ID - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 68

[girlhasnoname]

Why do you think they are being "slick" to delay the PH?

Delay, deny, deflect IMO

 

[PrairieWind]

Delay, deny, deflect IMO

I guess I am not following your argument. The Defense attorney has been on the job only a couple weeks, and is just beginning to receive what certainly is a massive amount of evidence to be reviewed. I certainly wouldn't think it is "being slick" to want to at lease look at the evidence that will be presented at a Preliminary Hearing in what could be a capital murder case. Should she go in to the hearing unprepared?

 

[acutename]

The no blood trail outside is perplexing to me. Especially with the revelation that they have a latent print. Of course, there are no evidence photos from the back left of the house, that area was hidden from cameras so we wouldn't see the evidence markers or the dog working back there, but still I would think they would find something on the exit concrete? JMO

The hair is something important that I haven't seen discussed. They searched and recovered hair from his apartment. Does that mean they found unknown hair in the bedrooms? Or are they looking for victim hair? Maybe both? I did notice they took 3 hairs, 9 strands (which I think means long hair), 1 animal hair. And no fibers recovered, but maybe they look for those on the mattress cover and in the vaccuum contents.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615769677598445568

I wonder how they knew so quickly that one hair was an "animal hair." I also looked up "hair" and "hair strand" definitions but did not find any meaningful distinction, such as whether the folicle was attached or not, etc.

 

[10ofRods]

BBM: AFAIK, the match had not already been made before he (BK) had left Pullman in mid December. A sample of Mr Kohenberg Senior's dna was taken from PA Trash Can on 27 December. And matched to the sheath data on 28th December. THe relevant quote from the Probable Cause Affadavit is below.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

Probable Cause Affadavit P18 BBM

"On December 27, 2022, Pennsylvania Agents recovered the trash from the Kohbergerfamily residence located in Albrightsville, PA. That evidence was sent to the Idaho State Lab fortesting. On December 28,2022, the
Idaho State Lab reported that a DNA profile obtained from the trash and the DNA profile obtained from the sheath, identified a male as not being excluded as the bioiogical father of Suspect Profrie. At least 99.9998% of the male population would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of being the suspect's biological father."

Then, the very fact that he had the Elantra and matched Dylan's description (and had no front plates at the time) were enough for them to conclude he should be tracked across the country. Thanks for the date on the PA trash can.

Since there are two men in the PA region with Bryan's dad's name and since the Kohbergers had moved around some, I can see why they wanted his Elantra to arrive at his parents' house - at which point they must have known they had a total slam dunk from trash DNA they were about to collect. If they arrived Dec 16-17 or thereabouts, then LE had Christmas slowdowns (Chief Fry even mentioned that) and time to set up surveillance in the Kohberger neighborhood. LE had to get a PA warrant and for that a new PCA had to be written.

Nov. 13 - LE begins to find camera evidence of a white Elantra circling 1122 King the night of the murders. More footage is gathered from Nov 14 onward, with the Elantra picked up on several cameras. A knife sheath of a type corresponding to the injuries of the deceased is found, and it has single source male DNA on its metal snap (use point).

Nov. 14 - D and B will have given initial accounts of what they saw and heard and general context for Nov 12-13. Meanwhile, in Pullman, more than one person notes (in retrospect) that BK's demeanor at school changed this week

~Nov. 18/19. BK gets a new license plate, car is now registered to WA (as required by WSU for him to qualify for further tuition reductions in the following year)

Before Nov 28, Moscow PD begins to contact regional LE about the Elantra.

~Nov 28 - WSU policeman tell Moscow PD about a white Elantra, registered to Bryan Kohberger. Student and parking records are pulled.

Nov 29-?? Moscow PD and other LE find that Kohberger is a criminology grad student from PA. They learn there is more than one Kohberger household in PA. (Presumably his university parking pass is registered to his Pullman address; the car is now registered in WA to the Pullman address; unknown what other immediate investigation Moscow PD re BK, possible they talked to colleagues and faculty in the ensuing days). Car would have changed from no front plate to possessing both plates if BK followed the law in WA.

Dec 7. Police ask for help in locating an Elantra. (I believe they already have Kohburger's name associated and are hoping for witnesses; they are also trying not to completely freak out Bryan, just jostle him). This is close to the time when students are complaining about BK's aggro behavior (both his classmates and his students) but I can't find specific days for those events (halp!)

Mid December - PCA back in Idaho is underway; results of 50 warrants are beginning to come in; BK's phone provides a better picture of where he was on Nov 12-13 but also for a time period going back far enough to pick up evidence that his phone had been near 1122 King Road, in the night (often after midnight) 12 times in the weeks before the murders.

Mid-December (articles say 12/13-14) BK's father flies to Seattle and possibly into Spokane (we don't know) and BK and dad get read for cross country trip. Family will later say this was preplanned back in August.

Dec 14-15?? BK and father drive through Idaho, into Colorado, passing through Loma, Colorado and then eastward to PA.
Dec 15. BK and dad are stopped 2 times by different police "10 minutes apart" say some articles, in Indiana. No warnings, no tickets. Speeding and tailgating.
Dec 16?. Brian and Dad arrive in Albrightsville, PA.

Later December. Moscow PD still has up on their website that they are looking for an Elantra but in late December, they change the top messaging to "context" and ask people to come forward without fear of investigation for any minor infractions if they have knowledge of what happened on Nov 12-13 - I'm paraphrasing.

Dec. 27 - LE in PA collect trash from Mr and Mrs Kohberger's trash bin.
Dec. 28. -Forensic DNA analysis shows that Mr K is BK's father and the Judge back in Moscow approves the PCA either that day or the very next day.
Dec. 29 - late evening; PA LE serves a no knock warrant on the Kohberger home, with a search warrant for the Elantra and for the family home. <modsnip: not the information stated in the quoted post>

<modsnip: snarky and rude>

 

[10ofRods]

I wonder how they knew so quickly that one hair was an "animal hair." I also looked up "hair" and "hair strand" definitions but did not find any meaningful distinction, such as whether the folicle was attached or not, etc.

It something we train in, in forensic anthropology. Many details about a hair help show species of mammal. They of course looked at it under a microscope before they wrote down what it was.

Comparison of human and animal hair – A microscopical analysis Safiya S N, Veeraraghavan VP, Arthanari A, Gayathri R, Selvaraj J, Kavitha S, Dinesh Y - J Adv Pharm Technol Res

J Adv Pharm Technol Res, Official publication of Society of Pharmaceutical Education & Research, Gwalior (M.P.),India

www.japtr.org

(just one of a bunch of articles on the topic).

If forced to guess the difference between "hair" and "hair strand," I'd say that hair (to me) means just 1 hair and strand can mean several hairs clustered together - as in "She pushed a strand of hair off her face." It's the kind of thing the examiners will be asked to clarify at Prelim, I imagine (if that evidence is still relevant).

 

[Gemmie]

Delay, deny, deflect IMO

All while being Detained.

 

[gliving]

"The defense is going to have a field day with ping information as well as video surveillance because there's going to be disparities [in] time frames ... both the defense and the prosecution are going to have experts in this area," Coffindaffer said. "It's gonna come down to a battle of the experts on this point and the jury is gonna have to make a decision whether they believe the prosecution's point of view or the defense's point of view."

New detail in Bryan Kohberger case gives defense room to fuel doubt

"It's gonna come down to a battle of the experts," former FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer told Newsweek about Kohberger's trial.

www.newsweek.com

Not sure what to think of this but I find it concerning as it throws doubt toward cell tower data:

The affidavit states that on November 13, the day of the killings, Kohberger's cellphone number pinged a cell tower near his apartment at 1630 Northeast Valley Road at 2:42 a.m. At 2:44 a.m., Kohberger was seen on surveillance footage from Washington State University "traveling north on southeast Nevada Street at northeast Stadium Way."

However, Newsweek drove from Kohberger's residence to the street listed in the affidavit, and the trip took just over seven minutes. Other possible routes shown on Google Maps have estimated times of seven to eight minutes.

 

[Nila Aella]

I wonder how they knew so quickly that one hair was an "animal hair." I also looked up "hair" and "hair strand" definitions but did not find any meaningful distinction, such as whether the folicle was attached or not, etc.

I think that is why they said possible animal hair. They can distinguish by looking microscopically. Just looking at a hair, some animal hair would be easier to distinguish than others by looking at color banding and other morphological characteristics like coarseness. JMO

Deedrick - Forensic Science Communications - January 2004

www.fbi.gov

 

[r3d-ros3]

Only mentioned by an unnamed former employee, with, apparently, nothing to back up the claim.

^ [whether BK frequented Mad Greek]

Not to mention a number of other employees told a reporter they did not recognize BK before this more recent story came out

Not to say he didn't go there -- I've always considered it likely that he was a patron -- but I, too, want to know if this is certain. Because the gag order was expanded after that People story dropped (about Mad Greek and BK following the girls on Instagram), I am wondering if this is confirmed information LE was trying to keep out of public view. IMO.

 

[Cindizzi]

Not sure what to think of this but I find it concerning as it throws doubt toward cell tower data:

The affidavit states that on November 13, the day of the killings, Kohberger's cellphone number pinged a cell tower near his apartment at 1630 Northeast Valley Road at 2:42 a.m. At 2:44 a.m., Kohberger was seen on surveillance footage from Washington State University "traveling north on southeast Nevada Street at northeast Stadium Way."

However, Newsweek drove from Kohberger's residence to the street listed in the affidavit, and the trip took just over seven minutes. Other possible routes shown on Google Maps have estimated times of seven to eight minutes.

Looks like 2:53 in the Affidavit

 

[TooMuchGun]

^ [whether BK frequented Mad Greek]

Not to mention a number of other employees told a reporter they did not recognize BK before this more recent story came out

Not to say he didn't go there -- I've always considered it likely that he was a patron -- but I, too, want to know if this is certain. Because the gag order was expanded after that People story dropped (about Mad Greek and BK following the girls on Instagram), I am wondering if this is confirmed information LE was trying to keep out of public view. IMO.

Isn't the witness from Mad Greek now not able to be a state witness cuz of the interview? Didn’t something similar happen at the OJ case where someone saw OJ leaving but spoke w News first?

 

[Nila Aella]

Not sure what to think of this but I find it concerning as it throws doubt toward cell tower data:

The affidavit states that on November 13, the day of the killings, Kohberger's cellphone number pinged a cell tower near his apartment at 1630 Northeast Valley Road at 2:42 a.m. At 2:44 a.m., Kohberger was seen on surveillance footage from Washington State University "traveling north on southeast Nevada Street at northeast Stadium Way."

However, Newsweek drove from Kohberger's residence to the street listed in the affidavit, and the trip took just over seven minutes. Other possible routes shown on Google Maps have estimated times of seven to eight minutes.

The other thing I noticed in the PCA was that in addition to airplane mode and turning the phone off, one of the reasons they gave was poor cell service (page 13). It would be interesting to know, especially on his long trip in that big circle, if there is poor cell service there. Not really talking about near the house but in the other areas where his phone seemed to be turned off. JMO

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23564673/122922-affidavit-exhibit-a-statement-of-brett-payne_redacted.pdf

 

[10ofRods]

The no blood trail outside is perplexing to me. Especially with the revelation that they have a latent print. Of course, there are no evidence photos from the back left of the house, that area was hidden from cameras so we wouldn't see the evidence markers or the dog working back there, but still I would think they would find something on the exit concrete? JMO

The hair is something important that I haven't seen discussed. They searched and recovered hair from his apartment. Does that mean they found unknown hair in the bedrooms? Or are they looking for victim hair? Maybe both? I did notice they took 3 hairs, 9 strands (which I think means long hair), 1 animal hair. And no fibers recovered, but maybe they look for those on the mattress cover and in the vaccuum contents.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1615769677598445568

The latent print mentioned in the PCA was missed altogether in first few days of processing (luminol most likely). When they went back in with Amido black, they found at least one latent print (so latent that it had not been visible in the first analysis).

Let's say it was the person's left foot. Well, then about a meter (more or less) before that print should be another one that is more visible. Perhaps the very last luminol latent print was that next one. But it's the one right outside DM's door, where the shoe had already lost its ability to leave blood visible to ordinary human vision.

Surely, then, they had bloody footprints somewhere (perhaps upstairs, then diminishing on the stairs; perhaps even becoming latent on the stairs); then a left footprint coming from Xana's bedroom (likely) but rapidly diminishing because the killer did not step in a big pool of blood, barely got blood on the bottom of their shoe (but did get some).

I can't tell from the document we're discussing whether those hairs came from the vacuum canister (apparently owned by BK) or were independently found. I'd guess vacuum cleaner. It's nearly impossible to get all hair evidence out of a regular vacuum canister. I would assume that investigators brought in some things as well (their own vacuum cleaner) and perhaps that's what caught the hair?

I was thinking they'd want carpet fibers, too, but perhaps not relevant to any forensic evidence at the murder scene. It seems to me that BK was very very careful about not leaving his own material at the scene (with a couple of slip ups) and not bringing anything back/cleaning up really well afterward.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Let's think about some of the potential evidence that could be brought up in trial:

• 4 autopsies, including whatever tox screens they ran
• fingerprints and footprints from theervi scene
• blood spatter, perhaps in 3-4 locations
• any evidence as to the order of the stabbing
• cell data going back months, correlated to vehicle movement
• phone calls
• pings on the victims' routers
• vehicle tracking, going back months (any sign that these weren't the only people he stalked?)
• social media accounts to determine if BK tried to contact the women
• forensic data on whatever came out of his parents' home
• forensic data of items from his apartment and WSU office
• any DNA found at the crime scene
• any DNA or body fluids or other forensic evidence found in his car
• the re-registration of the car
• purchase records for items used in the slaughter
• Any writings he did on social media or on his computer that illuminate how the victims got on his radar, when that happened, and why murder?
• The movements of the 4 victims on the day of the murders
• BK's movements on that day
• The surviving roommates' movements
• any evidence that BK stalked them or knew who they were

Feel free to edit, correct and add. Moo...

 

[Aquarian]

I wonder how they knew so quickly that one hair was an "animal hair." I also looked up "hair" and "hair strand" definitions but did not find any meaningful distinction, such as whether the folicle was attached or not, etc.

I just looked up the difference as well and everything references microscopic differences. It must have been the style and color that intrigued them or maybe they carry some type of magnifying glass where they can get a better look? Interesting.

 

[Glimma0927]

Others may have brought this up before, but because I keep seeing OCD mentioned in these threads, it may bear repeating. Not all OCD is the same. I have OCDs that cause me to pick at my skin and pull out strands of hair. I also have a tendency to hoard things. When I clean and organize, I usually go above and beyond, but I don't do them regularly. My house is chaos 99% of the time. I would LOVE to be hyper-focused about cleanliness and fitness, but I can't pick and choose what I'm compulsively obsessed about.

We don't know what BK's flavor of OCD looks like, and we shouldn't assume that he's a neat freak or well organized.

 

[acutename]

The latent print mentioned in the PCA was missed altogether in first few days of processing (luminol most likely). When they went back in with Amido black, they found at least one latent print (so latent that it had not been visible in the first analysis).

Let's say it was the person's left foot. Well, then about a meter (more or less) before that print should be another one that is more visible. Perhaps the very last luminol latent print was that next one. But it's the one right outside DM's door, where the shoe had already lost its ability to leave blood visible to ordinary human vision.

Surely, then, they had bloody footprints somewhere (perhaps upstairs, then diminishing on the stairs; perhaps even becoming latent on the stairs); then a left footprint coming from Xana's bedroom (likely) but rapidly diminishing because the killer did not step in a big pool of blood, barely got blood on the bottom of their shoe (but did get some).

I can't tell from the document we're discussing whether those hairs came from the vacuum canister (apparently owned by BK) or were independently found. I'd guess vacuum cleaner. It's nearly impossible to get all hair evidence out of a regular vacuum canister. I would assume that investigators brought in some things as well (their own vacuum cleaner) and perhaps that's what caught the hair?

I was thinking they'd want carpet fibers, too, but perhaps not relevant to any forensic evidence at the murder scene. It seems to me that BK was very very careful about not leaving his own material at the scene (with a couple of slip ups) and not bringing anything back/cleaning up really well afterward.

I wonder if the other foot prints that people imagine to have existed were destroyed by the roommates when they woke up...makes sense that there should be a series but maybe only 1 print was undisturbed... ?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Others may have brought this up before, but because I keep seeing OCD mentioned in these threads, it may bear repeating. Not all OCD is the same. I have OCDs that cause me to pick at my skin and pull out strands of hair. I also have a tendency to hoard things. When I clean and organize, I usually go above and beyond, but I don't do them regularly. My house is chaos 99% of the time. I would LOVE to be hyper-focused about cleanliness and fitness, but I can't pick and choose what I'm compulsively obsessed about.

We don't know what BK's flavor of OCD looks like, and we shouldn't assume that he's a neat freak or well organized.

We don't even know if he's OCD. Isn't OCD a mental health disorder?

 

[smileyface516]

Others may have brought this up before, but because I keep seeing OCD mentioned in these threads, it may bear repeating. Not all OCD is the same. I have OCDs that cause me to pick at my skin and pull out strands of hair. I also have a tendency to hoard things. When I clean and organize, I usually go above and beyond, but I don't do them regularly. My house is chaos 99% of the time. I would LOVE to be hyper-focused about cleanliness and fitness, but I can't pick and choose what I'm compulsively obsessed about.

We don't know what BK's flavor of OCD looks like, and we shouldn't assume that he's a neat freak or well organized.

Has it even been confirmed he had OCD? I thought the only reference came from the aunt regarding the separate pots and pans. I took it as her casual way to describe how strict he was about his diet: “He was really OCD about everything being vegan, he even demanded separate pots and pans”

 

[Sachi]

We don't even know if he's OCD. Isn't OCD a mental health disorder?

thank you! The only statement was a comment made by the aunt to describe his behavior pertaining to ( BK) pots and pans