ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #67

[pizzaman12]

Do we know if it's the prosecution or the defense that's issued these subpoenas? I think subpoena duces tecum is a request for documents in the possession of the named individual to be produced, IIRC.

Looks like JA filed. Makes sense to me as this is a different style of filings we've seen over the last almost 3 years.

 

[longtimereader]

I think there is a lot of wisdom and insight in their comments.

This is from their interview with East Idaho News:

“Thank goodness he did deny that. It just seemed like an off-the-wall kind of request,” Kay Woodcock said. “I think Lori wanted to simply see Chad in person and maybe figure out if she’s going to turn on him. There has to be more to do it than just them wanting to meet and strategize.”

The Woodcocks believe Chad’s defense involves turning against Lori. As far as EastIdahoNews.com could tell, he never looked at his wife during the two-and-a-half-hour court hearing Thursday but Lori was seen glancing Chad’s direction several times.

“Lori – you’re fixing to be thrown totally under the bus,” Larry Woodcock said. “In fact, you’re not going to get thrown under a bus – you’re going got get thrown under a steamroller. Chad is not your friend, his attorney is not your friend and I truly believe they are going to throw her under the bus the moment the case opens.”

 

[longtimereader]

I think there is a lot of wisdom and insight in their comments.

This is from their interview with East Idaho News:

“Thank goodness he did deny that. It just seemed like an off-the-wall kind of request,” Kay Woodcock said. “I think Lori wanted to simply see Chad in person and maybe figure out if she’s going to turn on him. There has to be more to do it than just them wanting to meet and strategize.”

The Woodcocks believe Chad’s defense involves turning against Lori. As far as EastIdahoNews.com could tell, he never looked at his wife during the two-and-a-half-hour court hearing Thursday but Lori was seen glancing Chad’s direction several times.

“Lori – you’re fixing to be thrown totally under the bus,” Larry Woodcock said. “In fact, you’re not going to get thrown under a bus – you’re going got get thrown under a steamroller. Chad is not your friend, his attorney is not your friend and I truly believe they are going to throw her under the bus the moment the case opens.”

 

[Tortoise]

Looks like JA filed. Makes sense to me as this is a different style of filings we've seen over the last almost 3 years.

Thanks. Probably trying to build mitigation, I would think.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Attorneys for Lori Vallow Daybell and Chad Daybell presented several requests to 7th District Judge Steven Boyce during a motion hearing today, including that the trial be delayed until 2024 — a request from Chad Daybell’s attorneys — and that the death penalty be taken off the table — a request from Lori Vallow Daybell’s lawyers.

The judge refused some of the motions, like delaying the trial, and he said he would issue written rulings later on the others, EastIdahoNews.com reported.

A trial in the case is set to begin April 3 and last up to 10 weeks.

Idaho judge says no in-person meetings for couple’s triple murder case

ST. ANTHONY, Idaho >> An Idaho judge says a couple accused in a bizarre triple murder case will not be allowed to meet face-to-face to talk about strategy before they stand trial in April.

www.staradvertiser.com

 

[pizzaman12]

 

[pizzaman12]

 

[Ruminations]

I'm also puzzled by the document delay... 'seems as if the prosecution would have handed everything over by now.

It was explained by Prior in the hearing. It's not that the prosecution hasn't turned it over. It's that the lab hasn't finished with the DNA it started with originally, let alone the new hair found. Prior says he needs time once that's done to process the information, including possibly doing testing by a lab hired by the defense.

Why that should bring him to April 2024 is not clear to me, but fair enough that he does not want the lab work the day before trial.

The judge denied the extension but also agreed that one could be necessary if the results come in too late. I found that to be a reasonable ruling.

MOO

 

[pizzaman12]

It was explained by Prior in the hearing. It's not that the prosecution hasn't turned it over. It's that the lab hasn't finished with the DNA it started with originally, let alone the new hair found. Prior says he needs time once that's done to process the information, including possibly doing testing by a lab hired by the defense.

Why that should bring him to April 2024 is not clear to me, but fair enough that he does not want the lab work the day before trial.

The judge denied the extension but also agreed that one could be necessary if the results come in too late. I found that to be a reasonable ruling.

MOO

It seems that would create a dilemma should it not be done given that one has waived their right to a speedy trial and the other hasn't. There is still DNA evidence not processed in the Alex Murdaugh case and that could potentially be going to trial soon.

I still think these cases should have been severed to prevent the possibility of LV walking free over a technicality. This case has turned into a complete circus

 

[fred&edna]

It was explained by Prior in the hearing. It's not that the prosecution hasn't turned it over. It's that the lab hasn't finished with the DNA it started with originally, let alone the new hair found. Prior says he needs time once that's done to process the information, including possibly doing testing by a lab hired by the defense.

Why that should bring him to April 2024 is not clear to me, but fair enough that he does not want the lab work the day before trial.

The judge denied the extension but also agreed that one could be necessary if the results come in too late. I found that to be a reasonable ruling.

MOO

Aha! Now I get it! Thank you so much for explaining!

 

[Ruminations]

It seems that would create a dilemma should it not be done given that one has waived their right to a speedy trial and the other hasn't. There is still DNA evidence not processed in the Alex Murdaugh case and that could potentially be going to trial soon.

I still think these cases should have been severed to prevent the possibility of LV walking free over a technicality. This case has turned into a complete circus

The judge acknowledged the possibility of severance if it comes down to that, as I heard it. Apparently he does not want to jump the gun on that.

I don't imagine that either of the living defendants are less guilty than the other. Therefore, I hope the trials don't get severed. I feel that will give Chad an advantage he won't have if they are tried together.

Apparently Chad is baffled that he is incarcerated and he appears to think whatever is stuck to the duct tape has the potential to support his defense. I understand that I am not on the jury, and that I don't have access to all the evidence. Yet from the information I have seen it is my opinion that Chad and Lori are equally guilty.

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

We all know what they're going to say anyway.

His hair in the grave? Fell off his lover's clothing, or came from her carpet, or his yard, or whatever. LDI defence.

Lori's hair in the grave? LDI defence.

Spare us and destroy the hair, please.

 

[pizzaman12]

The judge acknowledged the possibility of severance if it comes down to that, as I heard it. Apparently he does not want to jump the gun on that.

I don't imagine that either of the living defendants are less guilty than the other. Therefore, I hope the trials don't get severed. I feel that will give Chad an advantage he won't have if they are tried together.

Apparently Chad is baffled that he is incarcerated and he appears to think whatever is stuck to the duct tape has the potential to support his defense. I understand that I am not on the jury, and that I don't have access to all the evidence. Yet from the information I have seen it is my opinion that Chad and Lori are equally guilty.

MOO

Whether he ultimately decides to sever the cases does not remedy LV being denied her constitutional right to a speedy trial is my main concern. Will his ruling hold up in appeals? I don't know but I think there's little doubt it will be challenged.

I too think CD would benefit more from a severance. However, beyond JJ & Tylee, there is still TD and we don't know the full details of the autopsy. (only what the Daybell children stated they were told)

I think they're both guilty and will both be found guilty. However, mistakes and failure to follow the laws certainly open up potential issues. Barry Morphew comes to mind

 

[Ruminations]

We all know what they're going to say anyway.

His hair in the grave? Fell off his lover's clothing, or came from her carpet, or his yard, or whatever. LDI defence.

Lori's hair in the grave? LDI defence.

Spare us and destroy the hair, please.

It's not only the hair. It's stuff sent to the lab from JJ's body before the hair was found.

I agree the hair will be at BEST ho-hum. The suspects were with one another quite a lot. If it was picked up from someone else they associated with any of the accused and somehow made its way into JJ's body bag- and that someone else has no DNA profile on file we can have a mess.

A Jon-Benet mess.

So let's hope the hair doesn't have a profile; I believe it needs to be plucked not broken to have one. Plucked is more likely in a struggle, of course. Or it had a profile that can be matched to someone.

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder why this DNA evidence is only relevant to Chad and not Lori.

 

[Laughing]

I wonder why this DNA evidence is only relevant to Chad and not Lori.

The hair is natural color perhaps?

 

[Ruminations]

I wonder why this DNA evidence is only relevant to Chad and not Lori.

Only when the lab work is done will we know how relevant the DNA information is to each case. It seems to me that many finding would be not much help. The best case scenario is that some finding contradicts a statement or story, but as far as I know neither Chad nor lori have given detailed relevant testimony at this point. So what finding could be interesting?

I can think of plenty that would be ho-hum as you put it. And some that would be interesting. Lori's or Alex's skin under JJ's fingernails? Meh- could be from dealing with behaviors like the alleged cabinet-climb. Chad's? he could just say the zombie scratched him while he was giving a blessing or something, less credible but not all that for the standard of proof needed.

I think almost all hair, even trapped in duct tape, could be explained as hair that was previously transferred to the real murderer(s) by accident or planted by the devious framers of Chad. A significant amount apparently plucked from a suspects head stuck to tape, as if it flew into the sticky part by accident and was plucked out as it was wrapped around a child suggests struggling with a live child and trying to manage restraining with duct tape. (sorry! What an awful thought!) But I'm not sure if would be slam dunk unless it is a lot and accompanied by finger prints and creased tape.

On that, I do wonder how neatly the baby was wrapped. I hope the murderers were just afraid he would come back to life rather than restraining him alive.

Finger prints on the sticky side of skin gathered when the tape accidentally stuck to the murderer(s) and had to be pealed off and put on the victim could be interesting.

Fibers from something in Lori's apt stuck to the tape could put in doubt that the killing occurred in Alex's apartment.

Bite marks and saliva on tape would be awesome if they were Chad's because it would be hard to claim a frame. Hmmm. "Lori made me tear up strips of tape she needed to delint her sweaters. She had just had her nails done. I had no idea that she and Alex were fixing to frame me for murder." But I don't even know if dried saliva gives a profile. (Does it? Does anyone know?)

I have a feeling that there may be evidence collected that makes it clear that Alex's apt was the scene of at least one murder. Or, Lori is very confident that both apartments were scrubbed so well Lori felt claiming killing was in Alex's apartment could not be refuted.

I also have a feeling that Gibb became afraid of her DNA about the place and made sure to place herself in Lori's bedroom, wriggling her doorknob, and in the downstairs bathroom which she even mentioned was strange because it was rarely used.

(She loved to try to recall things by saying if they were typical or not, then adding that she couldn't remember on the relevant date. Like: Lori typically changed her clothes every day, but I can't remember if she had changed the overnight JJ was murdered-and I touched her doorknob, as you know. However, it stood out to me that the downstairs bathroom mention seemed to be first recalled, and second evaluated for typicalness. Could be nothing. But I am half expecting something coming out about that bathroom.

It will be interesting if the victims'DNA show up where it hard to explain: blood on a saw? Some evidence of victims being in a hiding place dead rather than where they woukd ordinarily be alive. <modsnip>

MOO. Can't wait for the trial. I can't imagine what the wait is like for the many people close to the victims.

 

[indicolite22]

I think they have plenty more evidence against L&C that we don't know about yet even without the untested DNA samples. That's what Nate Eaton alluded to a few times before.

I wonder how are they going to pin Tammy's murder on Chad if she died of asphyxiation and no drugs/poison were found in her system. Their children don't seem to think asphyxiation is a big deal or they don't believe it.

 

[mickey2942]

The charge in Arizona against LVD almost seems to be just an "add on", that ship seemed to sail as soon as LEO let AC and LVD go.

It seemed crazy and scary to me, that LVD, AC, and Tylee had a story, that Charles Vallow was "attacking" AC, he had a tiny scratch, and that merited lethal force?! Like, he couldn't have left, or had LVD call "911"? The "only" option was to shoot Charles Vallow? LEO dropped the ball in Arizona.

If LVD gets off in Idaho, (which I don't think will happen), I really don't see a case against her in Arizona. She can say "AC did it, he was defending himself". No charges at the time...what more evidence does LEO have that they didn't have at the time?! Conspiracy? I don't see it.

 

[Niner]

The charge in Arizona against LVD almost seems to be just an "add on", that ship seemed to sail as soon as LEO let AC and LVD go.

It seemed crazy and scary to me, that LVD, AC, and Tylee had a story, that Charles Vallow was "attacking" AC, he had a tiny scratch, and that merited lethal force?! Like, he couldn't have left, or had LVD call "911"? The "only" option was to shoot Charles Vallow? LEO dropped the ball in Arizona.

If LVD gets off in Idaho, (which I don't think will happen), I really don't see a case against her in Arizona. She can say "AC did it, he was defending himself". No charges at the time...what more evidence does LEO have that they didn't have at the time?! Conspiracy? I don't see it.

Nothing is appearing in Arizona for LVD. It has never come up when I searched. She does have charges in Madison County though.

Here is what I have on that one:

August 17, 2021:
*Pretrial Conference Hearing-VACATED! (Madison County) (@ 10am MT) - ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen 9/23/19 & Tylee on 9/9/19, Rexburg; found 6/9/20 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) –*–*Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 48) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii) charged (2/20/20) & arraigned (3/6/20) with 2 counts of felony desertion & nonsupport of dependent children (<3 charges dismissed 7/2/20), amended (7/2/20) charged with resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. $5M bond. Bond reduced (3/6/20) to $1M. Bond reduced (7/17/20) to $150K. Madison County #CR-33-20-0302
Madison County: Trial was set to begin on 1/25/21 was reset to 8/30/21 was vacated.
Court info from 7/2/20 thru 7/17/20 reference post #799 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...6-rexburg-sept-2019-arrests-54.542223/page-40
9/21/20 Update: Defense attorney Mark Means filed 2 motions in Lori's case in Madison County: 1) motion for transfer & joinder with her case in Fremont County and 2) motion for venue change. Pretrial hearing on 1/4/21. Trial set to begin on 1/25/21.
1/4/21 Update: Hearing was held regarding the charge of obstructing LE. Pretrial conference hearing on 8/17/21 @ 10am & trial has been reset to 8/30/21 thru 9/3/21 before Judge Mallard. 5/28/21: Order staying case. Hearings have NOT been cancelled yet as of 8/14/21. 8/17/21 Update: Pretrial conference hearing on 8/17/21 has been vacated.