ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #67

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Agreed about her being tried in Arizona, but hear me out on this one point, my friend:

So, Charles rents a car and arrives to pick up JJ, puts JJ in said car, goes back into the house where he gets into altercation with Alex. Alex shoots him, he’s on the floor, Lori says she sees him as she’s bolting out the door. She tells detectives her first thought is, “I need to get to the kids,” - apparently that’s JJ, who’s in the car. Not Tylee, behind her in the house. Not 911, to save Charles, who’s dying. She runs outside to JJ, which is also the rental car.

So she runs out of the house, to where JJ is buckled in (?), Tylee goes back for the purse, and then she takes Charles’ car to get JJ to school and runs her wackadoo errand - which dont seem that important, considering Alex has been attacked (she was fearful of this, she told detectives) and her newly-estranged husband is dead on the floor.

I think Arizona might have a conspiracy case because this chain of events looks an awful lot like before Alex killed Charles, she was heading for his rental car to trap him in the house, and then keeping his rental away from the house so he couldnt escape until Alex was done with his job.

Her leaving in his rental has been a huge red flag since day one, for me. He was picking up the little boy and taking him. They’re estranged, no longer together. A fight breaks out and she takes his only way of leaving the situation?


That's and interesting thought. The narrative Lori gave doesn't explain the Charles' phone. Either it was in the car the whole time and his returning for it is suspect, or Lori's claim that it was in the car the whole time is suspect.

Lori supposedly sending Tylee in to retrieve her purse is also very against her claimed "mom mode."

There is so much that doesn't make sense, but it is more believable that Charles was ambushed on his first trip in. Maybe Lori or Tylee rushed out the back or garage with JJ during the ambush to put him in the car.

You can't drive away from a bullet, though. So maybe she picked that car because she wouldn't have to explain a change in plans to JJ (anyone with an autistic kiddo will kwim) and because it was symbolically a huge disrespect. Or maybe it was just in the easiest location in the driveway. But you could be right...it could be a bit of pre death torture to Charles, making him feel trapped. Or it could have been for many conscious or unconscious reasons.
 
As a matter of fact, no one "knows" what occurred the morning of Charles Vallow's death. He could have walked in the door, and AC could have shot him. Then, they go into "Cover Up" mode. The odd discrepancy, is why Arizona LEO did not focus on the 45 minutes from the time AC shot Charles Vallow, until he called 911. That is a huge red flag. Right there.
 
I'm not sure if Tylee witnessed Charles' murder or suspected his death was premeditated. That's why I don't find it as likely that he was gunned down immediately upon his arrival. JJ would still be in the house. Tylee perhaps didn't buy into the zombie stuff about Charles (but she knew about zombies because Lori called her that once). It would be easier for Lori and Alex to agree on a story than to include Tylee in a conspiracy. IMO Tylee was likely sent out by the time the murder happened.
 
With these crimes directly impacting people in at least 4 states (Idaho, Arizona, Utah and Louisiana), this is a strong reason for allowing cameras in the courtroom. Those directly impacted deserve seeing justice served. I really hope Judge Boyce reconsiders.
 
The argument for cameras is a good one (so many people with an interest).

The argument against cameras is just as good, however (do we risk cameras in the courtroom, adding a possible "outside pressure element" and attorneys playing to a national audience, that changes the dynamics of the trial, just in order to satisfy people's curiosity? do we risk a miscarriage of justice, or guilty running free, just to get a TV feed to the world?).

It's a shame we don't have any qualified 3rd party to weigh these competing interests, and determine which is the wisest course to take. Oh wait, we do, whew! A whole system already in place to figure these things out. Cool.
 
The argument for cameras is a good one (so many people with an interest).

The argument against cameras is just as good, however (do we risk cameras in the courtroom, adding a possible "outside pressure element" and attorneys playing to a national audience, that changes the dynamics of the trial, just in order to satisfy people's curiosity? do we risk a miscarriage of justice, or guilty running free, just to get a TV feed to the world?).

It's a shame we don't have any qualified 3rd party to weigh these competing interests, and determine which is the wisest course to take. Oh wait, we do, whew! A whole system already in place to figure these things out. Cool.

There have been thousands of higher profiles cases than this and have managed fine.

It's not to solely to "satisfy people's curiosity". Look at the path of destruction these two have caused. Look how long this trial is stated for. There are family and friends directly impacted that don't have the ability to attend a TEN week trial for a multitude of reasons. (This includes friends/family of the accused) CD & LV are also afforded a public trial under their constitutional rights. JP filed a motion to grant camera access and addressed what hardships this would cause.

In addition, you've seen an unheard amount of sealings and many other questionable decisions which has many people leery. If the state had it their way, we'd have this trial in 2068.

I still think this case will be analyzed for many many years as to what went wrong and why.
 
CD is a truly horrible piece of work. I think he probably always was, underneath. Plenty of people get sucked into cults, then sometimes they manage to get out and again become the normal pleasant people they had previously been. The cult leaders are a different thing altogether. And Lori, well she is a whole other thing again.
 

In the probable cause statement, LVD, Tylee and JJ leave house at 7:49 with Charles Vallow's car and cellphone, they left because AC was fighting with Charles Vallow. They heard a shot, and left to go to Burger King, drop JJ off at school, buy flip flops for Tylee and LVD. AC calls 911 at 8:32....43 minutes after he shot Charles Vallow.

I believe that Charles Vallow went to pick up JJ. Probably told Tylee to take him out to the car, while he talked to LVD. When the kids walked out, AC shot Charles Vallow and gave car keys and cellphone to LVD.

I am certain that Charles Vallow did not give LVD his car keys or cellphone to take JJ to school. He was dead when LVD took his car keys. Charles Vallow didn't have a good relationship with AC, he wouldn't have wanted to chill with AC while LVD took his car and cellphone.
 
There have been thousands of higher profiles cases than this and have managed fine.

It's not to solely to "satisfy people's curiosity". Look at the path of destruction these two have caused. Look how long this trial is stated for. There are family and friends directly impacted that don't have the ability to attend a TEN week trial for a multitude of reasons. (This includes friends/family of the accused) CD & LV are also afforded a public trial under their constitutional rights. JP filed a motion to grant camera access and addressed what hardships this would cause.

In addition, you've seen an unheard amount of sealings and many other questionable decisions which has many people leery. If the state had it their way, we'd have this trial in 2068.

I still think this case will be analyzed for many many years as to what went wrong and why.

You make some good points for having cameras in this courtroom!
It does offer viewing access to family and friends living elsewhere. And to idle looky-loo's too.

At the same time, respectfully a few responses...
1 I'm not sure there's anything you mentioned that's not "curiosity" based, to cater to people's wish to be on the inside and watch the drama and think we understand it.
2 Those so close to the principals that feel they MUST see it, they will find a way to be in the courtroom somehow, with rare exceptions. And there, rather than at home watching TV, is where their support is shown anyhow.
3 We can rest assured there will be a mass of reporting that will happen, with quotes and more. Lack of Court-TV does not make any of it a secret. It's just a difference in the means of transmission to the public.
4 Having no TV's in the courtroom, that doesn't make it a non-public trial either. But it does keep it from being a minute-by-minute thing where "justice" tends to be graded (and public opinion molded) by the opinions of the day-long non-stop commentators, with their own agendas.
5 Neither defendants nor prosecution are promised Court-TV in the courtroom as their constitutional right.
6 The idea that other cases have been aired on TV is no assurance that those cases - or this one - can be (or were) well-served when it comes to justice, for doing so.
7 "I'm on TV and everyone can see me do _______" DOES change the way people act and think. Always. While that doesn't mean justice will ALWAYS get destroyed by the unnatural actions, it does open the door to that possibility of "true justice lost."

[My personal viewpoint - I would love to watch this trial. BUT, I would not want to do so at the price of changing the odds of these two evil people getting the justice they deserve for their abhorrent behavior, not even by a little bit. It's just not worth it imo, to let these clever slick-tongued people have enhanced chances to deceive.]

One other thing -- you want to see the trial on TV to see ansswers to the weird acts and ideas that have occurred, but a real trial is not like Perry Mason -- the trial itself WON'T address all the weirdness, and explanations won't be given at some point. Much of it will never get a mention. Some stuff will be puzzling and stay that way. In those areas, not having it on TV won't matter anyhow. Each side cherry-picks and brings in VERY SELECTIVE items that one side or the other thinks will advance the jury to the verdict they want.
 
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The argument for cameras is a good one (so many people with an interest).

The argument against cameras is just as good, however (do we risk cameras in the courtroom, adding a possible "outside pressure element" and attorneys playing to a national audience, that changes the dynamics of the trial, just in order to satisfy people's curiosity? do we risk a miscarriage of justice, or guilty running free, just to get a TV feed to the world?).

It's a shame we don't have any qualified 3rd party to weigh these competing interests, and determine which is the wisest course to take. Oh wait, we do, whew! A whole system already in place to figure these things out. Cool.

Oh No - another trial by twitter??!! :(
 
Oh No - another trial by twitter??!! :(
We are losing our access to open courtrooms and our freedoms are dwindling. I hate what happened in OJ’s trial for so many reasons. But cameras and the judge and the attorneys didn’t let OJ walk. The jury did. He was NEVER going to prison because of his fame.
Lori and Chad are not famous. They are NOTHING.
I agree about Twitter! Oh no!
 
With these crimes directly impacting people in at least 4 states (Idaho, Arizona, Utah and Louisiana), this is a strong reason for allowing cameras in the courtroom. Those directly impacted deserve seeing justice served. I really hope Judge Boyce reconsiders.
Not that I’m anti-camera (I’m a huge 1A fan), but perhaps Hizzoner feels justice will best be served by keeping the proceedings uniquely accessible — at least in real time — to those directly involved: the defendants, their attorneys, prosecutors, jury, judge, and observers limited by available space.

Any hint that the process could be tainted by media influence could result in a mistrial or, if there are convictions, grounds for appeal. One 1A-friendly solution would be to permit some kind of tightly regulated Zoom-style observation in judicial settings that would theoretically prohibit copies from leaking.

I would hate to be forced to make these decisions. The victims’ families and others in the first circle outside the bull’s-eye in this case should be permitted some form of access if they are unable, for any reason, to attend the trial in person. The trick would be ensuring against leaks that could weaken or nullify the ban, which I believe was instated with good intentions. But we all know what paths paved with those can lead.
With these crimes directly impacting people in at least 4 states (Idaho, Arizona, Utah and Louisiana), this is a strong reason for allowing cameras in the courtroom. Those directly impacted deserve seeing justice served. I really hope Judge Boyce reconsiders.
 
Lori Vallow case: J.J. Vallow's grandmother doesn't 'recognize' so-called 'cult mom' smiling outside court


"I don't know who she is. I don't recognize her.… The face is the one I used to think I knew, but I guess I just didn't know her," Kay Woodcock, J.J.'s grandmother and Charles Vallow's sister, told Fox News Digital. "I think Charles loved her so much, and you know the saying ‘love is blind.’ Well, obviously, he was very blind to a lot of things, and so much so that it killed him."
 

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We are losing our access to open courtrooms and our freedoms are dwindling. I hate what happened in OJ’s trial for so many reasons. But cameras and the judge and the attorneys didn’t let OJ walk. The jury did. He was NEVER going to prison because of his fame.
Lori and Chad are not famous. They are NOTHING.
I agree about Twitter! Oh no!
I don’t want to veer off into OJ territory, but there is serious question in my mind whether that was a trial or an extended exercise in improvisational drama. Would it have been less so without TV? Perhaps not. But I have reasonable doubt.

And by the way, when leather gloves get wet and then dry out, they shrink. Of course that glove didn’t fit. Thanks. You've been a great audience.
 
Motion to Dismiss filed be Lori’s attorney for alleged failiure to adhere to speedy trial (that she never waived) JMOO but probably just for appeal, but the State may now scramble to try and show good cause for delaying, definitely interesting trying to balance their stro kg arguments of trying them together w/ not violating anyone’s rights. As usual, this seems circus like.

 
Motion to Dismiss filed be Lori’s attorney for alleged failiure to adhere to speedy trial (that she never waived) JMOO but probably just for appeal, but the State may now scramble to try and show good cause for delaying, definitely interesting trying to balance their stro kg arguments of trying them together w/ not violating anyone’s rights. As usual, this seems circus like.


How could the prosecution do a speedy trial when the Judge had said she was unfit for court and ordered her to be evaluated in a mental hospital? Then the judge extended her stay in the hospital for another 6 months. She may have been there a year and wasn't even released until some time in 2022.

Older article:

 
How could the prosecution do a speedy trial when the Judge had said she was unfit for court and ordered her to be evaluated in a mental hospital? Then the judge extended her stay in the hospital for another 6 months. She may have been there a year and wasn't even released until some time in 2022.

Older article:


JA stated the exact date based on the resets of her time stayed. I'll look for it but it was well before the April date

Thanks @Niner ETA- One of Lori’s lawyers, Jim Archibald, argued that since she hadn’t waived her right to a speedy trial, the court needed to set a date as soon as February, 2023. “For purposes of trial, my client has not waived her speedy trial. By our calculation, we cannot agree to anything past Feb. 21, 2023,” said Archibald. “The court needs to set our client’s jury trial for that time. If it’s after, then we believe her speedy trial rights have been violated & we will file a motion to dismiss the case.” Judge Boyce explained his ruling by stating that Lori had been in jail for almost two & a half years & as Archibald mentioned, had not waived her right to a speedy trial. “By my calculations, I have Ms. Vallow, who has been in custody two years & 10 days since her initial arrest. Mr. Daybell has waived his right to a speedy trial & has been in jail 912 & a half days by my calculation". “The length of incarceration is of great concern to me. I have a defendant who has never waived her right to a speedy trial.”
 
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