ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 68

[zoomom2]

You are right: the unidentified suspect sample on the button of sheath was matched via comparing it to a sample of MR Kohneberger Senior's dna (BK Dad). The BK Dad sample was taken from the Family's PA resident trash can on 27 Dec.and matched with the suspect sheath button sample on 28th December.

P18, Probable Cause Affadavit:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

I don't know if that means they found no BK dna in the 27 december trash from PA. All I would surmise is that they compared a sample that they did recover and that matched witht suspect sample in such a way as to show that the suspect sample was BK's.MOO

Others may have a more informed view than mine on how dna is sampled and collected from trash, amounts needed and more informed speculations as to why a BK dad sample was used for the match and not a bk sample. Perhaps BK had simply not left any dna on that trash bag or any of that 27 December trash. IDK MOO

Any family match was good. They were just tightening the circle of possible suspects, (using the result outcome as just another investigative tool.) Think about it- what if the trash dna came up as impossible to be related to what was found on the sheath? Could tell LE that they were on the wrong track with their investigation. JMO (Or of course that Dad wasn't his Dad, but I don't want to get off into the weeds here.)

 

[acutename]

"The defense is going to have a field day with ping information as well as video surveillance because there's going to be disparities [in] time frames ... both the defense and the prosecution are going to have experts in this area," Coffindaffer said. "It's gonna come down to a battle of the experts on this point and the jury is gonna have to make a decision whether they believe the prosecution's point of view or the defense's point of view."

New detail in Bryan Kohberger case gives defense room to fuel doubt

"It's gonna come down to a battle of the experts," former FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer told Newsweek about Kohberger's trial.

www.newsweek.com

seems to me, IMO, that if the cameras are off as far as time, they can go out and check them- both sides can look at the settings and determine the time error if there is one.

 

[Lilly b]

There is (or at least was a few years ago), an entire department in the FBI that does shoe print analysis. I assume they’re helping or already helped LE with identification of the latent print.

In another case I followed, a key piece of evidence was identifying a bloody shoe print (Hush Puppy certain model, size 12), and connecting it to a purchase made by the defendant at DSW. Of course the shoes were missing (defendant said they were “donated to Goodwill” of course). (There was interestingly, also a decoy bloody shoe print to throw off investigators IMO, and this guy wasn’t a criminology student.)

This is an old article but describes the shoe department at the FBI. It’s amazing what they can do. The Forensic Analysis of Footwear Impression Evidence

There was something I saw the other night, about foot wear, it was called solesearch

 

[pittsburghgirl]

So do we know for a fact there was a connection between BK and the victims? I know there was talk of him messaging one of the victims and about him possibly eating at the Mad Greek where two of them worked. But there is so much speculation being thrown around it's hard to tell what is fact and what is rumor.

I'm not sure an Instagram message that may have never been seen by the victim creates a "connection." I'm not even sure BK did message any or all of the women. We have no proof that he meet either of the two women working in the restaurant that offers vegan options. Lots of rumor, speculations and MOOing but few facts.

 

[CSIDreamer]

BBM: AFAIK, the match had not already been made before he (BK) had left Pullman in mid December. A sample of Mr Kohenberg Senior's dna was taken from PA Trash Can on 27 December. And matched to the sheath data on 28th December. THe relevant quote from the Probable Cause Affadavit is below.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

Probable Cause Affadavit P18 BBM

"On December 27, 2022, Pennsylvania Agents recovered the trash from the Kohberger family residence located in Albrightsville, PA. That evidence was sent to the Idaho State Lab for testing. On December 28,2022, the Idaho State Lab reported that a DNA profile obtained from the trash and the DNA profile obtained from the sheath, identified a male as not being excluded as the bioiogical father of Suspect Profile. At least 99.9998% of the male population would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of being the suspect's biological father."

EBM: spelling, quote format.

Complete agreement here. Had they obtained his dad's dna before he left Pullman, he would have been arrested. There was zero reason to let him drive cross country if they had what they needed. JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Well, at least they couldn't determine them before moving his body from its initial position (a decision that gets made at some point in the investigation but probably not by 4 pm on Sunday).

I hope I didn't imply YOU were debating - but there does seem to be some concern about the use of these various terms.

I think Ethan was found in the narrow area between the bed and the wall, personally, which is why his injuries were not as visible. I also think that Xana is the only victim whose blood BK stepped into, but I don't hold that with 99% certainty. It's also possible that Kaylee's injuries resulted in blood on one of his shoes. All of this is known by LE at this time, who surely saw at least a couple of bloody diamond pattern foot prints, as there were latent prints.

This trial will be very interesting in terms of the forensics.

 

[jepop]

Any family match was good. They were just tightening the circle of possible suspects, (using the result outcome as just another investigative tool.) Think about it- what if the trash dna came up as impossible to be related to what was found on the sheath? Could tell LE that they were on the wrong track with their investigation. JMO (Or of course that Dad wasn't his Dad, but I don't want to get off into the weeds here.)

I just don't want to overstep, as I don't know anything about dna, all I know is that the match was not made until 28th December because that information is explicitly stated in the PCA. So I know nothing about the process of how the 27 Dec trash from PA was processed to collect dna samples to match against the suspect sample.

 

[jepop]

Complete agreement here. Had they obtained his dad's dna before he left Pullman, he would have been arrested. There was zero reason to let him drive cross country if they had what they needed. JMO

I haven't speculated on that, all I know is that the match was not made until 28 December as per my post.

 

[acutename]

You make an excellent point about the tidying up part. I was pretty flabbergasted by what was collected at his apartment. (From seeing him during the "perp walk" shortly after his hearing in PA, he looked extremely clean cut so I figured he was a neat freak!) Of course, the stained pillow / mattress cover could have easily been covered up with a blanket so that no one could see them.

they could have been folded up in a duffle bag and put in a bottom drawer- I think people imagine them out on the bed, but I am sure that the search warrant team looked everywhere and was super thorough IMO

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1616549342642569216

 

[maskedwoman]

I'm not sure an Instagram message that may have never been seen by the victim creates a "connection." I'm not even sure BK did message any or all of the women. We have no proof that he meet either of the two women working in the restaurant that offers vegan options. Lots of rumor, speculations and MOOing but few facts.

I don't think it would create a "connection" between normal adults. Between an unsuspecting young lady and someone who's idea of breaking the ice is to ask people where they live? He might certainly think so. Assuming, of course, that it really was BK who did the messaging. I'm reserving judgment on that for now. MOOooo

 

[Walela]

I noticed when looking at the Pullman apartment return inventory it says Return of Service Warrant (Residence and Storage Closet). And, under Items Seized it says All seized from Residence and stored at WSU PD. Where is a storage closet listed on the search warrant? The application for search warrant has (Residence) listed in the upper right of the page and gives a very clear description of the residence but says nothing about a storage closet. Looking at the description of the Steptoe apartments on the WSU website, it says extra storage space is provided with individual storage lockers next to the laundry rooms. Is this extra storage area what is referenced as a storage closet and wouldn't it need to be listed on the application for the warrant? By adding "storage closet" to the return inventory does that mean they searched it also and took something from it or the searched it and didn't take anything from it? I can't imagine they are referring to the office at as a storage closet since it is clearly identified in the warrant as office along with its location. Looking at the floor plan of the 1 bedroom, there are closets within the apartment but if something came from one of those closets wouldn't that still be considered the residence? Anyone have any ideas about this?
jmo

 

[want2solveit]

Only mentioned by an unnamed former employee, with, apparently, nothing to back up the claim.

If you were a former employee, would you want to be dragged into this mess, not knowing if there could be danger to yourself, , or might you offer what you knew anonymously, to be a good citizen?<modsnip - rumor>

I'm having a really hard time with the idea that one of the four victims was targeted and the other three were collateral damage. I've read all the scenarios with X seeing him, running to get E, etc., but it still doesn't seem likely to me. He had a relatively easy escape route via the third floor or kitchen, so was it truly necessary to kill X and E in X's room? IDK...I feel like there is an element to this story that we have not heard about yet.

ETA: I also don't buy that he targeted both M and X (from MG). JMO. That just doesn't seem plausible, although I get that a person like this doesn't think in a logical way...

Do yo think he was eliminating witnesses he thought could identify him?

Any family match was good. They were just tightening the circle of possible suspects, (using the result outcome as just another investigative tool.) Think about it- what if the trash dna came up as impossible to be related to what was found on the sheath? Could tell LE that they were on the wrong track with their investigation. JMO (Or of course that Dad wasn't his Dad, but I don't want to get off into the weeds here.)

They said the match between Bk and his dad by dna, was 99.8 percent% accurate.

I'm not sure an Instagram message that may have never been seen by the victim creates a "connection." I'm not even sure BK did message any or all of the women. We have no proof that he meet either of the two women working in the restaurant that offers vegan options. Lots of rumor, speculations and MOOing but few facts.

 

[Glimma0927]

I don't know if that's accurate. I think disposing of incriminating evidence typically happens fairly quickly after the crime. Not necessarily in a municipal trash bin, but disposing of it in some manner.

I can't imagine BK didn't clean the interior of his car thoroughly within a day or so of the murders. Unless of course, he's so narcissistic that he really thought he would never be suspected. But, when the stories about the white Elantra came out, you'd think if he hadn't cleaned it yet--he would then.

Of course that's all MOO and second-guessing a killer.

I think it would have been more suspicious to see him cleaning out a white Elantra in the parking lot of his student housing, imho, especially after the public announcement about the Elantra. Everyone in the Pullman/Moscow area would have been on the lookout for something like that. IF he were smart, he would have done it right away (as soon as he realized the sheath was missing?) but since he was so careless about other aspects of committing his crime, I have my doubts that his coverup after the fact was done well enough to throw off LE. MOO.

 

[Which_pancake]

I haven't speculated on that, all I know is that the match was not made until 28 December as per my post.

Jumping off your post to say I remember back on the thread where we were tracking the plane as it flew BK from PA to ID, someone noticed that the same PA state police plane had made a trip to ID and back December 27. I wonder if that was the trash DNA sample being flown to the ID lab?

Not sure if I'm doing this right, but here is the relevant post.

 

[Which_pancake]

I noticed when looking at the Pullman apartment return inventory it says Return of Service Warrant (Residence and Storage Closet). And, under Items Seized it says All seized from Residence and stored at WSU PD. Where is a storage closet listed on the search warrant? The application for search warrant has (Residence) listed in the upper right of the page and gives a very clear description of the residence but says nothing about a storage closet. Looking at the description of the Steptoe apartments on the WSU website, it says extra storage space is provided with individual storage lockers next to the laundry rooms. Is this extra storage area what is referenced as a storage closet and wouldn't it need to be listed on the application for the warrant? By adding "storage closet" to the return inventory does that mean they searched it also and took something from it or the searched it and didn't take anything from it? I can't imagine they are referring to the office at as a storage closet since it is clearly identified in the warrant as office along with its location. Looking at the floor plan of the 1 bedroom, there are closets within the apartment but if something came from one of those closets wouldn't that still be considered the residence? Anyone have any ideas about this?
jmo

I did once live in an apartment that had an individual locked storage space in the basement of the building. The key to our front door also opened the storage area. It seems like it could be considered a part of the same 'residence' if it was on the same premises and was for the sole use of the resident of his apartment. MOO

 

[jepop]

Jumping off your post to say I remember back on the thread where we were tracking the plane as it flew BK from PA to ID, someone noticed that the same PA state police plane had made a trip to ID and back December 27. I wonder if that was the trash DNA sample being flown to the ID lab?

Not sure if I'm doing this right, but here is the relevant post.

Yes, I vaguely recall that. Could have been.

 

[PrairieWind]

BK and attorney think they're slick waiving the right to a speedy probable cause hearing.....ugh. A GJ can Indictment him and push things forward regardless. I hope this happens for the surviving roommates.

<snipped & BBM>
But prosecutors can undercut the procedural maneuver by seeking a grand jury indictment, which would also spare the surviving roommates from having to sit in court across from Kohberger and face cross-examination during a preliminary hearing, according to Idaho lawyer Edwina Elcox, who previously represented alleged "Cult Mom" Lori Vallow.

Bryan Kohberger case: Moscow prosecutor can sidestep stall tactic with grand jury indictment

Why do you think they are being "slick" to delay the PH?

 

[Nila Aella]

Okay, then we are agreeing and very much on the same page.

I figure that the person who walked through to describe the crime scene was not the right person to disturb the body and that they brought in specialists to do that.

I am betting on there being more bloody footprints but have always been amazed that the killer didn't track blood onto the deck at the slider. That said to me that this killer did his level best to avoid getting blood on his feet (it could have been a lot of blood, and those Vans would have had little cavities for the blood to gather in, would make for quite a few footprints if it had been a lot of blood). I'd have thought both feet would be bloody - that says a lot to me if only one foot got a little blood on it. Then we learned from SG that she was stabbed in a particular manner that's associated with less blood spurt AND it's possible that some of the victims were covered by blankets or comforters. It appears that three were on mattresses or partially on mattresses.

The killer thought this through with great attention to blood, but possibly didn't give as much attention to getting hair and fiber on his killer costume/person. I do worry that the hairs found at BK's apartment may not match to anything valuable to the case.

The no blood trail outside is perplexing to me. Especially with the revelation that they have a latent print. Of course, there are no evidence photos from the back left of the house, that area was hidden from cameras so we wouldn't see the evidence markers or the dog working back there, but still I would think they would find something on the exit concrete? JMO

The hair is something important that I haven't seen discussed. They searched and recovered hair from his apartment. Does that mean they found unknown hair in the bedrooms? Or are they looking for victim hair? Maybe both? I did notice they took 3 hairs, 9 strands (which I think means long hair), 1 animal hair. And no fibers recovered, but maybe they look for those on the mattress cover and in the vaccuum contents.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615769677598445568

 

[acutename]

I noticed when looking at the Pullman apartment return inventory it says Return of Service Warrant (Residence and Storage Closet). And, under Items Seized it says All seized from Residence and stored at WSU PD. Where is a storage closet listed on the search warrant? The application for search warrant has (Residence) listed in the upper right of the page and gives a very clear description of the residence but says nothing about a storage closet. Looking at the description of the Steptoe apartments on the WSU website, it says extra storage space is provided with individual storage lockers next to the laundry rooms. Is this extra storage area what is referenced as a storage closet and wouldn't it need to be listed on the application for the warrant? By adding "storage closet" to the return inventory does that mean they searched it also and took something from it or the searched it and didn't take anything from it? I can't imagine they are referring to the office at as a storage closet since it is clearly identified in the warrant as office along with its location. Looking at the floor plan of the 1 bedroom, there are closets within the apartment but if something came from one of those closets wouldn't that still be considered the residence? Anyone have any ideas about this?
jmo

bet they searched his storage area. It would not make sense to not search it- it may have not been used by him or maybe there was something in it. IMO I have seen storage units in apts- some are rather large- good for bicycles, skis, snow board, kayak- that you might have but not want in your living space.