not on the snap and isn't relevant at this point (to the PCA).

I should add that if there is blood on that sheath, my guess is that it has already been tested and is entirely victim blood. And no victim DNA was found on the snap.

 

[jepop]

Actually, that's why the date there kinda intrigues me. Only at Dec the 5th.
Not 1-5 days after the murders, like just regular checking, but three weeks later. I assume they had at least some of the the Elantra videos by then.

On Nov 21th a newspaper reports:
"Investigators are currently seeking surveillance footage from “two areas of interest” around the city of Moscow as they hunt for the knife-wielding assailant who stabbed four University of Idaho students to death inside their off-campus home. Businesses and homes within the geographical areas are being asked to share all outside surveillance video taken between 3am and 6am"

On Nov 26th the PD states:
"Aaron Snell from the Idaho State Police tells TMZ, his department is combing through videos which he suggests could provide clues, but then goes on to say, "What we need people to recognize is that often times what's not in the video might help us just as much as what is."

On Dec 4th an article points out:
"The investigation into the murders of four University of Idaho students is entering a critical stage in its third week, as police are starting to receive forensic testing results from the crime scene, law enforcement experts tell CNN."
and
""Police having no suspects is factually incorrect," Miller said. "Police have had a number of suspects they've looked at, but they have no suspect they're willing to name. You don't name them unless you have a purpose for that. That's not unusual.""

I wonder, was BK already very high on their list by Dec the 5th.

Regarding your last sentence: Yes, according to the PCA. He was in their sights by November 29th when a check on WSU vehicle regos tied his name to a white elantra. On the same day a LEO checking vehicles at the parking lot of BK's residential appartment block identified what turned out to be BK's elantra. The discovery that his car had sported one PA plate at the time of the crime followed immediately...then it was ascertained that his vehicle matched the video of "suspect vehicle 1"....etc.

 

[rescuemom]

Maybe consider this when we wonder how BK might have incapacitated the victims. BK was a boxer. Could he have slugged them first and knocked them out or rendered them helpless? If it was immediately before the deed, it would not develop into a bruise once heart stopped pumping blood. Just a thought

 

[CSIDreamer]

So, you’re confident that no blood from the victims was found on the sheath in the bed where they were stabbed to death? Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

The affidavit states the DNA came from the snap. It doesn't say the sheath in its entirety. JMO

 

[Sjöberg]

Excellent post! Do you think they could have been looking for the murder weapon in the H/VAC system?

Thank you! I'm always scared that if I make them long, then people will be annoyed and scroll over!

I think they could have, yes. While it seems they knew pretty quickly that the murder weapon was brought to the scene by the prep (as in he did not grab it from the house), I don't know if D saw the knife as she saw BK leaving. If she did not, it is reasonable to think the prep could have hidden it in the house to avoid having to leave it somewhere that could be tracked back to him.
They could also have been looking for spying devices. I assume the filters had been checked by then and simple basics covered though, as it was 3 weeks later. But I am not familiar enough with LE work to really guess what and why could have taken place at the 3 week mark - especially what would have needed the HVAC team vs just officers doing it.

 

[CLGM]

4. …
Per the affidavit (p16), … "One of these occasions, on August 21,2022 BKs phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m"

Excellent post!

[snipped by me for focus]

10:34 to 11:35 —what was he doing for an hour?? Was he in his car, on foot? That wasn’t a quick drive by the house. So many questions…

 

[10ofRods]

Maybe consider this when we wonder how BK might have incapacitated the victims. BK was a boxer. Could he have slugged them first and knocked them out or rendered them helpless? If it was immediately before the deed, it would not develop into a bruise once heart stopped pumping blood. Just a thought

I think there would still be immediate capillary evidence, even if heart stopped soon after. I'm sure the autopsies contain tons of information relevant to this crime. I trust the U of Washington forensic pathology team in Spokane to have done an excellent job. But you're right, perhaps no immediately noticeable bruising.

There's been no mention of anyone being stabbed directly in the heart, and if Kaylee's injuries are accurately described by SG, I figure it was at least a couple of minutes between the stabbing and death (possibly 3-5 miinutes).

I think your point about the boxing is an excellent one.

 

[Sjöberg]

I am interested in the "dozen" times his phone pinged in the area serviced by the same cell provider that serviced the King st house. The PCA says it was recorded over several months, starting in August. I would expect to see the majority of those pings occurring right before the killings when he likely would have stepped up his stalking.

There is one detail wrong here. The PCA does not say it started in august. It mentions the stalking incident in late August as it relates to the ticket about a missing seatbelt minutes later - that proves (they shoud have body cam of it) that it was him in his car with his phone. It says nothing about the first time:

Per the affidavit (p16) regarding stalking: "All of these occasions, except for one, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days. One of these occasions, on August 21,2022 BKs phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m"

AFAIK, this was before classes even started and he was already either stalking them (or at least meeting them).

 

[TL4S]

That is nuts! I was convinced he wasn't in Pullman, WA until the end of August, shortly before the fall semester started.

There is still so much that we do not know!

According to the PCA, his phone number was opened on June 23, 2022 in PA, so I guess we can narrow his arrival in WA to the two weeks between 6/23 and 7/8. JMO.

 

[10ofRods]

There is one detail wrong here. The PCA does not say it started in august. It mentions the stalking incident in late August as it relates to the ticket about a missing seatbelt minutes later - that proves (they shoud have body cam of it) that it was him in his car with his phone. It says nothing about the first time:

Per the affidavit (p16) regarding stalking: "All of these occasions, except for one, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days. One of these occasions, on August 21,2022 BKs phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m"

AFAIK, this was before classes even started and he was already either stalking them (or at least meeting them).

Or, perhaps, just getting to know this neighboring campus. That neighborhood is very socially active, and in close proximity to both Greek Life and to the other parts of campus where social life occurs.

Perhaps BK wanted to practice his social skills outside his home campus environment. OR, he had a mental checklist for crimes he thought about committing, and being in "another jurisdiction" than where one's home is located is usually said (in criminal justice studies) to be associated with better outcomes for the criminal (as with Joe DeAngelo). He misjudged the close relationships between Pullman PD and Campus Police and Moscow PD. He was definitely on their list of persons of interest by Nov 29.

We don't know how many different houses he might have cased.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think so.

…

On Nov. 29, Washington State University police searched for white Elantras registered at the university, which led to them discovering Kohberger’s name. The license information and photograph on the university’s database matched Mortensen’s description. The car registered to Kohberger was a white 2015 Elantra.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article271161272.html

Yes and him transferring to PA tags 5 days after the murders must have cemented the red flag also.

 

[Nova]

I think there would still be immediate capillary evidence, even if heart stopped soon after. I'm sure the autopsies contain tons of information relevant to this crime. I trust the U of Washington forensic pathology team in Spokane to have done an excellent job. But you're right, perhaps no immediately noticeable bruising....

(Edited for focus; emphasis added.)

Was the forensic pathology team from UW or is that a typo? I assumed and thought I had read the team was from Washington State, the uni in Pullman. Two different unis, as in most states. (To add to the confusion, WSU is called "Wazzu" for short; I suppose it's a way of sounding out the anagram "WSU".)

It won't surprise you to learn I have a couple of degrees from a different Pac-12 university. My understanding is that the two institutions are as different as, well, Seattle is from Pullman and Spokane.

 

[newredtabby]

Maybe consider this when we wonder how BK might have incapacitated the victims. BK was a boxer. Could he have slugged them first and knocked them out or rendered them helpless? If it was immediately before the deed, it would not develop into a bruise once heart stopped pumping blood. Just a thought

IMO, no. A punch would be a wasted action. The first stab would be more devastating.

 

[10ofRods]

(Edited for focus; emphasis added.)

Was the forensic pathology team from UW or is that a typo? I assumed and thought I had read the team was from Washington State, the uni in Pullman. Two different unis, as in most states. (To add to the confusion, WSU is called "Wazzu" for short; I suppose it's a way of sounding out the anagram "WSU".)

It won't surprise you to learn I have a couple of degrees from a different Pac-12 university. My understanding is that the two institutions are as different as, well, Seattle is from Pullman and Spokane.

The bodies were taken to Spokane for autopsy. It's in all the early MSM reports. Not to Pullman.

WSU does not have a medical school, so I looked very carefully at where the autopsies were done. The medical center in Spokane (to which the bodies were taken) is run by University of Washington Medical School. It is a tertiary care/trauma rated center and has more forensic pathologists with better (top tier) technology available than any count hospital in Pullman.

The autopsies were, of course, officially conducted by a public, Medical Examiners office (under their auspices). Spokane would have had many more resources available for 4 such important autopsies, IMO. University of Washington's medical school is top tier.

More can be found on this MSM article announcing the autopsies had taken place. In Spokane.

I too have degrees from a Pac-12 university and friends who went to med school at U of Washington. I also have a good friend in Spokane who is a hospital administrator. Spokane is not Seattle, but Seattle is just a phone call away. I myself receive healthcare from a Pac-12 university medical school system, but it is miles away from where I live - they have satellite offices.

WSU and U of W both appear to have "branches" in Spokane - but I have assumed (perhaps wrongly) that the University of Washington (being higher ranked in terms of overall technology and so forth) is the one that would be called in for further forensic work by the ME. Forensic geneticists and anthropologists at the University of Washington are world class. IMO.

 

[Sundog]

Thanks
So they could - if they wanted to - test drug usage over approximately 5 months - back to August 2022 ( not just for the crime period)


eta
meant to add, approx 1cm per month

If they have a sample of his hair from before he was arrested.

 

[Gemmie]

The search warrants are supposed to be public March 1, I think.

That is correct.

A Whitman County judge ordered the seal until March 1, court documents show.

"Weighed against the public interest in the open administration of justice, compelling circumstances warrant the temporary sealing ordered in this manner," Whitman County Superior Court Judge Gary Libey wrote in two nearly identical Dec. 30 orders, for warrant Nos. 12-29-2022A and B.

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger search warrants sealed to prevent 'serious and imminent threat,' court docs

Washington search warrants served after Bryan Kohberger's arrest were sealed for two months in the Idaho murders, but the judge said they may come out sooner.

www.yahoo.com

 

[r3d-ros3]

4. WHEN BK MOVED TO PULLMAN
Per the affidavit (p16), he was already near the house on August 21. When talking of BKs phone being near the house: "All of these occasions, except for one, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days. One of these occasions, on August 21,2022 BKs phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m"
AFAIK, this was before classes even started and he was already either stalking them or at least meeting them.
4.1 This begs to ask, when and where did he became aware of his target? (From all we know, he could be the online ex-bf from 6 years ago of any of them, so the question is, how did the stalking start.).
4.2 And on what date did he actually move there?

First, thanks for your thoughtful post and good questions. To me, points 4-4.2 are absolutely crucial -- I have such a hard time imagining BK moving to Pullman and so quickly zeroing in on King road. If he did arrive early, in June or July, and had a period of broader surveillance, that would be interesting to me. If not, and the visits so clearly began almost as soon as he arrived in the area, this certainly changes things (and as you say, digital forensics will be critical in figuring out the connection to the victim(s) if this is the case).

 

[whiterhino]

Which of the roommates was living at the house back in August?

Was BK really sitting outside the house back in August, using the wifi at 1122? Did he hack into their wifi? What else?! It wouldn't surprise me to learn that BK had entered the home before and snuck around. Wonder if LE have gone through BKs devices.

Something else I've been wondering, BK was inside the house for less than 30 minutes the night of the murders. Would the 4 roommates have been deceased by the time he left? It might have only taken him 20 minutes to stab 4 people but that doesn't mean he killed 4 people in 20 minutes. IMO.

 

[Nova]

On the previous thread, jepop posted the following to me:

"But what about DMs sworn statement to police, her witness statement, which I am assuming was extracted from in some form to be included in the PCA. Not just something that she casually said to an officer, but a witness statement, taken down at the station, signed and witnessed, say on November 13th sometime. Genuine question, as in what do you think? Would that be included in the exceptions? Another poster here seemed to think so if I read them right." ....

(Edited for focus. The original post is full of interesting comments and questions and I would link to it if I knew how.)

Thank you for your courtesy. I assume all your questions are genuine; you and I are just trying to figure out what the experts are saying about legal subtleties.

I'll try to ask my lawyer/friend, since I happen to have an expert on speed dial. As I mentioned in that earlier thread, she is a federal appeals public defender for juveniles, so the use of responses given to police interviews should be right up her alley.

I assume a witness statement could be used to impeach DM if she says something different on the stand or in a deposition. But if she never testifies under oath, I'm not sure what she told police can be used at all by the DA in the actual trial.