ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 67

[Which_pancake]

Honestly, why would one keep receipts for items they bought to commit a crime? I would think you'd go to some random store far away, pay cash, burn the receipt, and get rid of the item afterwards. Surely he wasn't going to return the item, or turn the receipt in to his accountant. There are thrift stores everywhere, too, maybe less likely to have cameras or whatnot. I've seen multiple cases where there was Walmart footage of the perp buying bleach or whatever right before he crime. Stupid.

Use own car...check
Take phone, turn it on and off...check
Save all receipts...check
MOO

 

[WingsOverTX]

From the unsealed document:

"These murders appear to have been
planned, rather than a crime that happened in a moment of conflict. Ibelieve it likely that
Kohberger planned his actions ahead of time ."

That makes me think that all the murders might have been planned. We've discussed at length how there could have been one main victim and the rest were collateral damage, but that sounds as though he intended to kill all of them from the get-go. JMOO Thoughts?

That has always seemed logical to me. Why go into a house with multiple residents at home when you are only looking for one victim? Sure one person may have first caught his attention but the opportunity to multiply the carnage was what he wanted IMO. Hates women. Hates men who are successful with women.

I wonder when he sent the 1st IG message to K? He could see from her posts that it was an opportunity to take multiple lives.

Where/when/how did he learn to use the knife? He was thinking about this for years IMO. When did the planning start?

JMOO

 

[Walela]

It is included towards the end of the document released today. It is an application to search his home and office.

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search warrant for bryan kohberger apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

Thank you!!! Page 30...got it.

 

[Swansee]

Thank you @Nila Aella, @ray9898 and @NyxNY for your replies, especially the clarification about it being only a latent print.

I finally read the Airmail article by Blum, linked several threads ago, which describes a "cluster of young people" already present by the time LE arrived. So multiple people could have stepped in some blood there, or, since this seems to have been a party house, it could be anyone's really.
I don't understand the part where Blum says the survivors called their friends after they "found it impossible to rouse their roommates". Weird way to put it considering how obvious the roommates' condition must have been. Perhaps he is just extrapolating that from the 911 "unconscious" terminology?
Hopefully the print will still be a helpful element in spite of it only being a latent one and all these other people coming over to the house before LE.
Sorry if all this has been said before! I am very late to this topic and will try to read a lot more before I post any more questions!

 

[10ofRods]

They also recovered Marshall receipt. Here in my town Marshalls sells Vans, etc. So maybe the receipt has “shoes” on the purchase.

WELCOME TO WEBSLEUTHS!​

I think Marshalls would list the brand right on the receipt. I sure hope so.

I also hope like heck that a bunch of people noticed him wearing Vans. Best of all, I hope there are family pictures and school pictures of him wearing Vans. Preferably found right on his own phone.

 

[insearchoflight]

I was thinking about the type of searches that could be incriminating. (Page 2 of search warrant) SO if he searched for murders after the Time of death but prior to 11:58 when 911 was called is what I was trying to say, that would be incriminating. JMO

Right. Like googling “local murder” over and over that morning. You know, before he couldn’t help it anymore and drove back to the house around 9am….

Moo

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Use own car...check
Take phone, turn it on and off...check
Save all receipts...check
MOO

Just missing "google how to get away with a mass murder"

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

There are lots of disorganized academics who aren't all that competent in real world activities. BK definitely had problems completing previous schooling, and I personally believe there's no evidence that he ever lived outside the parental home. He spent a lot of time online and in reading/thinking.

Almost anyone can snap under stress and behave in ways that look crazy. However, this crime took some planning, which I believe he did. He just didn't know how his own psyche would operate under such extreme conditions. It's a lot like thinking you know what it's like to go through labor and delivery, before you've done it. Or, for that matter, what a broken leg feels like when you've never had one.

I was thinking he probably had some earlier crimes under his belt, but now I'm not so sure. He does look like a complete newbie.


I am speaking of the categories typically used by the prosecution and the defense.

The prosecution will claim that evidence is incriminating, the term "exonerating" is used by the defense as a general term for all evidence that helps their case. When discovery happens, most discovery documents mention that all exonerating or potentially exonerating evidence discovered by the prosecution must be produced and given to the defense, as a matter of due process.

It is related to the dictionary definition, but I'm using it in the sense of a process of legal discovery. Perhaps I should use the word "exculpatory" instead, but thought maybe that would pose problems of comprehension.

Here's wikipedia's definition of the Brady rule:

//The Brady doctrine is a pretrial discovery rule that was established by the United States Supreme Court in Brady v. Maryland (1963).[2] The rule requires that the prosecution must turn over all exculpatory evidence to the defendant in a criminal case. Exculpatory evidence is evidence that might exonerate the defendant.[3] (my emphasis, complete text with active footnotes posted just below).

Brady disclosure - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If the evidence *might* exonerate (show innocence) then it is exculpatory as well. And must be produced if the prosecution has any such thing.

We can just agree to disagree. His defense attorney could not use the fact that some items taken on a search warrant were not used as evidence against his client, to claim that it was those items are exculpatory evidence. Exculpatory and exonerate do not apply to any of those items, a different dog hair, or human hair, not of the victims', found in his apartment does nothing to show he is innocent. Those terms are only used for evidence that shows proof of innocence or the impossibility of the person having committed the crime. MOO
Edit to remove other quote

 

[10ofRods]

Thank you @Nila Aella, @ray9898 and @NyxNY for your replies, especially the clarification about it being only a latent print.

I finally read the Airmail article by Blum, linked several threads ago, which describes a "cluster of young people" already present by the time LE arrived. So multiple people could have stepped in some blood there, or, since this seems to have been a party house, it could be anyone's really.
I don't understand the part where Blum says the survivors called their friends after they "found it impossible to rouse their roommates". Weird way to put it considering how obvious the roommates' condition must have been. Perhaps he is just extrapolating that from the 911 "unconscious" terminology?
Hopefully the print will still be a helpful element in spite of it only being a latent one and all these other people coming over to the house before LE.
Sorry if all this has been said before! I am very late to this topic and will try to read a lot more before I post any more questions!

We need evidence that any of this group actually went inside the house (I believe at least 2 people did but their shoes are known to LE by now).

The latent print cannot appear out of nowhere. There has to be another one just before the one recovered, and that one should have more blood and the one before that even more blood - until eventually there is a trial of bloody footprints. I believe this trail exists for at least one foot of the murderer. He stepped in blood and then tracked it where ever he tracked it.

I do not believe that any of the young people who showed up were wandering around in the house. I believe the young women were unwilling to spend much time in the house, from the time they opened the door to the 2nd floor bedroom of Xana.

At any rate, LE will have asked every one of those people to allow their feet to be photographed and, I assume, also to give DNA swabs. That way, they can track down random feet and DNA to their proper owners. It's really standard, I can't imagine it wouldn't be done.

Investigators may take shoe prints from all people known to be at or near the scene, along with their identifying data.


None of this would be available to us and most of it would never come in at trial (although the defense is still entitled to see all of it). Let's hope no one else was wearing that model of Vans in that size.

 

[Which_pancake]

Thank you @Nila Aella, @ray9898 and @NyxNY for your replies, especially the clarification about it being only a latent print.

I finally read the Airmail article by Blum, linked several threads ago, which describes a "cluster of young people" already present by the time LE arrived. So multiple people could have stepped in some blood there, or, since this seems to have been a party house, it could be anyone's really.
I don't understand the part where Blum says the survivors called their friends after they "found it impossible to rouse their roommates". Weird way to put it considering how obvious the roommates' condition must have been. Perhaps he is just extrapolating that from the 911 "unconscious" terminology?
Hopefully the print will still be a helpful element in spite of it only being a latent one and all these other people coming over to the house before LE.
Sorry if all this has been said before! I am very late to this topic and will try to read a lot more before I post any more questions!

My personal opinion - that author was just presenting all the publicly known information with a writer's touch. I would agree that he was extrapolating from the 911 terminology. It didn't come across to me like he had any inside information. MOO

 

[Sundog]

No Vans listed on the search warrant document, or any other kind of shoes, but I feel like it's pretty likely that if he is the murderer he ditched the shoes or brought them home / cleaned them and continued to wear them. IMO

I thought I read that the search warrant included looking for shoes with a diamond sole pattern. IIRC.

 

[10ofRods]

We can just agree to disagree. His defense attorney could not use the fact that some items taken on a search warrant were not used as evidence against his client, to claim that it was those items are exculpatory evidence. Exculpatory and exonerate do not apply to any of those items, a different dog hair, or human hair, not of the victims', found in his apartment does nothing to show he is innocent. Those terms are only used for evidence that shows proof of innocence or the impossibility of the person having committed the crime. MOO

So you don't think the defense can mention that his apartment was searched and that nothing was found to incriminate him? (If that's how the defense sees the facts?)

I think they can and will, if they are at all able. They'll try to show that LE investigated BK thoroughly and found no fibers at his home to connect him (incriminate him). What is your word for the opposite of "incriminate"?

Also, on a different topic, there's no mention of them taking plumbing items out of the apartment, which concerns and exasperates me. Perhaps this warrant was re-served at some point, but really, they should have taken the sink trap/U pipe and the shower drain should have been removed and taken to lab.

If all of that was done and there was absolutely no evidence of victim DNA in that apartment, that helps the defense quite a bit. IMO.

And if it turns out there was only, say, a Vans receipt, when they put the detective on the stand for the prosecution, the defense will go down a checklist of other things looked at which did NOT point at BK.

IMO. That can create reasonable doubt in some people and it's easy to bring in if the prosecution calls a person who was lead on the search of the apartment (which they will do if there's any evidence they think shows that he is guilty).

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I thought I read that the search warrant included looking for shoes with a diamond sole pattern. IIRC.

You are correct. They mention looking for shoes with a diamond sole pattern that appear to be Vans, but no mention of actually locating said shoes.

 

[ktm44]

Also considering how dirty his car was and him cleaning it and throwing the trash in the neighbor's, makes me think the guy isn't very clean or tidy.

My car is quite dirty on the outside right now because all the snow, slush, sand and brine used to clear hazardous highways sprays onto my car every time someone passes me on the highway ad it doesn't make me an unclean person.

I saw the same video everyone else did and the interior of his car appeared to be quite clean so I'm not sure your point is valid.

I do throw my trash in my own bins because it's respectful not to fill neighbour's bins but I think he either knew LE was watching him and decided to make them work harder or he wanted to try and hide things that may have been incriminating. I would suggest that a more prudent person would have disposed of trash over various locations much further from his home.

 

[MCMi9viv]

The warrant is looking for dark clothing but no clothing is noted on the Return of Service. I think he disposed of the (Dickies receipt) Walmart clothing and the blood stains on the pillow and mattress are from his own injuries, which LE may suspect happened during the murders. If he has evidence of recently healed cuts, it still is useful evidence. moo

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/search%20warrant%20for%20bryan%20kohberger%20apartment/ddb059f6cc8e24c1/full.pdf

If it's blood, it could be his own from injuries sustained during the slaughter ?
Still incriminating.

I work for one of the stores listed and we have cameras above each register. Our records can also pull up any and every transaction, whether it be card or cash. Our cameras are as sophisticated as any LV Casino. Rest assured!!
Especially if his DNA is under one of the victim’s fingernails. I hope they even checked his scalp.

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615789937206644736

 

[Sundog]

This was curious, right? They did not collect sheets or pillow cases at all. Did he not use sheets? Did he bring them to his parents' in PA to launder? Did he get rid of them for some reason? Hmm...

Maybe the sheets and pillowcases were there but had nothing on them, but when LE removed them, they found the reddish/brown stains on the pillow itself and on the mattress cover.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Wednesday Idioms/Quote(s) of The Day:

As a wise person (who had earned an actual PhD) I once knew was "wont to say" in response to excuses for "poor performance":

"No one is perfect. And you're a perfect example of that."

IMO, BK "did the bare minimum" anyone somewhat educated in "standard tactics criminals use to try to evade LE and pay for their crimes" would do to try to keep from getting caught, but he was "no Einstein", and maybe he should have "used his noodle" for better things.

And as a wise person I once knew was also "wont to say" when that "poor performance" led to consequences that were well deserved:

Smells like "your goose is cooked", mister.

MOO

 

[Sundog]

It's possible the animal hair belongs to one of the family dogs in PA. His dad flew out to drive back with him and very easily could have had a bit of dog hair on his clothing. There's a virtual tour of those apartments on the WSU website that may show the flooring.

jmo

If BK had a vacuum cleaner, as the Return of Service document says, then the apartment is most likely carpeted.

 

[hopewell]

Probably already said, but not an impressive list of things seized at his apartment. I've seen a lot of hubbub about the stained mattress and pillows, but those kinds of stains tend to appear on their own with prolonged use.

My opinion.