ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 65

[Twistinginthewind]

I have ZERO experience or knowledge about the legal system. Thankfully, I haven’t needed to know.

But I have to ask, because I have seen this word multiple times:

Is BOILERPLATE a made-up word used to ‘fluff’ legal documents?

I really have no idea what it means. Any experts here who can share… but in basic language. Thank you

Boilerplate = standardized

"Boilerplate text, any text that is or can be reused in new contexts or applications without being changed much from the original"

Boilerplate - Wikipedia

 

[10ofRods]

Snipped for focus. It would speak to motive. Thus far, we can't find any connection between him and the victims. Maybe LE knows and it just hasn't been revealed. But if he was searching for someone else in that house (unlikely as it may be), it may shed light on motive. JMO.

No motive needed under Idaho law for a first degree murder conviction. So likely not anyone's first priority. However, I am seriously interested in it, as I think most of us are. It's the one question we all want answered, because it helps us think we can prevent such tragedies in future (not sure that's true, but I like the idea that I can at least try).

The only connection may be that he cruised around, looking through people's windows, and this is a place he frequently paused. It's possible he had fantasy relationship with one of the victims (which he may carry to his grave, who knows). On FB and as InsideLooking (on reddit), he says it was Xana and Maddie who were the targets. Which is interesting. He says it many times. He says there was no "sexual motivation" which I take to mean he planned no sexual assault nor did he consider his own actions to be sexual in nature.

Agree, but only way families may get the answers is confessipn as BK probably won't take stand so motive may never be known. Howver even if confession he may not tell the truth anyway. So risk either way

Good points. However, I think he wants to be one of those (like Rader) who gets someone else to write down his own version of the "full story" and publishes it (he won't get any money - but his sisters or someone else could). This is the kind of work Prof Ramsland specializes in. That's the kind of work he indicated he wanted to do (interview prominent serial killers).

I think Mr. G might be persuaded by a full confession that answered his own questions, every last one of them. A recorded interview (audiovisual). BK would be admitting guilt, but I suspect the families would also like to see some remorse. And an explanation. If BK was having persistent, nearly round-the-clock intrusive thoughts of committing mass murder, for years, that needs to be said where the families who want to know this kind of thing, can know it. I would want to know. Heck, I'd want to be in the room while he explained himself.

 

[kittythehare]

Geragos, Says the search warrant being sealed is suspicious. State says if unsealed could compromise the investigation and cause harm to LE. <modsnip - bashing a Websleuths approved source>


Geragos doubling down on a another suspect imo

I ignore all three of them.
They're just guessing.

 

[di anna]

What difference would it make? He is being charged with breaking into a home and killing 4 people so even if he found himself in the wrong home, there was no need to kill them.

It doesn't seem like anybody was threatening him so I wuold suggest that all he had to do was aplogize for breaking in through a sliding door and exit promptly.

I lived in a large condo building and my youngest walked into the unit next to mine and the nice folks having supper gave him a puzzled look, he apologized, explained where he should have been and assured them it would never happen again but at no time did he feel that he needed to kill anybody in the condo to ease his public embarrassment.

I am curious why you are so eager to believe that BK is somehow not responsible. Can you speak to his character in some way?

Was the door dash person ever on camera? I mean does anyone even know who this person was that delivered food in the wee hours? I am not suggesting that this person did it, but if they have BK's white Elantra then do they have the delivery person's car on camera? Isn't it kind of a coincidence that the delivery
came from out of town, as well as the supposed murderer? I am not trying to defend or purport anything I just think it is a odd coincidence. Isn't there anywhere in Moscow that you can get door dash at those hours of the morning?

 

[Muddy K]

For anyone who is interested, here is an excellent article that I think is worth bookmarking as a resource going forward, since the author's point was to pull together in sequence everything released by LE officials during the investigation to date.

University of Idaho, Moscow homicides: Everything released by officials during the entire investigation, ending with the arrest of Bryan Kohberger | Fingerlakes1.com

Edited to repair link.

 

[10ofRods]

Was the door dash person ever on camera? I mean does anyone even know who this person was that delivered food in the wee hours? I am not suggesting that this person did it, but if they have BK's white Elantra then do they have the delivery person's car on camera? Isn't it kind of a coincidence that the delivery
came from out of town, as well as the supposed murderer? I am not trying to defend or purport anything I just think it is a odd coincidence. Isn't there anywhere in Moscow that you can get door dash at those hours of the morning?

Of course it was, if it used city streets to make its delivery. But PCA do not veer off on tangents like that.

They found and talked to the DoorDash driver, and certainly made sure the extra car they saw on video matched to his/her vehicle use.

Why is it a coincidence that the order came from the only JitB in the region - some 8-12 minutes away. I order a lot from places that are further away. Moscow is only 7 square miles. I live in a town that's 32 square miles, so from my point of view, Pullman and Moscow barely make up one medium sized urban area.

I don't know if there's DoorDash in Moscow at that time. I just know that when I want JitB, I want JitB. A habit I developed at university, where there was almost always someone driving through after 2 am.

Point is, DoorDash DOES deliver from JitB to Moscow and Xana decided to order. I'm not sure why we have to question her choice of fast food. Pullman does have more fast food options.

 

[jash]

This comes from "In Cold, Cold Blood" by Howard Blum from AirMail news. Blum's info here comes from MPD Sgt. Shaine Gunderson who was highest ranking among the first three officers to enter the crime scene:

"It was a quick trip. The roads leading into the university neighborhood that Sunday were as empty as the classrooms. And as soon as Gunderson’s black-and-white cruiser pulled up behind the neat row of cars parked in the driveway of the austere cantilevered house on King Road, he immediately knew something was very wrong.'

"It was the noise: there wasn’t any. Just an eerie, unnatural silence. A cluster of young people, university students presumably, were milling outside the open front door of 1122 like gulls on a beach. And yet they were exceptionally quiet. They weren’t merely subdued. They seemed stunned, as if drained by a deep and intense shock. When the three mystified officers approached the front door, someone in the crowd, it would later be shared, muttered a single, plaintive word: 'Dead.'

"Still, Gunderson would confess to others, he was unprepared for the strong smell of blood that rose up in his nostrils the moment he walked inside."

This interview - firsthand, first on-site account, highly credentialed investigative journalist - flies in the face of all the reports that people were screaming, sobbing, running in terror, fainting. And it segues directly into Dylan's highly similar behavior. All of them were shocked, stunned, traumatized into absolute silence.

MOO

An Exclusive Look Inside the Idaho Murders: Part I

In Part I of his investigation, Howard Blum travels to the quaint town of Moscow and reveals new details about the crime—and the manhunt.

airmail.news

Thank you for sharing! I had never heard of this publication before. Apparently it was founded by Graydon Carter, who was the editor of Vanity Fair for 25 years.

The article seems to confirm that it was, in fact, blood seeping down the exterior foundation. But it also says both surviving roommates were on the first floor so maybe not everything is 100% reliable. Regardless, it's a very good read with some info I hadn't come across elsewhere.

 

[Sundog]

Not sure if this has already been addressed...
His professor at DeSales, the renowned Katherine Ramsland, said she was aware of his survey. It was for his upcoming PHD work at WSU, and the form of the survey is not as unusual as people think it is. She had a word for that form of survey, I'll try to dig it up.

Do you have a link for this information?

I recall that his other professor (for the online course at DeSales) used a descriptive term for the survey type/method, but never read any comments on BK and/or his survey from Dr. Ramsland.

 

[gliving]

I ignore all three of them.
They're just guessing.

It seems to be de rigueur in this case with subjective analyses being written daily - while little facts are known.

 

[wary]

No motive needed under Idaho law for a first degree murder conviction. So likely not anyone's first priority. However, I am seriously interested in it, as I think most of us are. It's the one question we all want answered, because it helps us think we can prevent such tragedies in future (not sure that's true, but I like the idea that I can at least try).

The only connection may be that he cruised around, looking through people's windows, and this is a place he frequently paused. It's possible he had fantasy relationship with one of the victims (which he may carry to his grave, who knows). On FB and as InsideLooking (on reddit), he says it was Xana and Maddie who were the targets. Which is interesting. He says it many times. He says there was no "sexual motivation" which I take to mean he planned no sexual assault nor did he consider his own actions to be sexual in nature.



Good points. However, I think he wants to be one of those (like Rader) who gets someone else to write down his own version of the "full story" and publishes it (he won't get any money - but his sisters or someone else could). This is the kind of work Prof Ramsland specializes in. That's the kind of work he indicated he wanted to do (interview prominent serial killers).

I think Mr. G might be persuaded by a full confession that answered his own questions, every last one of them. A recorded interview (audiovisual). BK would be admitting guilt, but I suspect the families would also like to see some remorse. And an explanation. If BK was having persistent, nearly round-the-clock intrusive thoughts of committing mass murder, for years, that needs to be said where the families who want to know this kind of thing, can know it. I would want to know. Heck, I'd want to be in the room while he explained himself.

I’d like to know his motive, but I would not be too interested in his explanation of it—because I wouldn’t trust a word of it.

What would interest me more would be evidence of cyberstalking, or more evidence of real-world stalking. I think that in this day and age, his computer might say a lot about which girl, if any, specially interested him. What websites did he visit? Did he, by any chance, look up a floor plan of the house? I hope LE has his phone—we’re not sure of that yet, right? These days, I leave a bigger trail in my phone than on my computer.

 

[wary]

Was the door dash person ever on camera? I mean does anyone even know who this person was that delivered food in the wee hours? I am not suggesting that this person did it, but if they have BK's white Elantra then do they have the delivery person's car on camera? Isn't it kind of a coincidence that the delivery
came from out of town, as well as the supposed murderer? I am not trying to defend or purport anything I just think it is a odd coincidence. Isn't there anywhere in Moscow that you can get door dash at those hours of the morning?

The Probable Cause Affidavit says that they’ve talked to the Door Dash Guy. They know who he is.

If it’s true that Xana ordered Jack in the Box, that night, that’s why DDG came from out of town—there isn’t a Jack in the Box in Moscow. (And evidently Pullman and Moscow are close enough that delivery from one place to the other isn’t weird.)

 

[Palinsmom]

I teach a lab class that has a unit on using maps. It is like pulling teeth. I end up having to project a Google map of our campus in order to show them that maps typically put the orientation as North by default (they don't know this) and that the opposite direction is always South (half of them do not know this). And so on. I point out that the actual size of each building is accurately to scale, so their own maps must be accurate as possible (etc).

We do a campus "scavenger hunt" using a paper map. Oh my. Well, after that assignment everyone realizes that teamwork is important and that the 5-6 excellent map readers should be split up and assigned to different teams.

All that being said, some people just really suck at navigation and others seem naturally gifted in that area. Some people tell me they get lost very easily. Some of my students are still being dropped off at campus by grandma or another family member. If I choose several well known locales near campus and ask them to map them onto a properly oriented map, it's almost impossible for them to do from memory. What's the closest way to get to the beach? They don't know, they would usually just consult Google. How many miles is it to the beach, approximately? Some know, most are wild guesses. If I ask everyone to stand up and face the direction they believe to be South, there will be varied responses, with people guessing who is right and then mimicking that person (who is often wrong). It doesn't help that the local freeway onramp that's closest labels the directions "northbound and southbound" when in fact, right where that offramp is, it's actually East/West traffic for a few miles.

I am thinking BK is not one of the navigationally gifted. I don't think he knew better than to tailgate. I don't think he's spatially aware. Or temporally aware (aware of how many times he made the same mistake in an hour, for example).

At 63 yrs old, I still have and love my Rand McNally Road Maps. My daughter had a HS class in Orienteering, which I had never heard of, but fascinating...Navigating with a Compass. Everyone should learn this impov---I have no clue, but thrilled she does Wish I had you as a teacher when I was in school
[/QUOTE]

I work in the school system. I’ve worked with ages K-12. It’s a scary thought that our futures after retirement will rely o some of them. They are so tech dependent that they think it’s the end of the world when internet isn’t working ( my over emphasis ) if you give them a text book- now I’m referring to middle school and high school students- they have no clue how to use the index, or glossary. Many of them don’t even know how to find words in a hard bound dictionary! I’m all for Tech it is extremely important but I feel that simple knowledge of how to use text books should still be included.
Just my opinions and observations. Oh, also some don’t realized that the US and Canada are both located on the same continent
So overall, maybe BK needed his phone for directions? Just speculation

 

[Imogenia]

New York Times disagrees. So do I. But then, I've read all of them and also read about how they were linked to BK and I'm convinced. Have you ever been on a TapATalk health board?

He definitely wrote the TapATalk posts, (obviously, by the evidence linking them to him), and I do not think that he was exaggerating the symptoms at all. If anything, I agree with the psychologist that he was holding back.

 

[gliving]

For the sake of staying factual, the affidavit does not say Xana ordered from Jack in the Box. Some have presumed this from the bag behind the sink.

"This is with the exception of Kenrodle, who received a DoorDash order at the residence at approximately 4:00 a.m. (law enforcement identified the DoorDash delivery driver who reported this information)."

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

University of Idaho student Xana Kernodle got DoorDash delivery just minutes before her murder

Kernodle and three of her roommates were stabbed to death by a crazed knifeman between 4 a.m. and 4:25 a.m. on Nov. 13.

nypost.com

 

[DeDee]

New here so hopefully I'm replying to the right comment. This is something I was thinking about - if he turned his phone off or put it in airplane mode on his way there (like the PCA suggests) and wasn't on again until much later/out of range of King Rd.) how would the WiFi have even been able to pick it up? I believe this info was shared by KG's parents and they were told this by their private investigator, whom I don't know anything about, but I do find it hard to believe his phone could have picked up WiFi if it wasn't pinging a cell tower. There are legitimate private investigators and there are people who call themselves such but are regular people who are just really really good at snooping, I hope for their sake they didn't get the latter.

Welcome to WS! Looks like you did everything just right.

I'm not sure of the source of the wifi connection between BK and the 1122 house but I think you're right in that it was Kaylee's parents who released that particular data.

This activity is more than a simple handshake between the house's wifi and his phone. Furthermore, this is strictly my own opinion.

When I purchased a new passcode protected wifi router, my guests needed to obtain my router's pass code so they could connect to wifi without using their data. However, on subsequent visits, they no longer needed the pass code because their devices had already been connected to my wifi. Hence, their devices recognized my wifi connection without requiring them to enter the passcode again.

For that reason alone, I think BK had been in the home before. His phone recognized the home's wifi and connected to it.

MHOO

 

[Tillyjames]

He definitely wrote the TapATalk posts, (obviously, by the evidence linking them to him), and I do not think that he was exaggerating the symptoms at all. If anything, I agree with the psychologist that he was holding back.

What did the psychologist say about him holding back? Can you explain or link? I haven’t seen this

 

[10ofRods]

I have ZERO experience or knowledge about the legal system. Thankfully, I haven’t needed to know.

But I have to ask, because I have seen this word multiple times:

Is BOILERPLATE a made-up word used to ‘fluff’ legal documents?

I really have no idea what it means. Any experts here who can share… but in basic language. Thank you

No. It's more like "bare bones template," like the forms that your doctor gives you for patient history.

I worked as a paralegal, mostly writing documents like this - but for civil trials. There's just standard language, usually state-wide, that everyone knows to start with, so as to get the widest range of discovery possible.

More categories can be added later.

It's not "fluff." But there's no need to reinvent the wheel when you're in a court of law. The Judge is going to recognize and approve things that have been recognized and approved 1000X before. It's more like using an ax to hack at a case, rather than "fluffing" like a pillow. It's not a comfortable process for anyone, can be tedious, but is also exciting as it goes on (for those privy to the results).

What it means is that no one is going to argue about the meaning of the words or what is intended to be sought and every judge is going to okay it. Adding in unusual things at the beginning just stalls the process.

Either side can delve deeper for further discovery. However, my experience of DA's and PD's says that they will cover their constitutional bases, but cannot possibly afford the hours and hours of "cleverness" that cause some private criminal defense attorneys can throw into a case (thereby making it drag on and on, but also, perhaps finding more evidence). The document filed satisfies all legal requirements, and every few years, we can expect such documents to grow longer, as they are organic.

 

[sunshineray]

New here so hopefully I'm replying to the right comment. This is something I was thinking about - if he turned his phone off or put it in airplane mode on his way there (like the PCA suggests) and wasn't on again until much later/out of range of King Rd.) how would the WiFi have even been able to pick it up? I believe this info was shared by KG's parents and they were told this by their private investigator, whom I don't know anything about, but I do find it hard to believe his phone could have picked up WiFi if it wasn't pinging a cell tower. There are legitimate private investigators and there are people who call themselves such but are regular people who are just really really good at snooping, I hope for their sake they didn't get the latter.

He didn't turn his phone off during at least the 12 times mentioned in the PCA. LE were able to track him "stalking" the girls/house...that area...at nighttime into early morning hours.

 

[Boxer]

I just took a little google maps drive along Indian Hills Road.

The 700 block has a nice overlook view to the south, over an airport and open fields.

I can picture BK driving out there to have a psychological "moment" -- either to work up courage, or to try to talk himself out of it. Or even just to pass time if he arrived in town earlier than his schedule said to go to King Rd.

It may have zero to do with what is there in terms of people or houses, just a quiet spot for reflection.

Entirely speculation and MOO

Also, Indian Hills is a road name reminiscent of his parents home in Indian Lake. There is a an Indian Hills Road south of Albrightsville.

It actually looks
like a bit of a parallel road for a while if going from Albrightsville to De Sales U.
As in a food stop etc.
Even though he was a remote student I believe he had to go there for some admin things sometimes.
There is a Vegan friendly restaurant not too far out of the way, in Jim Thorpe -Stone Row Eatery, not far from the Indian Hills Rd. Strangely, Indian Hill Rd. terminates in Fairyland Rd.

I would say he was driving around in Moscow thinking and possibly reminiscing and as OP above said.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Every cell in my brain (and the facts LE has shared) tells me BK is guilty. MOO.
But even if he didn't commit these horrendous acts of violence, I still wouldn't feel sorry for him as it appears he's certainly not in a healthy head space. This exposure will have highlighted his personal health issues and, if they're valid, will ensure he gets the help he needs (as illustrated by his own accounts in the TapATalk content.)
In a perfect world, these people would be identified and given help earlier or separated from innocent society. In either case, I'm thankful that BK has surfaced to the public's attention. He needed exposure.
Mooing like a cow, for sure!!!