ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[jepop]

Thank you I only brought it up because I still think possible a service industry connection from where one of the girls worked.

Hypothetical: even if BK had 1, 2, 3 or 4 brief interactions with one of the victims and them asking "how are you doing today?" and him saying "tired, studying too hard" and her quipping back "well, that's too bad. Hopefully you get more sleep and get some rest!" (which is something I might say to a customer to develop a rapport) - in his mind he thinks she deeply cares about him and his well being (or something like that).

Then he gets creepy/awkward by 3rd or 4th interaction and she "rejects" him by being aloof, unfriendly and disengaged... could be enough for him to feel jilted. Then he stews on it, obsesses, resents, blame her for everything wrong in his life as things come to a head, etc. etc. etc. JMO, MOO

Could have been, we know BK was in the area of Moscow at least 12 times (IIRC) between June 2022 and DEc 23rd 2022, per PCA ping data. There's nothing to suggest that right now, but based on available facts it's not totally improbable IMO.MOO

 

[whiterhino]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

... who knows what BK was thinking about any of the female victims if he was stalking and/or infatuated with even one of them.

I had a stalker when I was 21. Same personality type as BK (loner, socially awkward with women type, nervy) from what we've heard of BK. I served my stalker at a pub maybe 3 times only, it was an impersonal but friendly (because I was a server and like that with everyone) interaction. He asked me out, I said I was seeing someone (but I wasn't). He followed me home from work and followed my roommate and her boyfriend around too. It went on... He told his coworkers I was his girlfriend, I was stressing him out and that's why he was fired! Police were involved and I got a peace bond (in Canada).

I know we're not allowed to get personal on here but my point is - it was unbelievable my stalker had concocted this story that we were in a relationship! I think he thought that was his reality. No idea, but no one really knows what people like BK are thinking, believing and living in their reality. It's quite frightening! JMO, MOO

Experiencing stalking is one of the MOST terrifying things IME & IMO. Here's a link to an article about stalking:

The 5 Types of Stalkers (and How to Stay Safe) | The Mental Health Blog

We review the 5 types of stalkers, common mental illnesses among stalkers, and how to stay safe from their destructive behavior.

www.thementalhealthblog.com

Personally I think BK is a mix of Predatory, Resentful and Incompetent.

Why did he make so many mistakes? It seems as if BK spent more time on the "attack" and much less time planning the before and after.

Why do they always buy cleaning supplies after the fact?!

 

[HawkFan]

Something I’m curious about - and I apologize if this has already been discussed as I haven’t been able to keep up - threads are flying - but the PCA mentioned another security cam picking up a whimper or a cry and then a loud thud. I can’t see penetrating someone with a knife resulting in a loud thud, but none of the victims had blunt force trauma - that we’ve heard of, anyways. Thoughts on the loud thud?

IMO - X hitting the floor after she was stabbed to death.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Experiencing stalking is one of the MOST terrifying things IME & IMO. Here's a link to an article about stalking:

The 5 Types of Stalkers (and How to Stay Safe) | The Mental Health Blog

We review the 5 types of stalkers, common mental illnesses among stalkers, and how to stay safe from their destructive behavior.

www.thementalhealthblog.com

Personally I think BK is a mix of Predatory, Resentful and Incompetent.

Why did he make so many mistakes? It seems as if BK spent more time on the "attack" and much less time planning the before and after.

Why do they always buy cleaning supplies after the fact?!

I'll check out that link. They buy cleaning supplies and apparently go to eat! That was discussed many threads back I remember... to check restaurant/drive thru, food/gas station videos as killers seem exhausted and hungry after!

I don't think LE has confirmed BK stopped for food (I'm tired and can't remember) but he did go to that grocer. Curious what he did buy.

 

[WildWest]

Thank you I only brought it up because I still think possible a service industry connection from where one of the girls worked.

Hypothetical: even if BK had 1, 2, 3 or 4 brief interactions with one of the victims and them asking "how are you doing today?" and him saying "tired, studying too hard" and her quipping back "well, that's too bad. Hopefully you get more sleep and get some rest!" (which is something I might say to a customer to develop a rapport) - in his mind he thinks she deeply cares about him and his well being (or something like that).

Then he gets creepy/awkward by 3rd or 4th interaction and she "rejects" him by being aloof, unfriendly and disengaged... could be enough for him to feel jilted. Then he stews on it, obsesses, resents, blame her for everything wrong in his life as things come to a head, etc. etc. etc. JMO, MOO

I wonder the same! Knew a guy in jr high, ran into him years later and I was nice but years later he told a mutual friend I stranded him. Even though I told him I was going to a school conference. Anyway it seems he read me being kind to him despite his dungens and dragons goth black trench coat as I liked him. Nope. I was just saying hello the fastest I could after getting my slurpee at 7-11 where he was waiting to catch a bus and I had to hurry to my event. I really do wonder if this was BK's fascination, just like what you & I described...

 

[jepop]

I'll check out that link. They buy cleaning supplies and apparently go to eat! That was discussed many threads back I remember... to check restaurant/drive thru, food/gas station videos as killers seem exhausted and hungry after!

I don't think LE has confirmed BK stopped for food (I'm tired and can't remember) but he did go to that grocer. Curious what he did buy.

Someone here suggested the makings for a vegan sandwhich ;-) ( I'm sure, as a bit of light relief interspersed when sleuthing these terrible murders). MOO

ETA sandwich

 

[AussieIan]

IMO - X hitting the floor after she was stabbed to death.

I thought perhaps if X was still up and about the house she was standing when BK attacked her, the room is dark, Ethan hears the commotion and rolls over or says something and makes BK aware of his presence now BK immediately prioritises the bigger threat and flings X against the wall. With adrenaline and momentum would definitely make a thump. After killing Ethan X who is seriously injured perhaps can't scream is crying and that's when BK is heard saying he will help (get rid of the pain).

 

[jepop]

If they know the exact time that he checked out at Albertson's, they can match the register tape to the time and see exactly what he bought, even if he paid with cash.

And I bet LE and the FBI have done just that!MOO

 

[whiterhino]

I'll check out that link. They buy cleaning supplies and apparently go to eat! That was discussed many threads back I remember... to check restaurant/drive thru, food/gas station videos as killers seem exhausted and hungry after!

I don't think LE has confirmed BK stopped for food (I'm tired and can't remember) but he did go to that grocer. Curious what he did buy.

I imagine the energy spent from something like that would make a person ravenous. Good thing the drive home was only about 30 minutes

The thing about buying "supplies" after the fact is, it's still incriminating. Doesn't really matter if it was before or after. Guilty is as guilty does. I'm guessing the more "seasoned" murderers are the ones who are prepared and have what they need ahead of time.

 

[HawkFan]

Thank you I only brought it up because I still think possible a service industry connection from where one of the girls worked.

Hypothetical: even if BK had 1, 2, 3 or 4 brief interactions with one of the victims and them asking "how are you doing today?" and him saying "tired, studying too hard" and her quipping back "well, that's too bad. Hopefully you get more sleep and get some rest!" (which is something I might say to a customer to develop a rapport) - in his mind he thinks she deeply cares about him and his well being (or something like that).

Then he gets creepy/awkward by 3rd or 4th interaction and she "rejects" him by being aloof, unfriendly and disengaged... could be enough for him to feel jilted. Then he stews on it, obsesses, resents, blame her for everything wrong in his life as things come to a head, etc. etc. etc. JMO, MOO

IMO - as you mentioned above, I believe BK initially met M and X at the Mad Greek in June or July of 2022 after he moved to attend WSU. He more than likely Googled “Vegan Restaurants in Moscow, ID“ and the Mad Greek popped right up with good ratings. He probably ate there a few times and took a liking to M or X or both. BK then started doing some “social media research“ on them and quickly found out where they lived and also learned of their other roommates in the process.

He may have been “rejected” by one or both of the girls (as you also mentioned above) and started stalking them. He became obsessed and would drive by the house to try to see when they were home and get a feel for their “comings and goings“. This lead to him finally deciding to “experience“ what he had been studying and researching for all those months prior. BK left his apartment in Pullman, turned off his phone and was “committed“ to doing the crime in those early morning hours of 11/13. JMO.

 

[seasideForest]

IMO, there’s more to the story. Think of personal reasons: money, love, greed, sex, jealousy, broken heart etc. It’s been said all along that the killing was personal and that the killer was someone who was really angry. I’m guessing that the killer was pissed at X, killed E, K and M out of spite. I also think that BK knew X and possibly her sis. It was no coincidence that he ended up at WSU where Xs sis just happens to attend? I think BK may have had a previous online “ relationship”, “infatuation” with X - and she broke it off having been influenced and motivated by M and K because it was likely an unhealthy relationship.

RSBM for focus
Also respectfully: has there been information I've missed that leads you to suppose this very strongly? Or is it just a theory you're throwing out there?

I'm just asking because in at least one of the early interviews with X's dad, he mentions she'd never had a boyfriend till E. She'd been so studious till then, didn't have time for a bf and then suddenly she had E and how that all changed her etc. Of course parents don't know everything about even their teens never mind their young adult kids who are living at college, so there could have been little things going on - flings and non-serious relationships her family never heard of.

I can't find the interview so far today so I'll just write MOO JMO.

Edited for typo.

 

[I'm Nobody]

I am not sure the killer was "really angry." Everything I know about him points in a different direction.

The personal reasons are interesting, though. Jealousy would be my top pick. But where's the category for "loner who doesn't fit in and has no ability to take in external criticism"?

I'm guessing he was pissed at no one in the house, but acting out of (increasingly) bizarre internal motivations that most of us cannot fathom.

Victimology is an interesting separate topic. I also think it's not at all strange that siblings would go to Pullman and Moscow, but I find it highly improbable that both knew BK. No evidence of that whatsoever. WSU is a very large school.

Is there a reason your mind goes to a scenario that has no evidence?

LE hints that there was no specific individual target. WHat's your evidence that BK ever felt love?

Thank you 10ofRods. Your posts don't cheer me up but I truly enjoy them. They make me think about things in new ways.

The following is my opinion only.
See I believe the killer was pissed, royally pissed, at not being able to date the girls he wanted or be in with that group of fun, cool kids, probably most of his life. He most likely tried everything as the years passed, lost all that weight using the heroin weight loss program sold to him by his corner pusher. That worked but nothing else. Fast forward a decade or more, he now loathed those pretty girl types who once upon a time bullied him and now still reject him. He may have begun having thoughts about hurting those mean girls as they had hurt him. And maybe those thoughts gave him pleasure for a while/calmed him down but damn those thoughts would return and get more frequent and the things that quieted the thoughts in the past -- reading about crime, watching films, studying bad/the worst of men -- just didn't work any longer. There was a Reddit survey attributed to BK (verify-this link below) asking criminals to share their thoughts before during after their crimes. Was BK seeking to learn how others got rid of those pesky thoughts he was finding more and more difficult to control? ESCALATION. REVENGE. THOUGHTS

Evil? How why when? Seems different strokes for each evil. My take is a split second at an early age wires get crossed, brain maps rewritten/redirected. Pain (real or imagined) and pleasure get mixed up. If it's so hard for us to figure out, imagine what it must be like for the person it's happening to. Sorry I'm not sure its possible to cognitive therapy evils. MOO

Interesting general serial killer profile from the Office of Justice Programs listed below. (My ? Can a killer fit all 4 types?)

• Visionary type attributes his crimes to visions or voices directing the killing. ???THOUGHTS?
• Mission-oriented killer sees his goal as eliminating an identifiable group, such as prostitutes or young women.
• Hedonistic type kills for the pleasure derived from the act of killing.
• Power/control-oriented type derives gratification from exerting control over a helpless victim.

" general profile of serial killers indicates they are generally white males from 25 to 34 years old. They are charismatic, intelligent, and mobile. They generally kill in ways that involve contact with the victim. Initially their killings may be elaborately planned, but later they kill more in panic or frenzy."

Profiles in Terror - The Serial Murderer | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

Yes, Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger did post on Reddit asking for help researching why people commit crimes

As a student, Bryan Kohberger posted to Reddit asking for participation in a survey on why people commit crimes.

www.verifythis.com

 

[HawkFan]

I thought perhaps if X was still up and about the house she was standing when BK attacked her, the room is dark, Ethan hears the commotion and rolls over or says something and makes BK aware of his presence now BK immediately prioritises the bigger threat and flings X against the wall. With adrenaline and momentum would definitely make a thump. After killing Ethan X who is seriously injured perhaps can't scream is crying and that's when BK is heard saying he will help (get rid of the pain).

I agree with what you stated above, that scenario could have easily occurred. Probably more plausible than what I stated.

 

[whiterhino]

Thank you 10ofRods. Your posts don't cheer me up but I truly enjoy them. They make me think about things in new ways.

The following is my opinion only.
See I believe the killer was pissed, royally pissed, at not being able to date the girls he wanted or be in with that group of fun, cool kids, probably most of his life. He most likely tried everything as the years passed, lost all that weight using the heroin weight loss program sold to him by his corner pusher. That worked but nothing else. Fast forward a decade or more, he now loathed those pretty girl types who once upon a time bullied him and now still reject him. He may have begun having thoughts about hurting those mean girls as they had hurt him. And maybe those thoughts gave him pleasure for a while/calmed him down but damn those thoughts would return and get more frequent and the things that quieted the thoughts in the past -- reading about crime, watching films, studying bad/the worst of men -- just didn't work any longer. There was a Reddit survey attributed to BK (verify-this link below) asking criminals to share their thoughts before during after their crimes. Was BK seeking to learn how others got rid of those pesky thoughts he was finding more and more difficult to control? ESCALATION. REVENGE. THOUGHTS

Evil? How why when? Seems different strokes for each evil. My take is a split second at an early age wires get crossed, brain maps rewritten/redirected. Pain (real or imagined) and pleasure get mixed up. If it's so hard for us to figure out, imagine what it must be like for the person it's happening to. Sorry I'm not sure its possible to cognitive therapy evils. MOO

Interesting general serial killer profile from the Office of Justice Programs listed below. (My ? Can a killer fit all 4 types?)

• Visionary type attributes his crimes to visions or voices directing the killing. ???THOUGHTS?
• Mission-oriented killer sees his goal as eliminating an identifiable group, such as prostitutes or young women.
• Hedonistic type kills for the pleasure derived from the act of killing.
• Power/control-oriented type derives gratification from exerting control over a helpless victim.

" general profile of serial killers indicates they are generally white males from 25 to 34 years old. They are charismatic, intelligent, and mobile. They generally kill in ways that involve contact with the victim. Initially their killings may be elaborately planned, but later they kill more in panic or frenzy."

Profiles in Terror - The Serial Murderer | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

Yes, Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger did post on Reddit asking for help researching why people commit crimes

As a student, Bryan Kohberger posted to Reddit asking for participation in a survey on why people commit crimes.

www.verifythis.com

MOO, mission oriented. Some have mentioned "injustice collector". Nothing about this crime seemed elaborately planned, it definitely appeared more frenzied and he didn't take much time. Yet he had been surveilling them (essentially) so this wasn't random either.

Is it possible that BK had wanted to strike just one of the victims but seeing them together so much, so often he realized he'd never have the chance to get them alone so he went after whoever was there, whoever was in the way? Can't help but think if BK had wanted to target M or K, he could've gone in and out via the balcony.

I had no idea one of the roommates (X) sister also went to WSU

 

[debbiediablo]

RSBM RBBM

I don't usually get chills... But stalking multiple houses at the same time...

What if Xana didn't order her Door Dash? What if BCK did? 2:45 is the latest a DD order can be placed with delivery around 4:00 AM. BCK phone is on at 2:43 and turned off at 2:47. He circles the house three times and on the fourth he spots DD arriving, so he sneaks into the house while Xana is distracted by a Jack in the Box order she didn't place arriving at the north door. MOO https://www.doordash.com/food-delivery/pullman-wa-restaurants/

 

[jepop]

The PCA says BK was spotted on the cameras at Albertsons around 1 am the night/morning of the murders, and that he walked through the store and purchased unknown items.

By watching on survelliance cameras, I'm surprised they can't figure out -- with a good deal of certainty -- just what he bought in the store that night.

Sorry, if this has already been addressed but I think the PCA definately has him at Albertsen's at more like 1pm on Nov 13th (the afternoon after the 4-4.20am murders). IMO.

 

[whiterhino]

What if Xana didn't order her Door Dash? What if BCK did? 2:45 is the latest a DD order can be placed with delivery around 4:00 AM. He circles the house three times and on the fourth he spots DD arriving, so he sneaks into the house while Xana is distracted by a Jack in the Box order she didn't place arriving at the north door. MOO THE 10 BEST FAST FOOD DELIVERY in Pullman 2023 | Order Fast Food Near Me | Uber Eats

IMO we would've heard by now if BK sent the DD order to X. Obviously people are reverse engineering the order but initially if BK HAD sent an order, why/what would make BK send the order to Xana specifically? Not directing the question at anyone, just saying FWIW. Also noting your link is for Uber Eats, not DoorDash.

 

[jepop]

lots of good, interesting comments....

alot of mental illness isn't diagnosed until adulthood....... school is pretty easy for an intelligent person with a mental illness. lots of tests.

but the "real world" isn't like studying and taking tests..... you have to get along with other people. one of the most important IRL skills IMO

i probably know or intimately know of 10-15 people with moderate to serious mental illness issues...... what almost all of them have in common is they are above-average intelligence (not sure about 1 person).... and what all of them have in common is DENIAL and a strong very aversion to being formally diagnosed and to getting meds/counselling to deal with these issues..... paranoia as well. i think they all share that as well.

for a few of them, i think their day-to-day life would instantly improve with meds but zero % chance they would take them, even for 6 weeks to see how it goes............. way off-topic, but i think this is one reason we have so many homeless people. they don't want to take meds (or to follow rules at a homeless shelter or homeless residence)

as per mental illness defense, i think the bar is pretty high on that....... seems like there may be evidence of flight here. and he changed his licence plate

i see people saying BK is pretty dumb criminal.... really?.... seems like Moscow police took a long time to catch him AND they used highly questionable methods (disallowed in some states. and some genealogy companies won't cooperate) to secure their case for arrest.

That's interesting what you say re undiagnosed mental illness. OTOH, re LE using genealogy companies? AFAIK BK's DNA on sheath was matched through collection of the Father's DNA from trash. Did LE have to use some kind method, contract a genalogy comp for that, that might be questionable in other states? There was, IIRC, a fair amount of speculation in the press that genealogy companies had been used/data had been accessed by LE - that a family mmmber had given their DNA on line and LE accessed this, but per PCA, only the Dad's Dna from trash is mentioned. MOO

 

[jepop]

Question: Do you think in any of BCK's 12 other drive-by of the house that occurred late at night that he stopped to see how easy it would be to enter the house, or maybe that he did enter the house to see the layout? Almost like dry runs?

If he was systematically stalking the house, so to speak, (perhaps after deciding to target one or more within it) with a view to commtitting murder, then he might have investigated entry points, if slider unlocked and more, as part of a planning phase. Perhaps we will get more info in the coming months through BK's detailed internet use and phone data (ie apps that might show a more precise location) as his phone was clearly on and pinging during those 12 times mentioned in the PCA. MOO Just to add, on it's own, I don't think the ping data necessarily demonstrates that BK drove by the house- just that his phone was utilising data from cell tower that the victim's residence also utilised. As has been discussed I guess we'll get more detailed triangulation going forward, maybe app location data from BK's phone etc.MOO

 

[debbiediablo]

IMO we would've heard by now if BK sent the DD order to X. Obviously people are reverse engineering the order but initially if BK HAD sent an order, why/what would make BK send the order to Xana specifically? Not directing the question at anyone, just saying FWIW. Also noting your link is for Uber Eats, not DoorDash.

Thanks! I saw the error the moment it went up and tried to correct but the system balked and I couldn't do it fast enough. BCK ordered for Xana because in his surveilling he might have recognized that Xana was the night owl among the roommates, and he wanted to ensure she wasn't in the kitchen when he came in the slider to go upstairs. (I'm pretty much convinced this was his only option to get in.) So he requested delivery at the north door. This is assuming his initial intent was not to kill all four but just Kaylee and Maddie. What bothers me about this is Ethan should've been first; given the right circumstances he might have saved everyone. And his red Jeep was out front. But I don't think BCK had time enough to kill Ethan while Xana was discussing an unordered DD delivery with the driver. Plus I think Dylan would've heard Xana screaming when she found Ethan. MOO