ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 67

[r3d-ros3]

I thought I read that the search warrant included looking for shoes with a diamond sole pattern. IIRC.

I think that's right, and they should be looking for them, but they were not on the list of items recovered.

 

[10ofRods]

Thank you @Nila Aella, @ray9898 and @NyxNY for your replies, especially the clarification about it being only a latent print.

I finally read the Airmail article by Blum, linked several threads ago, which describes a "cluster of young people" already present by the time LE arrived. So multiple people could have stepped in some blood there, or, since this seems to have been a party house, it could be anyone's really.
I don't understand the part where Blum says the survivors called their friends after they "found it impossible to rouse their roommates". Weird way to put it considering how obvious the roommates' condition must have been. Perhaps he is just extrapolating that from the 911 "unconscious" terminology?
Hopefully the print will still be a helpful element in spite of it only being a latent one and all these other people coming over to the house before LE.
Sorry if all this has been said before! I am very late to this topic and will try to read a lot more before I post any more questions!

But we have no clue what they saw. Early reports said that the roommates could not get Xana's door open. They were calling and texting, but with no response (and could hear the phone ringing inside the room). They freaked out and called friends/family to come over.

It's not like they saw a big pool of blood. There's still doubt that either Dylan or Bethany went to the third floor. When police arrive, the two survivors are OUTSIDE and everyone standing outside knows about the deaths of Xana and Ethan (because the door was opened by some of the people who came over).

When the girls called their friends, they were probably still thinking Xana was simply unconscious. No one's mind would go to "murder scene" if they couldn't get inside the bedroom.

THe "impossible to rouse" refers, IMO, to them calling through the door and phoning.

So it's not clear at all how "obvious" everything was. I believe the "unconscious" person referred to by the young man who finally took over the 911 call was one of the survivors, who had fainted.

We do not know how many people went into the house. We do know that at least one person came right away (I believe there were 3, both within very close distances to the house) and helped open the door.

No matter how many people walked on top of the latent print, it was still there (and presumably was written in the blood of victims). Anyone else walking through pooled blood would leave non-latent prints (at least initially) and would give their shoe prints to investigators to be ruled out. It's not at all uncommon for other humans to be inside a murder scene, as many people are killed at home and their families are actually right there.

 

[JenniD]

Was included in items to look for. See full request posted above

I think that's right, and they should be looking for them, but they were not on the list of items recovered.was

 

[Mad Hettie]

Agreed. Very disappointed that not much was taken (plumbing, etc). I really don't get it.

Oh, and I was wrong about the apartments - they do have very low pile (ugly) carpeting that looks to my eye like laminate but is some kind of indoor-outdoor style (seen in the pictures on the WSU housing site - but I had to read the description to find that there's carpeting at all in the bedroom and living room).

Also, looks like they have to rent their furniture. So...he is wasn't subletting, I assume that bed and mattress were...rented?

That area is rich in thrift stores. I don't know if the Pullman Goodwill sells new mattress sets on the cheap, but the one in my area does. There's even a WSU surplus for computers, TVs, book shelves (I saw all this on a google search). With all those second hand shops, it looks like a killer place to shop.

(just waiting for my laugh track here)

 

[Boxer]

you guys, they found a glove and a bloody pillow

Police find 'blood' on items in apartment of suspected Idaho killer

Unsealed court documents reveal that police investigating the murder of four University of Idaho students discovered several 'blood stains' in suspected killer Bryan Kohberger 's apartment.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Seems like blood would be dried those many hours later that he returned to his apartment.

 

[r3d-ros3]

Was included in items to look for. See full request posted above

I understand that and read the warrant, my earlier point was just that a pair of shoes (Vans or otherwise) were not recovered from the apartment per the warrant, meaning they have yet to find them.

 

[wary]

Which is odd because in the PCA it says Xana’s door was open, cop saw her from the hallway. So either killer left her door open or one of the roommates opened it.

Or LE opened it. The officer who wrote the PCA arrived at about 4:00 pm, nearly 4 hours after the first officers arrived on the scene. The writer describes being shown through the house by another officer already on the scene.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

<snipped/BBM for focus>

What was the trigger for acting on that night?

IMO, in BK's case, he had to/had planned to commit the murders in the early hours of "the 13TH" of the month, and had to go through with it no matter what.

<modsnip - no link/no post>

JMOO

 

[Ccging]

Correct. However, that was Brett Payne’s (is he homicide? I don’t know) statement. Second paragraph says he entered the house at 4:00, and then describes what he saw upon entering the house. The 911 call was made around 12:00? I sure would like to see the statements of the initial responding officers 4 hours prior to him entering. Perhaps, IMO, responding officers were able to get into the rooms prior to Payne getting there.

Good point, I would hope somewhere there is a statement from LE or a first responder that was actually first on the scene.

 

[Aquarian]

Just missing "google how to get away with a mass murder"

He hadnt met the guy in Massachusetts yet

 

[10ofRods]

He managed to kill four young people, including a man his size. I agree that his prep & cleanup are looking bad if suspicious items become significant evidence.

It's terribly sad the part he got right were the murders. I don't really think he was trying to be a master criminal but if he was, his lack of organizational skills or other decompensating parts of his mental faculties made success tenuous at best.

What was the trigger for acting on that night?

Is he already writing his book?

I'd love to see his mental health eval when he was first jailed.

MOO

I would love to see it now! It's now one week since Bryan got out of the jail cell to go to court - for the last time, I suppose, until June. He looked wan and scared last week. This is not going the way he expected. I believe he's still a high suicide risk and is the type who can play normal very well, disguising his actual intentions.

This is a man who was a regular runner, we've been told. Liked boxing and kickboxing. Drove around in his car, went on hikes, went to school and was on his computer a lot. Now he gets to be in a cell 23 hours a day. To my knowledge, he's not actually in solitary, but has a single cell (as many prisoners do). Maybe he's slightly segregated from the rest or gets separate yard time from everyone else. Not sure if he can bring books back to his cell or if they even allow him a pencil.

This NewsNation video says that the cells and beds are "too short" for a 6 foot tall man. Each cell looks out into a hallway, where people would be passing by and prisoners go to a common area to eat (just steps away). Not sure if he eats alone. He's in the maximum security section, no doubt. But he still has a window where he can stand to watch passersby. It does indeed look really claustrophobic:

 

[gliving]

1 Walmart receipt with one Dickies tag
2 Marshalls receipts

I wonder if he was saving the receipts for tax purposes. Example: When I had to buy scrubs, stethoscope, etc as a college student, it was tax deductible.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

If it's a bloody glove I don't want to know!

No worries, his hands are large but it is nitrile, so it won't react to blood the way leather does.

 

[Copper107]

The PCA is a hop skip and a jump away from Discovery. There's very little to withhold at this point and time, especially if they think they have their guy.

Information only the perp would know is leveraged during interrogations or confessions. For the latter when a confessor might come seemingly out of nowhere. We are past that.

So while there's truth to the prosecution hold back on the PCA for gamesmanship and making the defense wait until for Discovery (assisted by the very little needed for a PCA).... An offender's inside knowledge is less of a factor this late in the game.

That's true, but I was basing my comments on the fluid situation at the time. Moving forward though, IMO, you never know when an offender's inside knowledge can trip him up.

I understand what you're saying but they still have to protect certain information until discovery. Isn't that the whole point?

 

[formerlyme]

I understand that and read the warrant, my earlier point was just that a pair of shoes (Vans or otherwise) were not recovered from the apartment per the warrant, meaning they have yet to find them.

View attachment 396199

I saw mention of the roku stick earlier, I do know you can watch youtube videos on it maybe they are looking through that.

 

[eloquence]

I think they can and will, if they are at all able. They'll try to show that LE investigated BK thoroughly and found no fibers at his home to connect him (incriminate him). What is your word for the opposite of "incriminate"?

Also, on a different topic, there's no mention of them taking plumbing items out of the apartment, which concerns and exasperates me. Perhaps this warrant was re-served at some point, but really, they should have taken the sink trap/U pipe and the shower drain should have been removed and taken to lab.

If all of that was done and there was absolutely no evidence of victim DNA in that apartment, that helps the defense quite a bit. IMO.

IMO this might be true if they searched his apartment a day or two after, but 7 weeks after the murder I'd say unlikely the shower drain has any evidence. Fibers could have been vacuumed up and long thrown away at this point. Obviously helps the prosecution if they find evidence, but it was such a length of time I don't think the defense has some huge smoking gun if no evidence is left.

It's sounding more and more like digital evidence will be big here. He wasn't too crafty in other places.. wonder what he googled that could be incriminating. He was probably the only guy searching up "Moscow ID murders" at 9am on 11/13 (MOO)

 

[WingsOverTX]

Search warrant details what investigators found in Moscow murder suspect's apartment

Among the items police found are multiple hair strands, a nitrile-type black glove and two reddish-brown stained cuts from an uncased pillow.

www.krem.com

The search warrant was expected to remain sealed until March 1, 2023, and Whitman County estimated the murder investigation would come to a close within two months. However, the motion to unseal the search warrant said the release of the "extensive" probable cause affidavit has alleviated the need for the warrant to be sealed.

Can someone help me out here? Who made the motion to unseal the search warrant? If the PCA was considered extensive, why did they seal the warrant in the first place? I really am in the dark half the time, trying to come up to speed on the legalities in these cases.

Well, if you are trying to apply logic to these releases, good luck! I think any "bone they throw to dog" is great whether it makes sense according to legal or other expectations or not.

There is a bias in criminal cases to use fear-based language to withhold documents that should be public (withholding public documents requires a legal defense of some kind).

Once released, we are often left deflated by how those documents are not inflammatory or do not appear to obstruct justice at any point in time (from a layperson's POV).

And so it goes....

Someday maybe more states will allow sunshine to guide these matters, as Florida does.

The public's right to know is supposed to have great weight in release of documents. Too often, there is a fight to have them released. Too often, they are not released in anything close to a timely manner.

And so it goes....

JMHO

 

[Honeybirdette]

How does the discovery work? Is the defense entitled to everything they have at that moment in time? Or is anything they find even after the date the discover was filed need to be sent over too?
Can the prosecution hold anything back? Keep any cards to their chest or do they have to send everything ?

 

[r3d-ros3]

I saw mention of the roku stick earlier, I do know you can watch youtube videos on it maybe they are looking through that.

Data from the Roku Stick will show data from any streaming platforms he might have subscribed to / used on his TV (including YouTube), potentially a Spotify account... there are a ton of apps you can have on that kind of device, and as another user mentioned, it also connects to Bluetooth which could be important. I personally see it as a device that is first and foremost about streaming media (TV, movies, and music), but I think they can do a lot more. Regardless, it might be interesting to see what he was streaming.

 

[10ofRods]

I would like to know the answer to that myself. And, I read through the whole thing and I can't figure out why the prosecution would think it would reflect badly on them (paraphrase) or cause the investigation to come to a halt.

Any thoughts, anyone?

One answer is that there are two different jurisdictions. PCA was sealed in Latah County (initially) and the search warrant was given in a Washington county (Whitman). Two different states, two different judges, two different courts, two different approaches to sealing evidence.

I have no idea why the prosecution is so concerned about sealing things, but assume it's because some of the evidence will be really horrifying. There appears to be no massive amounts of bloody evidence or terrible pictures of victims in BK's apartment, so perhaps that judge was fine with it being unsealed.