ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[debbiediablo]

This comes from "In Cold, Cold Blood" by Howard Blum from AirMail news. Blum's info here comes from MPD Sgt. Shaine Gunderson who was highest ranking among the first three officers to enter the crime scene:

"It was a quick trip. The roads leading into the university neighborhood that Sunday were as empty as the classrooms. And as soon as Gunderson’s black-and-white cruiser pulled up behind the neat row of cars parked in the driveway of the austere cantilevered house on King Road, he immediately knew something was very wrong.'

"It was the noise: there wasn’t any. Just an eerie, unnatural silence. A cluster of young people, university students presumably, were milling outside the open front door of 1122 like gulls on a beach. And yet they were exceptionally quiet. They weren’t merely subdued. They seemed stunned, as if drained by a deep and intense shock. When the three mystified officers approached the front door, someone in the crowd, it would later be shared, muttered a single, plaintive word: 'Dead.'

"Still, Gunderson would confess to others, he was unprepared for the strong smell of blood that rose up in his nostrils the moment he walked inside."

This interview - firsthand, first on-site account, highly credentialed investigative journalist - flies in the face of all the reports that people were screaming, sobbing, running in terror, fainting. And it segues directly into Dylan's highly similar behavior. All of them were shocked, stunned, traumatized into absolute silence.

MOO

An Exclusive Look Inside the Idaho Murders: Part I

In Part I of his investigation, Howard Blum travels to the quaint town of Moscow and reveals new details about the crime—and the manhunt.

airmail.news

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

... who knows what BK was thinking about any of the female victims if he was stalking and/or infatuated with even one of them.

I had a stalker when I was 21. Same personality type as BK (loner, socially awkward with women type, nervy) from what we've heard of BK. I served my stalker at a pub maybe 3 times only, it was an impersonal but friendly (because I was a server and like that with everyone) interaction. He asked me out, I said I was seeing someone (but I wasn't). He followed me home from work and followed my roommate and her boyfriend around too. It went on... He told his coworkers I was his girlfriend, I was stressing him out and that's why he was fired! Police were involved and I got a peace bond (in Canada).

I know we're not allowed to get personal on here but my point is - it was unbelievable my stalker had concocted this story that we were in a relationship! I think he thought that was his reality. No idea, but no one really knows what people like BK are thinking, believing and living in their reality. It's quite frightening! JMO, MOO

I am very sorry that it happened to you. In their reality these guys are stuck in the phase that many of us might go through in childhood. After all, magical thinking or belief in tooth fairies is normal in childhood, but if they persist in adolescence, it is concerning. Your stalker probably never had a girlfriend or even a friend (to compare his make-believe relationship against the "reality" of a friend dating) so he "invented" the whole relationship around the fact that you were polite and kind. It's the same as someone who says "hi" every morning can be considered a "friend".

 

[gremlin444]

What I find most odd about his circling around the neighborhood some 3-4x, parading in front of various cameras, is that most people who are suddenly seized with an uncontrollable emotion find that the feeling disappears, usually over half an hour. He left home just before 3 am and still hasn't simmered down by 4 am?

This is no ordinary rage event, IMO. He was doing something very high risk for which he seems to have prepared, at least somewhat.

I agree completely that his resolve was to carry out this deed, that morning. He had resolved to do it. For me, this is a kind of cold emotion (resolve; devotion to an abstract high risk plan included).

It's as if it was a personal point of honor or a self-prescribed assignment that he had to carry out, regardless of whether he was caught (which he didn't wish to be, but of course he blew that part of it pretty well).

I agree with the thought that he had it planned for that night, but cold calculation got overwhelmed by frustration that turned to anger as his plans didn't work the way he wanted.

IMHO, I wonder if he kept going by, seeing lights on and signs of activity and began to feel more and more frustrated. The cold planning side starts to worry--the more times he drives by, the more chance of being noticed....the more time goes by and the closer to 6 am the clock creeps, the chance of early birds in the neighborhood getting up to go to work/exercise and seeing him/his car increase...the closer to early morning that he gets back to his apartment, the bigger chance that someone might notice As the worry grows, the frustration with the inhabitants of the house for still being up and messing up what he thinks of as well thought out plans grows. The clock ticks over to 4 a.m., and that anxiety and frustration and anger lead him to throw caution to the wind and just go for it even though he sees signs that Xana is still up. At that point, time and speed are his focus--perhaps leading him to park closer to the house than he had intended because he feels like he needs to be able to make as quick of an entrance and getaway as possible to try to get as close as he can back to his originally planned schedule.

 

[layer]

I'm sorry to keep harping on BK's survey, but it has been driving me nuts. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of these dates, but it looks like he graduated from DeSales in May. That seems normal timing for a college commencement. It was trickier to find the survey date since it's been removed. Screen shots of the survey, shown in articles dated December 30, showed the survey was posted 212 days before December 30th, which is around June 1 - AFTER he graduated. And well before his graduate studies began. I know there was a link for the survey that led to DeSales, so I can be convinced that he really did create the survey earlier than June for his class project, but apparently he didn't have enough data to use it. The creepy issue is that he was still looking for responses to his failed survey after he graduated. He must have wanted that data for personal reasons, IYKWIM.

Not sure if this has already been addressed...
His professor at DeSales, the renowned Katherine Ramsland, said she was aware of his survey. It was for his upcoming PHD work at WSU, and the form of the survey is not as unusual as people think it is. She had a word for that form of survey, I'll try to dig it up.

 

[TooMuchGun]

Not sure if this has already been addressed...
His professor at DeSales, the renowned Katherine Ramsland, said she was aware of his survey. It was for his upcoming PHD work at WSU, and the form of the survey is not as unusual as people think it is. She had a word for that form of survey, I'll try to dig it up.

boilerplate

 

[Ccging]

Not sure if this has already been addressed...
His professor at DeSales, the renowned Katherine Ramsland, said she was aware of his survey. It was for his upcoming PHD work at WSU, and the form of the survey is not as unusual as people think it is. She had a word for that form of survey, I'll try to dig it up.

I’m curious if she has mentioned if any other students put out the same survey or was he the only one?

 

[NuttMegg]

@10ofRods
That's incredible! Actually I believe every word. So many people who have grown up on smart phones and internet won't be able to orient themselves on a map, even one clearly displaying a compass rose.

 

[Erutan]

All 3 of the fraternities/sororities that the deceased were members of (Sigma Chi, Alpha Phi, and Pi Beta Phi) have chapters both in Moscow and Pullman. Is it possible that the chapters went to functions at one anothers houses?

Perhaps BK saw or had an interaction with one of them somehwere in Pullman, got either infatuated or pissed off, followed them home and began stalking them in Moscow?

I saw interviews with students from both universities that said the 2 towns were more like one community since they are so close together, so I would think it is plausible. Then again I know nothing about greek life. I'd say normally you wouldn't have people from different universities partying together but this is different since they are basically right next to one another.

I admit I'm curious as to how BK targeted this specific group of people, and for how long ?
There was talk also about a restaurant when some of them may have worked ?
Imo.

 

[Sjöberg]

What was BK doing over on the 700 block of Indian Hills Drive at 3:26 a.m? It looks like a residential neighborhood.

Picking up an accomplice?

If he not only drove his own car to the crime scene, but also carpooled his accomplice, this is getting ridiculous.
I don't think there ever was an accomplice. But being at 700 Indian Hills Drive is a tad bit odd. My only idea that would somewhat make sense is that he was trying to avoid driving on Hw95. I can see two visible cameras there on the long business/garages house marked as 1500 Levick St. He could have also been just driving and thinking it over or just acting absolutely irrationally.

Did Bryan encounter Kaylee on social media first?

While I don't think it's likely, I must tell a personal anecdote.

There is a group of people I have been "following" online without following-following them for... 10-15 years by now. <modsnip - off topic>

So possible BK had some very remote connections to check their account and it went from there.

 

[want2solveit]

snipped for focus @10ofRods
I hope info like this does not leak to the criminally minded:
"PRINTED ROAD MAPS* commonly include an index of cities and other destinations found on the map; smaller-scale maps often include indexes of streets and other routes..."

If criminals knew they could navigate to and from crime scenes w The Way of The Ancients, printed maps, who knows how many would evade suspicion, detection, prosecution, & conviction. imo
______________________________________
* CAPPED by me.

Road map - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I teach a lab class that has a unit on using maps. It is like pulling teeth. I end up having to project a Google map of our campus in order to show them that maps typically put the orientation as North by default (they don't know this) and that the opposite direction is always South (half of them do not know this). And so on. I point out that the actual size of each building is accurately to scale, so their own maps must be accurate as possible (etc).

We do a campus "scavenger hunt" using a paper map. Oh my. Well, after that assignment everyone realizes that teamwork is important and that the 5-6 excellent map readers should be split up and assigned to different teams.

All that being said, some people just really suck at navigation and others seem naturally gifted in that area. Some people tell me they get lost very easily. Some of my students are still being dropped off at campus by grandma or another family member. If I choose several well known locales near campus and ask them to map them onto a properly oriented map, it's almost impossible for them to do from memory. What's the closest way to get to the beach? They don't know, they would usually just consult Google. How many miles is it to the beach, approximately? Some know, most are wild guesses. If I ask everyone to stand up and face the direction they believe to be South, there will be varied responses, with people guessing who is right and then mimicking that person (who is often wrong). It doesn't help that the local freeway onramp that's closest labels the directions "northbound and southbound" when in fact, right where that offramp is, it's actually East/West traffic for a few miles.

I am thinking BK is not one of the navigationally gifted. I don't think he knew better than to tailgate. I don't think he's spatially aware. Or temporally aware (aware of how many times he made the same mistake in an hour, for example).
[/QUOTE]
With Googlemaps-Street View, you can 'walk' right to a house almost peek in the windows, it feels so real.

 

[maskedwoman]

I teach a lab class that has a unit on using maps. It is like pulling teeth. I end up having to project a Google map of our campus in order to show them that maps typically put the orientation as North by default (they don't know this) and that the opposite direction is always South (half of them do not know this). And so on. I point out that the actual size of each building is accurately to scale, so their own maps must be accurate as possible (etc).

We do a campus "scavenger hunt" using a paper map. Oh my. Well, after that assignment everyone realizes that teamwork is important and that the 5-6 excellent map readers should be split up and assigned to different teams.

All that being said, some people just really suck at navigation and others seem naturally gifted in that area. Some people tell me they get lost very easily. Some of my students are still being dropped off at campus by grandma or another family member. If I choose several well known locales near campus and ask them to map them onto a properly oriented map, it's almost impossible for them to do from memory. What's the closest way to get to the beach? They don't know, they would usually just consult Google. How many miles is it to the beach, approximately? Some know, most are wild guesses. If I ask everyone to stand up and face the direction they believe to be South, there will be varied responses, with people guessing who is right and then mimicking that person (who is often wrong). It doesn't help that the local freeway onramp that's closest labels the directions "northbound and southbound" when in fact, right where that offramp is, it's actually East/West traffic for a few miles.

I am thinking BK is not one of the navigationally gifted. I don't think he knew better than to tailgate. I don't think he's spatially aware. Or temporally aware (aware of how many times he made the same mistake in an hour, for example).

ROFLMAO, I totally get this. And it's everywhere. When I first started teaching my daughter to drive, she couldn't navigate herself anywhere because whenever we drove anywhere, her face had been glued to her phone. And amusement parks have apps that direct you every step to your ride. Or why people on the interstate have their navigation app up on the way to work and home. Because no one can read a map anymore. He might still be lost in rural Idaho without his phone. LOL

 

[10ofRods]

I’m curious if she has mentioned if any other students put out the same survey or was he the only one?

A grad program that allowed a cut and paste master's level survey would certainly not be the strongest.

Prof B said his survey was "typical." but some of us noted some odd things about it.

There are some former prisoners on reddit, but not sure BK knew how to go about finding them. At any rate, he starts his survey too late, doesn't complete it, etc. Prof then excuses him from having to have his own data (!) and helps him write a "narrative" instead, so he can go on to a doctoral program. I'd love to see that Master's thesis.

 

[Sundog]

You can get burner smart phones in my experience. You would just need to set it up with a different Google account

"Burner phones" have come a long way over the last ten years or so. Now they are more commonly referred to as "no contract phones" and most of them are smart phones, but much less expensive plans. We have Samsung Galaxy smart phones from Verizon and pay about $65 a month for the two lines. We've upgraded over the last ten years several times. You register them yourself online, you can use your real name or not, and use your real address or not. And you can pay for monthly minutes using Verizon phone cards if you want.

The only down side for us is that international phone calls are not included, so we use Skype for that, and our phones can receive incoming texts from people in the countries we need to communicate with when not on Skype.


Edited to correct "Samsung"

 

[girlhasnoname]

@10ofRods
That's incredible! Actually I believe every word. So many people who have grown up on smart phones and internet won't be able to orient themselves on a map, even one clearly displaying a compass rose.

Guilty, I can't read a map or find my way out of a paper bag....

 

[Lyanna]

Something I’m curious about - and I apologize if this has already been discussed as I haven’t been able to keep up - threads are flying - but the PCA mentioned another security cam picking up a whimper or a cry and then a loud thud. I can’t see penetrating someone with a knife resulting in a loud thud, but none of the victims had blunt force trauma - that we’ve heard of, anyways. Thoughts on the loud thud?

Xana was found on floor per PCA, maybe the thud was her falling to the ground and/or against her room door and it closing shut after being attacked ? moo, could explain the whimper and the cry also - the audio was picked up on camera approx 50ft away from her room if iirc
Really is awful and heartbreaking to think about

moo

 

[renarde]

Well, yes.

With just this one detail, we see the way his thought processes/personality are pulling him into a certain path. He would have been *much* better off figuring out how to use trails and the wood line to hide his approach to the house (as opposed to driving his car in circles around the neighborhood 4 times, getting got on multiple cameras and then pulling into the actual parking lot of the house - which, even though invisible to cameras - was the only place he could be without reappearing on a camera. again).

So he didn't suss out his trail into the house. The ways in which he could have improved his crime, just around this one issue, are mindblowing to me. He should have left his phone at home. Then, he should have parked any number of places (earlier in the evening) than right outside the house and walked to the house.

But he didn't. So, I think that car is his little personal shell. I don't know how long he has had the car, but it is his portable personal (psychological) armor and he could not manage, somehow, without driving it right up to the murder scene. He didn't think to disguise the lack of a front plate (easily done). He needed that car to keep him less anxious, somehow.

And THEN, he turns his phone back on some 20 minutes later, heading south out of Moscow. Why?? He turns it off as he approaches Moscow, then turns it back on as he leaves after murdering 4 people, which is very suspicious.

Something compelled him to do this crime in this particular way. I almost want to say he did the best he could do, but he couldn't function with that phone and that car. Basically, he was very dependent upon them, they are practically part of him.

He probably should've left that sheath at home. Next to the phone.

<moo>

 

[NuttMegg]

Guilty, I can't read a map or find my way out of a paper bag....

5th grade, other century: the nuns have us mapping all the blocks between school and where we lived, including all the backyard shortcuts. Then, tracing each continent, with all the countries that existed at the time, ie Africa.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not sure if this has already been addressed...
His professor at DeSales, the renowned Katherine Ramsland, said she was aware of his survey. It was for his upcoming PHD work at WSU, and the form of the survey is not as unusual as people think it is. She had a word for that form of survey, I'll try to dig it up.

<snipped & BBM> Link provided by @Cassaday

Perhaps the most interesting report on Kohberger’s time as a criminology student is that in April 2022 he administered a survey to a Reddit forum of convicted criminals. The introduction states: “In particular, this study seeks to understand the story behind your most recent criminal offense, with an emphasis on your thoughts and feelings throughout your experience.” (While the intro also indicates that he’s asking questions under the auspices of DeSales University and that the survey has been approved by its institutional review board, the university has yet to confirm this.)

One of his survey questions asked, “Why did you choose that victim or target over others?” Another reads, “After committing the crime, what were you thinking and feeling?” To understand that these questions were authored by an accused mass murderer is undeniably creepy, but the most unsettling observation this provokes is that Kohberger may have been assessing criminal minds to fulfill personal predilections that had nothing to do with a research project.

I’m a Criminology Professor. I’ve Seen Students Like the Idaho Suspect Before.

MOO

 

[Which_pancake]

"Burner phones" have come a long way over the last ten years or so. Now they are more commonly referred to as "no contract phones" and most of them are smart phones, but much less expensive plans. We have LG Galaxy smart phones from Verizon and pay about $65 a month for the two lines. We've upgraded over the last ten years several times. You register them yourself online, you can use your real name or not, and use your real address or not. And you can pay for monthly minutes using Verizon phone cards if you want.

The only down side for us is that international phone calls are not included, so we use Skype for that, and our phones can receive incoming texts from people in the countries we need to communicate with when not on Skype.

Exactly. I have purchased a few $50-60 TracFones for my forgetful teens and they aren't tied to anyone's name but they are fully functional smart phones. MOO

 

[persimm0n]

I think it's like their wifi saying, Hi, I see you, are you going to log in? Like what the co-pilot's phone did when that Malaysian airplane turned off it's tracker. The plane was invisible but co-pilot's phone was still touching base with localized wifi. I think the tech guys called it a handshake?

New here so hopefully I'm replying to the right comment. This is something I was thinking about - if he turned his phone off or put it in airplane mode on his way there (like the PCA suggests) and wasn't on again until much later/out of range of King Rd.) how would the WiFi have even been able to pick it up? I believe this info was shared by KG's parents and they were told this by their private investigator, whom I don't know anything about, but I do find it hard to believe his phone could have picked up WiFi if it wasn't pinging a cell tower. There are legitimate private investigators and there are people who call themselves such but are regular people who are just really really good at snooping, I hope for their sake they didn't get the latter.