ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 66

[jepop]

It definitely seems reasonable, but I don't like reporter speculation without it being identified as such. If they felt they had to include that, they should have included a qualifier like "he COULD HAVE checked on Goncalves room at this time". But being stated like a fact in a purported timeline of facts rubs me the wrong way, and makes me less likely to trust the rest of the article. The only reason I picked up on that is because I read the PCA. If I didn't know as much about the case, I would assume that was a known fact.

I agree, that kind of reporting, that appears to present opinion as fact, erodes my trust in the source. MOO. I'm very interested in the facts that can be established in this horrible case.

 

[Txsubmom]

But how does he know K is now driving the range rover that she bought the day before? If he's been stalking her for awhile, he connects her to her old car not the range rover.

I think he was after Maddie. Ran into her at her job and became fixated on her. Saw her name on the receipt or name tag. Didn't know her last name.

I wonder what a google search of "Maddie,Moscow Idaho " before the murders pulled up. Would that have pulled up Maddie's instagram or facebook? Maddie isn't a common name and neither is Xana or Kaylee. That's the problem I have with all these unique names. So easy to find somebody without their last names.

It seems like you can blend in more with a traditional name like Kim, Lisa, Laura, Mary. If you have a traditional name, somebody needs to take that extra step of finding your last name in order to stalk you.

Actually Maddie IS a very common name now. I have a niece, late 20s named Madison (Maddie). My friend’s son is dating a 20 year old Maddie. I volunteer at my son’s HS and I see lots of Maddies (Madison), Addies (Addison, Adelaide, Addilynn) and Mckenzies, etc (my HS son has had 3 girlfriends and 2 had these names) Kaylee is pretty common as well in that age group. Xana is unusual… That said, I still have the feeling MOO that Maddie was the target due to Kaylee moving out before that weekend.

 

[Txsubmom]

But how does he know K is now driving the range rover that she bought the day before? If he's been stalking her for awhile, he connects her to her old car not the range rover.

I think he was after Maddie. Ran into her at her job and became fixated on her. Saw her name on the receipt or name tag. Didn't know her last name.

I wonder what a google search of "Maddie,Moscow Idaho " before the murders pulled up. Would that have pulled up Maddie's instagram or facebook? Maddie isn't a common name and neither is Xana or Kaylee. That's the problem I have with all these unique names. So easy to find somebody without their last names.

It seems like you can blend in more with a traditional name like Kim, Lisa, Laura, Mary. If you have a traditional name, somebody needs to take that extra step of finding your last name in order to stalk you.

Actually Maddie IS a very common name now. I have a niece, late 20s named Madison (Maddie). My friend’s son is dating a 20 year old Maddie. I volunteer at my son’s HS and I see lots of Maddies (Madison), Addies (Addison, Adelaide, Addilynn), McKennas, and Mckenzies, etc (my HS son has had 3 girlfriends and 2 had these names) Kaylee is pretty common as well in that age group. Xana is unusual… That said, I still have the feeling MOO that Maddie was the target due to Kaylee moving out before that weekend.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

People do it ALL the time. My life is full of people asking me my ancestry, almost the instant they are introduced.

It's interesting that the person guessed Italian (BK is part Italian IMO - rather a goodly part) but he decided to instead identify with his paternal line.

It looks like BK was interested in his paternal line.

I know lots of people who are constantly asked "What ARE you?" or, better, "What's your ancestry?" or "I just had my ancestry done, what's yours?"

There is no reason people need to be "at a point" when they get their DNA tested, but those of us with "suspicious" DNA might do so. Did BK want to be only German? Or something?

DNA tests reveal way way more than just ancestry.

Oh yes, I agree I find it interesting myself to chat about that with people and my family! I am always curious people's ancestry/cultural background, traditions and practices, etc.

But what I think struck me as odd (and maybe a sense of arrogance in way?) is it didn't sound like a two-way genuinely curious conversation by two people by the way it's worded. I got the vibe BK was asking someone he barely knows their impression about him by the way he looks and acts?

Like does he really go around thinking he looks and acts German and perhaps German only? Could be back context of the article or BK truly sees himself deeply somehow resonating with being German (or the stereotype of what a German person is supposed to be like). JMO, MOO

I might be reading too much into it though lol... chomping on the tidbits of info coming out and dissecting it all!

 

[Dre]

I think the 2nd suspect aspect is absolutely his fabrication, another (of few) well-thought out plans.

I think he’s too personally obsessive, serious and controlling to have bonded with anyone else enough to conspire to this.
plus what would be keeping him from pinning the most heinous parts on said person immediately.

I just hope the eventual jury isn’t duped. With the right lawyer and the right twist…

Jmo

 

[Lalalacasbah]

This would explain why BK was excited about learning about his ancestry and excited to tell the first person he saw (the neighbor) all about it because it was one more thing he was now fully educated in and could flaunt his intelligence in. BK seems to really like to learn as much as he can about criminology and this was probably a good day for him.

Respectfully snipped You make a great point here. As I was finding it an odd thing to ask someone he knew to try to guess about his ancestry and a weird question to pose - makes sense what you said that he might've been excited to find out German and shared this news with the few people he might've spoken to outside of classes.

 

[Nova]

Traffic stops are also time-stamped, 10:42AM first one, 3:50PM second one. BK driving both times.

Isn't there something weird about those times? I thought the discussion recorded at stop #2 had one of the Kohberger men talking about how they had just been stopped.

Google search shows Indiana is only 145 miles from West border to East. Even if they stopped for lunch, it wouldn't take over FIVE HOURS to drive it on the freeway!

ETA by "weird" I mean "off" and I wasn't knocking layer's reporting. I think his/her times are what were on the tapes, but one of the body cams was wrong.

ETA2: acute name posts a media account that says the two stops took place within about 10 minutes of one another. Even though Indiana is divided (unequally) between EST and CST, that doesn't account for the time span on the body cam footages.

 

[jepop]

Sorry, my point was more about why would he not sit still and stalk the house if he was waiting for lights off to attack. This driving around could make him miss important details (like, say, someone coming over), exposes him to cameras, makes noise and therefore might expose him to witnesses - and I cannot figure out the benefits. All MOO.

There are at least a few factual mistakes there: once they use D-s last name for BK and there was a typo in at least one time on a graph (IIRC it was 1:20 vs 4.20). I think I caught one more.

I don't think it is. Page 3:
"This is with the exception of Kenrodle, who received a DoorDash order at the residence at approximately 4:00."
Could be anything from 3.45 to 4.15 for all we know.

BBM, I agree ( see bolded). His approach confused me too. I now figure it was a conscious or more likely unconscious toss up between self preservation, comfort (the cold) and pressure of impulse. IOW emotional investment overrode cold calculation in terms of approaching the scene. MOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

POV from someone interested in 'that stuff', it's easy to get into the subject of something you are interested in if it comes up.
The fact that the neighbour is mentioned as not being from the U.S., highlights that they may have got into a conversation about a particular destination (maybe the neighbour is from Europe), so BK says, where you do think my family is from? and then, when the person gets it wrong, he gets to talk about genealogy, that he is interested in.
JMO

Very true, I find that all interesting as well and ask others about it. And you make a good point as well.

I replied to 10ofRods and EBW321 as well to say I think what I found odd was BK asking someone to guess about who he was and what ancestry he looked like. What does a German look like? I'm Dutch, I have blonde hair that's about it (is it a fact Dutch people are mostly blonde? No idea lol)

I guess because we keep teaching our kids and others not to judge someone's ethnicity and culture by the way one looks, so I found the question BK posed a bit awkward (if someone asked me that I might just toss something out there and try not to offend someone somehow as I 'd feel put on the spot, how does one answer that lol?) JMO, MOO

 

[EncyclopediaBrownJr]

Actually Maddie IS a very common name now. I have a niece, late 20s named Madison (Maddie). My friend’s son is dating a 20 year old Maddie. I volunteer at my son’s HS and I see lots of Maddies (Madison), Addies (Addison, Adelaide, Addilynn) and Mckenzies, etc (my HS son has had 3 girlfriends and 2 had these names) Kaylee is pretty common as well in that age group. Xana is unusual… That said, I still have the feeling MOO that Maddie was the target due to Kaylee moving out before that weekend.

yep, i'm old and out of touch with modern names. People won't even have to look at me and know just by my name that i'm old. Like when I was young, i'd see a name like Elmer...ohhh he's old. lol.

 

[avalonisland]

Yes on the real estate, he seemed to be a methodical planner.

I would guess no to the party, as he would definitely be remembered as a sore thumb at that specific residence, and I think he would likely know how out of place he would seem as well.

jmo

BK had training in hvac, so perhaps he was a handyman for the house? I do believe that BK knew via social media posts by victims that Kaylee was visiting for perhaps last weekend prior to prepping for move to Texas which maybe prompted BK to act on his fanstasy of stabbings.

 

[avalonisland]

BBM, I agree ( see bolded). His approach confused me too. I now figure it was a conscious or more likely unconscious toss up between self preservation, comfort (the cold) and pressure of impulse. IOW emotional investment overrode cold calculation in terms of approaching the scene. MOO

The exterior 2nd floor patio lights were left on, as were the interior 2nd floor "family room" party lights, so house was not fully dark, even if bedroom lights off. I think the doordash or roommate still up on 2nd floor may have not been in BK's plan but he decided to carry out plan, as it appears he may have known Kaylee was not going to be hanging out/living at house after Nov 13th, as BK seemed to follow one or more victims on social media

 

[pittsburghgirl]

You're a treasure!

I see clusters. I don't know what their travel style might have been but if someone is posting in the comfort of their own home (pretending to be BK), they sure do 1) stay up late and 2) post in clusters.

(As many of us do). The first posts are at the bottom of the list (early morning - like 1 am, it starts), then off to bed by 2 am, right? Then up early for some posting until just after noon, then a big break.

Do you know the timezones here? It would be fascinating to figure out exactly when the traffic stops were (if possible) and see where they fall here.

But if we pretend it's Bryan and Dad, then Dad drives in the morning (makes sense), after lunch, Bryan takes over and drives until it's time for gas/dinner (about 4 hours, as many as 280 miles). Then, Dad drives again and then they go to bed?

For all of you who have said how nice it is for Dad to fly out to drive with him and that your dad did similar things, did your dad actually offer to drive?

Some of us had dads (or moms) who insisted on driving as much as possible, others did not. My dad would have driven quite a bit of the route, no question about it.

Thank you, layer - this is an interesting topic for us to do our own sleuthing and try to figure out.

My Dad always drove.

 

[EBW321]

What if it was his father's DNA he submitted?
MOO

MOO- that would do him no good.

His fathers DNA (From family trash can) is what matched the Knife Sheath to him and got him arrested When compared to the sheath.

If he is trying to swap out his online national database DNA sample with anyone… He should have done a stranger… Not his father who leads straight back to him and defeats the purpose of submitting someone else’s DNA….

I know he is heartless if he can commit that Number of senseless murders in one night… but even if he swapped dads DNA for his.. Dad is married and lives across the country… dads dna sample would still ultimately lead investigators to son, once dads alibi clears.

im also not really sure how he could achieve acquiring a stranger sample /swab with his lack of charm and awkward nature…..which you need a mouth swab to submit the test… challenging to say the least for a non-healthcare provider… to request from strangers….possible yes… likely…no.

MOO- I just don’t understand….why someone who’s considering murdering someone/multiple people…someone who had been stalking people/was making plans in his head to commit a horrific crime, would submit his DNA in a national database for any reason…

He of all people had to have known the danger of this and how it could lead to his arrest if any mistake was made and left behind any forensic evidence.

if he did….that’s a big IF….the only logical thing i can think of is if he provided a fake name and age… fake email, fake place of birth… etc. to run the test…. And did it purely to find out if any of his other relatives matched with him…. To clarify to him and him alone….. whether or not LE could ever connect him to crimes via his DNA unintentionally left behind at a crime scene.

I feel like this is something he’d like to know and forget about the consequences of obtaining such knowledge while having tunnel vision on the planning of the crime he wanted to commit.

Still… no part of my theory explains why LE claims it was a distant relative only that matched with the DNA on the knife sheath. If indeed he did submit his DNA to a large company that LE uses to compare forensic evidence… LE Never mentions his DNA Coming up as a match. Which leads me to believe it was not there.

Which makes me wonder if he researched how to dilute a DNA sample to give only a partial match. (FYI… not sure this is even possible.. but if his goal was to locate relatives who may have submitted their DNA that may connect to him… not him wanting to know his ancestry… and him understanding the percentages of accuracy from different types of samples…and what percentage is needed to be fully genetically identified…It’s possible? Maybe?) At this point If this was his goal… finding partial matches to his diluted sample may have sufficed to him. The test would list partial/distant relative matches and give him the information he needed… potentially without fully connecting him / creating a full accurate genetic profile on him.

Tampering with the submission however…. Could have backfired on him… Maybe, just maybe… he was generated a limited genetic profile… had no hits on the relatives which all know where in there….

Which made him sigh in relief… when it was revealed no genetic matches appeared.

Which was only because he tampered too much with his sample.

again… all MOO - Just throwing out ideas. Trying to understand why a criminal / criminologist get submits his dna to ancestry dna right before he commits multiple murders. DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

 

[EBW321]

What if it was his father's DNA he submitted?
MOO

MOO- that would do him no good.

His fathers DNA (From family trash can) is what matched the Knife Sheath to him and got him arrested When compared to the sheath.

If he is trying to swap out his online national database DNA sample with anyone… He should have done a stranger… Not his father who leads straight back to him and defeats the purpose of submitting someone else’s DNA….

I know he is heartless if he can commit that Number of senseless murders in one night… but even if he swapped dads DNA for his.. Dad is married and lives across the country… dads dna sample would still ultimately lead investigators to son, once dads alibi clears.

im also not really sure how he could achieve acquiring a stranger sample /swab with his lack of charm and awkward nature…..which you need a mouth swab to submit the test… challenging to say the least for a non-healthcare provider… to request from strangers….possible yes… likely…no.

MOO- I just don’t understand….why someone who’s considering murdering someone/multiple people…someone who had been stalking people/was making plans in his head to commit a horrific crime, would submit his DNA in a national database for any reason…

He of all people had to have known the danger of this and how it could lead to his arrest if any mistake was made and left behind any forensic evidence.

if he did….that’s a big IF….the only logical thing i can think of is if he provided a fake name and age… fake email, fake place of birth… etc. to run the test…. And did it purely to find out if any of his other relatives matched with him…. To clarify to him and him alone….. whether or not LE could ever connect him to crimes via his DNA unintentionally left behind at a crime scene.

I feel like this is something he’d like to know and forget about the consequences of obtaining such knowledge while having tunnel vision on the planning of the crime he wanted to commit.

Still… no part of my theory explains why LE claims it was a distant relative only that matched with the DNA on the knife sheath. If indeed he did submit his DNA to a large company that LE uses to compare forensic evidence… LE Never mentions his DNA Coming up as a match. Which leads me to believe it was not there.

Which makes me wonder if he researched how to dilute a DNA sample to give only a partial match. (FYI… not sure this is even possible.. but if his goal was to locate relatives who may have submitted their DNA that may connect to him… not him wanting to know his ancestry… and him understanding the percentages of accuracy from different types of samples…and what percentage is needed to be fully genetically identified…It’s possible? Maybe?) At this point If this was his goal… finding partial matches to his diluted sample may have sufficed to him. The test would list partial/distant relative matches and give him the information he needed… potentially without fully connecting him / creating a full accurate genetic profile on him.

Tampering with the submission however…. Could have backfired on him… Maybe, just maybe… he was generated a limited genetic profile… had no hits on the relatives which all know where in there….

Which made him sigh in relief… when it was revealed no genetic matches appeared.

Which was only because he tampered too much with his sample.

again… all MOO - Just throwing out ideas. Trying to understand why a criminal / criminologist get submits his dna to ancestry dna right before he commits multiple murders. DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

 

[drmrgrl]

BK lived in graduate student housing at WSU, which is kind of wild to me as that kind of apartment is usually only offered to couples / families, at least at institutions I've studied at. His neighbor who complained about his late night activity had a family, for example.

That being said... I wonder if BK had looked for alternative living situations? I'm sure he looked around. I wonder if WSU has an institutional database for finding apartments or roommates that he might have looked at. I know that was something I looked at when I was moving for graduate school.

IMO, is it possible that BK wanted to live at 1122 King Rd and that’s why he was contacting the roommates?

 

[EBW321]

What if it was his father's DNA he submitted?
MOO

MOO- that would do him no good.

His fathers DNA (From family trash can) is what ultimately confirmed to the police that the distant relative match previously obtained by detectives connecting BK via sample left on the knife sheath was accurate.. now… with the fathers DNA from the trash to compare…they had a much closer match to the DNA sample left on the Knife Sheath A 99% first degree relative match… so really if you think about it that way… his fathers DNA is what got him arrested.. provided the strongest substantial, probable cause evidence to arrest him.

If he is trying to swap out his online national database DNA sample with anyone… He should have done a stranger… Not his father who leads straight back to him and defeats the purpose of submitting someone else’s DNA….

I know he is heartless if he can commit that Number of senseless murders in one night… but even if he swapped dads DNA for his.. Dad is married and lives across the country… dads dna sample would still ultimately lead investigators to son, once dads alibi clears.

im also not really sure how he could achieve acquiring a stranger sample /swab with his lack of charm and awkward nature…..which you need a mouth swab to submit the test… challenging to say the least for a non-healthcare provider… to request from strangers….possible yes… likely…no.

MOO- I just don’t understand….why someone who’s considering murdering someone/multiple people…someone who had been stalking people/was making plans in his head to commit a horrific crime, would submit his DNA in a national database for any reason…

He of all people had to have known the danger of this and how it could lead to his arrest if any mistake was made and left behind any forensic evidence.

if he did….that’s a big IF….the only logical thing i can think of is if he provided a fake name and age… fake email, fake place of birth… etc. to run the test…. And did it purely to find out if any of his other relatives matched with him…. To clarify to him and him alone….. whether or not LE could ever connect him to crimes via his DNA unintentionally left behind at a crime scene.

I feel like this is something he’d like to know and forget about the consequences of obtaining such knowledge while having tunnel vision on the planning of the crime he wanted to commit.

Still… no part of my theory explains why LE claims it was a distant relative only that matched with the DNA on the knife sheath. If indeed he did submit his DNA to a large company that LE uses to compare forensic evidence… LE Never mentions his DNA Coming up as a match. Which leads me to believe it was not there.

Which makes me wonder if he researched how to dilute a DNA sample to give only a partial match. (FYI… not sure this is even possible.. but if his goal was to locate relatives who may have submitted their DNA that may connect to him… not him wanting to know his ancestry… and him understanding the percentages of accuracy from different types of samples…and what percentage is needed to be fully genetically identified…It’s possible? Maybe?) At this point If this was his goal… finding partial matches to his diluted sample may have sufficed to him. The test would list partial/distant relative matches and give him the information he needed… potentially without fully connecting him / creating a full accurate genetic profile on him.

Tampering with the submission however…. Could have backfired on him… Maybe, just maybe… he was generated a limited genetic profile… had no hits on the relatives which all know where in there….

Which made him sigh in relief… when it was revealed no genetic matches appeared.

Which was only because he tampered too much with his sample.

again… all MOO - Just throwing out ideas. Trying to understand why a criminal / criminologist get submits his dna to ancestry dna right before he commits multiple murders. DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.

 

[MaisieBella]

DBM

 

[MaisieBella]

I’ve just seen this. Sorry if already shared! He was sending DMs to one of the girls on Instagram.

Bryan Kohberger 'messaged victim on INSTAGRAM before killings'

A new report indicates that suspected University of Idaho murderer Bryan Kohberger was 'persistent' in sending Instagram messaged to one of the victims in the weeks leading up to the attacks.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[layer]

just looked up the traffic stops- 10:41 and 10:50 a.m. IN time

The bodycam timestamps say otherwise:

First stop


Second stop


Source video

ETA:
As Ksfarmer8 pointed out (some kind of genius BTW), presuming the ISP was using UTC the times do indeed work out to about 10 minutes apart if the ISP stop occurred in Eastern Indiana and the first stop in was Central Indiana.