ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[Boxer]

Lots of reasons to meet up with others. Gamers for example. Here's a link for an Airsoft (kind of like paintball) meetup in Moscow. https://disboard.org/server/991591139796852796

Not saying this happened, but it's a possibility.

All those connections are very easily established. Discord, texts other SM.

 

[acutename]

Thank you. I’d only read that he went through the drive thru and assumed he ordered coffee, never saw any statement that he didn’t.

maybe they were out of oat milk

 

[Sjöberg]

It says it's "router can only store up to 200 Kb of log information. Once it reaches this limit, the older logs will be replaced by new entries"

After someone asked what SG was talking about when he said that BK's phone "touched" their wifi" I myself posted the proposition that routers do, or at least could be set to, log that data. After I posted that, someone asked me if I know of any routers that actually do this.

That led me on a mission of discovery. First, I checked all my own router logs. They definitely record any attempts to log in, but there is nothing about all the phones that pass within range but never try. Then I set about trying to find if there is a setting to enable such a thing. There is not. Then I started searching the internet for information on the subject. I was never able to find any model of consumer modem/router that has that capability.

I think that's not consumer data, but, how to put it, FBI-revealable data. Meaning it's not something to see with a few clicks, but also this data does not just evaporate. But I could be wholeheartedly wrong, it's not my area of expertise. I've just seen several people explaining that that's what happened with complicated words I did not bother to google, I must admit.

 

[eloquence]

But how does SG know about this? Who told him? LE has a gag order.

I know SG has picked up stuff from SM then repeated it as fact, so I'm little skeptical.

This isn't in the PCA

How would SG have access to the router? Did he own it?

The LE gag order is very recent. SG was leaking information early on and they cut it off at some point, but LE may have mentioned it as one of the things they are looking at while they were still giving him information

 

[layer]

I'm not sure an ordinary citizen can do it, frankly.

The topic would be "beacon scanning," I believe. Consumer features in routers are not the same, IME, as FBI investigations into what a router actually "knows."

Also, keep in mind that FBI/LE has the other component of this equation in its grasp (BK's actual phone records). I have no clue what his phone might be or what it stores. Just that I believe SG.

I do know that there's technical software available to make sense of who has 'touched' a beacon frame (it looks like it takes about 3 book chapters to explain it);

Beacon frames, 802.11 devices, and Kismet

Scott Reeves follows up on his introduction to the Kismet network monitor to examine how it uses beacon frames to detect devices on a 802.11 network.

www.techrepublic.com

I know you're done with this topic, but I just wanted to follow up on this.
The link you provide here is information about a specific piece of software - Kismet, which ironically I did come across in my mission of discovery.

Kismet is a system that must be installed by the end user and actively in use at the time these activities occurred in order to do these things. It is not a consumer device, it is not available to be installed on a consumer router, it must be installed on a linux/unix network server. There is a similar application that can be run on a windows network server.

And perhaps unsurprisingly, there are a fair number of people concerned with the privacy aspects of any commercial networks that might utilize it.

That leaves your second suggestion - BK's phone records. While all my research turned up zilch on routers logging this info, I didn't even try to see if cell phones record it. That was my logical conclusion - that either the "touching" was logged on BK's phone or by his provider (which I believe is in Pennsylvania).

The only other possibility is that SG was just confused as I have never heard a peep about it from anyone else. That seems like a viable proposition, but when I watched him saying it, several times, it just didn't seem like he was confused at all.

So I'm left just to scratch my head on the whole thing. Which is why I said I'm not convinced that it can be tracked.

But I'm open to being convinced!

 

[10ofRods]

But how does SG know about this? Who told him? LE has a gag order.

I know SG has picked up stuff from SM then repeated it as fact, so I'm little skeptical.

This isn't in the PCA

How would SG have access to the router? Did he own it?

He said it before the gag order and he does not have to obey the gag order himself. In theory, no more LE should be communicating with him and SG has not gone to court to challenge that.

But I'm pretty sure the FBI had information on the digital footprint of BK from Nov 29 onward and certainly before the gag order. Up until then, SG certainly heard from LE and seemed to settle down and be happy with the communication.

No one is claiming SG had access to the router.

What is being claimed though, is that the FBI used its Stingray system and its other spyware systems (including Pegasus) to rework the case. IME, the FBI can do magic with what's available from various digital data.

And again, you can mistrust SG all you like. I am not there yet. He has so much at stake, and he's not stupid.

 

[10ofRods]

I know you're done with this topic, but I just wanted to follow up on this.
The link you provide here is information about a specific piece of software - Kismet, which ironically I did come across in my mission of discovery.

Kismet is a system that must be installed by the end user and actively in use at the time these activities occurred in order to do these things. It is not a consumer device, it is not available to be installed on a consumer router, it must be installed on a linux/unix network server. There is a similar application that can be run on a windows network server.

And perhaps unsurprisingly, there are a fair number of people concerned with the privacy aspects of any commercial networks that might utilize it.

That leaves your second suggestion - BK's phone records. While all my research turned up zilch on routers logging this info, I didn't even try to see if cell phones record it. That was my logical conclusion - that either the "touching" was logged on BK's phone or by his provider (which I believe is in Pennsylvania).

The only other possibility is that SG was just confused as I have never heard a peep about it from anyone else. That seems like a viable proposition, but when I watched him saying it, several times, it just didn't seem like he was confused at all.

So I'm left just to scratch my head on the whole thing. Which is why I said I'm not convinced that it can be tracked.

But I'm open to being convinced!

Yep, which is why I just posted about the FBI. They're not using Kismet. They're using Pegasus and Stingray. I believe they brought in Stingray by around November 16-17th (I'm being moderately optimistic, it could have been sooner or a bit later). OldCop mentioned the geofencing aspect of it early on (which dovetails with the area that the public was instructed to scrutinize).

I'm not going to explain Stingray or Pegasus and I don't think anyone who isn't an FBI expert knows all the capabilities, nor are they completely available to the public. My own experience with the FBI tells me that it's rare for one FBI agent to know everything about their particular corner of investigation - the information is very carefully channeled and often, one agent is surprised by what another agent has learned on a particular project. Criminal investigation is pretty amazing at the level the FBI conducts it. My main FBI contact has now retired, but I do think about trying to get him to enlighten me about this case (but I think he wants a big break from crime, and more family time).

 

[303gmf]

June, wasn't it?

In the college town I live in (25 thousand students)
Almost all leases begin either June 1 or August 1
Rare to see any other dates unless it’s a sublease
He certainly could have signed a June 1 lease start and not moved in immediately
Since this was WSU owned apartments they may be more flexible

 

[renegawlt]

I would want to know the dates and times for each of the 12 times his phone was in the Moscow neighborhood but I think the most significant incidence might be the one that occurred during daytime as that could be when he gained knowledge on the accesses to the house, condition and effectiveness of locks as well as the interior layout. The presumption would be the house was empty at the time which probably makes it a weekday and possibly one where something specific was occurring on the Idaho campus. Entirely speculative but may be related in detail when the search warrant information is publicized.

The daytime instance of his cell phone pinging is the morning of the murders, around 9 a.m. when he did a drive-by to see why the story wasn't on the news yet (imho). If it's not in the PCA, it's in something else. Basically, ALL pings were at night/early morning until after the murders.

 

[layer]

Yep, which is why I just posted about the FBI. They're not using Kismet. They're using Pegasus and Stingray. I believe they brought in Stingray by around November 16-17th (I'm being moderately optimistic, it could have been sooner or a bit later). OldCop mentioned the geofencing aspect of it early on (which dovetails with the area that the public was instructed to scrutinize).

I'm not going to explain Stingray or Pegasus and I don't think anyone who isn't an FBI expert knows all the capabilities, nor are they completely available to the public. My own experience with the FBI tells me that it's rare for one FBI agent to know everything about their particular corner of investigation - the information is very carefully channeled and often, one agent is surprised by what another agent has learned on a particular project. Criminal investigation is pretty amazing at the level the FBI conducts it. My main FBI contact has now retired, but I do think about trying to get him to enlighten me about this case (but I think he wants a big break from crime, and more family time).

OldCop is a friend of mine. He may not say the same.

Whatever SG learned regarding this, and whether or not it is even accurate, I am confident of one thing. He did not learn it from the FBI. Those people are the complete opposite of the coroner. Wild horses couldn't drag inside iinformation out of them.

 

[Megnut]

There is one detail wrong here. The PCA does not say it started in august. It mentions the stalking incident in late August as it relates to the ticket about a missing seatbelt minutes later - that proves (they shoud have body cam of it) that it was him in his car with his phone. It says nothing about the first time:

Per the affidavit (p16) regarding stalking: "All of these occasions, except for one, occurred in the late evening and early morning hours of their respective days. One of these occasions, on August 21,2022 BKs phone utilized cellular resources providing coverage to the King Road Residence from approximately 10:34 p.m. to 11:35 p.m"

AFAIK, this was before classes even started and he was already either stalking them (or at least meeting them).

Aug 21... what was happening at 1122 that day at that hour? Party? Did he invite himself in? Recon? Did he approach the house but never enter? Did he hug the shadows? Had he been in the house prior to the night of the murders? Did he hone his stealth? You'd be surprised by the living room step...

He seemed emboldened. Suggests he may have had dry runs.

JMO

 

[24Brix]

Also, I thought I read somewhere on this case that they could use "arc" technology to determine positioning among an arc from a cell tower.

As a sit in my living room, I will ping off numerous different towers. Same location, four different tower pings.

RSBM.

Yes. IMO, our phones are frequently exchanging handshakes with cell towers to negotiate data transmissions on the network. The carrier’s algorithms take into account signal strength, network capacity and loading, backlog, and any number of other factors to optimize data communications on the network for a given device. If a device is in motion, traveling in a car going 65mph down a highway, for example, those handshakes will frequently result in the use of different towers for obvious reasons. But it can even happen when a device is relatively still or inside a residence for many reasons — moving from one end or floor of a house to another, where signal attenuation occurs due to the number of obstructions (walls, fireplaces, sheet metal, interfering devices, etc.) between the tower and the device, or an increase or decrease in bandwidth demand occurs, for just two examples.

IMO, these handshakes occur between the device and all towers within “earshot”. These handshakes are also time stamped. So a radius can be calculated with very good accuracy that indicates the distance between the device and the tower. So…f only a single tower is within range, the device could be anywhere on the circle defined by that radius. If two towers are within range the device would be at one of the two points where those circles overlap. Three or more towers in range will give an excellent indication of exactly where that device was located at that point in time.

This sort of data was instrumental in convicting Patrick Frazee of the murder of Kelsey Berreth. I suspect it will be instrumental here as well. LE is not going to lay out this degree of detail in the PCA. They’re just going to give the bottom line — they have evidence that his phone was near 1122 King at critical dates and times.

Again, all of the above is MOO.

ETA: Lost quotes.

 

[SkylarSid]

Phones don't ping wifi connections. LE can track cell tower pings through providers, with a warrant. Check your router log and see if it records cell phones that never connected. I know of no consumer routers that do this.

I believe it is the server who detects the pings. It is one of the levels of the SDI layers.

 

[gliving]

Stingray acts like a cell tower and forces cell signals to connect to it instead of the cell tower. Pegasus is phone spyware that can harvest all the data off of your cell phone and send it back to whoever is spying on you.

However, according to the affidavit, BK's phone didn't connect to a Moscow cell tower after Nov 14.

 

[whirrledpeas]

He said it before the gag order and he does not have to obey the gag order himself. In theory, no more LE should be communicating with him and SG has not gone to court to challenge that.

But I'm pretty sure the FBI had information on the digital footprint of BK from Nov 29 onward and certainly before the gag order. Up until then, SG certainly heard from LE and seemed to settle down and be happy with the communication.

No one is claiming SG had access to the router.

What is being claimed though, is that the FBI used its Stingray system and its other spyware systems (including Pegasus) to rework the case. IME, the FBI can do magic with what's available from various digital data.

And again, you can mistrust SG all you like. I am not there yet. He has so much at stake, and he's not stupid.

I’ll chime in to add that the FBI has a CAST team that uses some novel, but interesting, methods regarding historical cell data, but the courts can’t decide how reliable they are because no one that isn’t in the FBI can seem to explain how it works to the layman.

Here’s a good article on it: Here's the FBI's Internal Guide for Getting Data from AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon

 

[Megnut]

If he had watched the house previously -- and wasn't watching the house when K and M were awake, using their phones -- he may have felt confident that M had the entire top floor to herself.

In the months prior, how often was X awake at 4am, collecting door dash? Seems safe to assume everyone would be asleep at 4 am.

Sneak in, slither to the third floor, eliminate the singular target in virtual silence, slink downstairs, disappear into the darkness.

I don't think he factored for K and Murphy. Nor X, and by extension, E. Sloppy.

As he ignored DM and her door and BF and her floor, I think he would have spared X and E too. Therefore I think he must have encountered X outside her room or in her doorway, with deadly consequence.

JMO

 

[whirrledpeas]

Wondering if someone can help me. After watching 20/20 and Dateline, I’m a little unsure of something.

Did the gas station surveillance video lead to LE looking for the Hyundai or the other way around? IIRC I remember the call for 11-13 Hyundais before the surveillance footage came out but one of the above documentaries implies that the footage was the catalyst.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Megnut]

Could he have entered the house twice that night?

While everyone was asleep. 3 o'clock hour. On foot. Reached his target, was confronted in some capacity by K, commit murders 1 and 2 without notice from the floors below and exited. Had his car parked at a distance. At which point he realized he'd left the sheath behind.

Hence the circling, risking re-entry. And it was his search for the sheath that Murphy, DM and X heard, ending in two additional murders.

Might account for the lost minutes.

JMO

 

[Ceska]

We can pick up secured ones too. Connecting to a secured wifi connection requires a password to log on, but both secured and unsecured networks require users to log on. Having said that, AFAIK no one has ever said that BK's phone connected to the wifi at 1122 King Road.

Actually, Kaylee's father mentions it (BK's phone), in this video, "close enough that it was touching their wifi".

 

[eag]

Hello!
Question for attorneys: If through several conversations with defense attorney BK were to confess (or it would become clear that he did commit the alleged crimes), what responsibility does she have to defend her client? Can she choose to recluse herself from the case? Has that ever occurred before? Can you explain it like I’m 7 years old? Thanks