UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #10

[ColourPurple]

No, but he knows how these machines work and at what point in a babies deterioration that they are triggered.

And hes been brought in to use his expertise to explain this, so it is EXACTLY for him to say!

Hopefully we hear a bit more about it. Would have been good to hear the prosecution asking the nurse whether the monitor was on when she left the baby and whether it was on when she returned 20 minutes later. And maybe she was asked that. We've had so little reporting recently it's hard to know how much we've missed.

 

[Tortoise]

Opening Speech:

'When the other nurse turned on the light, she saw that Baby I appeared at the point of death and was not breathing.

'When she reconsidered later she thought that perhaps I was breathing once at least every 20 seconds, because if she hadn't been the apnoea alarm would have sounded'.

Turning to the jury, Mr Johnson said: 'You might want to consider how it was that Lucy Letby could see that I was pale from the door of a room in which there was minimal lighting.

'And you may want to consider the possibility that someone had silenced the alarm or turned it off'.

Dr Dewi Evans, the expert paediatrician later called in by Cheshire Police, said he thought the apnoea monitor must have been tampered with or switched off."

Lucy Letby 'tried to kill baby girl four times before succeeding'

 

[ColourPurple]

A bit more context for Dr Evans comments about the monitor (from the prosecution's opening speech, not today)

Medical expert Dr Dewi Evans said he believed the apnoea monitor might have been switched off on October 13 for child I, and the deliberate administering of a large bolus of air into Child I's stomach via her NG tube on October 22/23.

In police interview, Letby said she could not remember the circumstances of September 30, and had taken over the care of Child I after the child had an "episode".

She said she had no recollection of the events surroudning Child I's death, and said the child had been returned from Arrowe Park Hospital too quickly.

In June 2019, she was asked about a sympathy card she had sent to the child's parents. She said it was not normal to do so - and this was the only time she had done so.

She accepted having an image of that card on her phone.

She was asked about the October 13 incident and challenged the nurse's account, adding: "Maybe I spotted something that [the nurse] wasn't able to spot", as she was "more experienced".

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[squish]

If guilty...

Or maybe parents were perceived as quiet and peaceful, who would not make a rucus demanding investigation/autopsy, etc. or sue a hospital?
Thus making it easier to carry on without raising much attention?

As a teacher I meet all kinds of parents - and some, when they feel school is at fault would "move heaven and earth" to protect their kids - in their opinion.
JMO

I believe this is part of the reason for Facebook searches - checking afterwards how suspicious the parents were. I think (if guilty) she would have been making judgements on which parents were unlikely to cause her trouble, and this would have contributed to her victim selection.

 

[ColourPurple]

Opening Speech:

'When the other nurse turned on the light, she saw that Baby I appeared at the point of death and was not breathing.

'When she reconsidered later she thought that perhaps I was breathing once at least every 20 seconds, because if she hadn't been the apnoea alarm would have sounded'.

Turning to the jury, Mr Johnson said: 'You might want to consider how it was that Lucy Letby could see that I was pale from the door of a room in which there was minimal lighting.

'And you may want to consider the possibility that someone had silenced the alarm or turned it off'.

Dr Dewi Evans, the expert paediatrician later called in by Cheshire Police, said he thought the apnoea monitor must have been tampered with or switched off."

Lucy Letby 'tried to kill baby girl four times before succeeding'

And here's the last alleged "successful" attempt when the monitor did go off (Again this happened when a nurse temporarily left the nursery):

At 1.06am a nurse, having left the nursery temporarily, responded to Child I's alarm and saw Lucy Letby at the incubator. Child I was very distressed and wanted to intervene, but Letby assured her that they would be able to settle the baby.

"Don't worry - we will sort it out," Mr Johnson tells the jury.

Child I then collapsed.

The on-call doctor arrived and resuscitation attempts were made. Purple and white mottling were noted on Child I's skin.

All resuscitative efforts were unsuccessful and treatment was withdrawn at 2.10am, and Child I was pronounced dead at 2.30am.

Recap: Prosecution opens trial of Lucy Letby accused of Countess of Chester Hospital baby murders

THE trial of former Countess of Chester Hospital nurse Lucy Letby, who is accused of multiple baby murders, is due to finalise its jury and hear…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

My first reaction was that one of the papers deliberately altered the lighting (for sensationalism??). But actually, wasnt the nurse shown a variety of options and had to pick the one closest to how it was on the day?

Yes if it was the top picture I feel sure Mr Myers wouldn't have been raising issue with the nurse's recollection of the level of darkness, or suggesting that the nursery light might have been dimmed rather than off.

I am amazed actually that there are that many variations of light that could shine in from presumably strip lighting in the corridor, at 3.20am.

 

[squish]

Chester Standard (top)
Daily Mail (bottom)View attachment 398258

I think in either of these photos it would have been impossible to see the baby's complexion

 

[Parker Knoll]

I agree squish - even the lighter of the two photos would make it very very difficult to see the baby’s completion.
I am confused here but didn’t the designated nurse that night say she was only away a few minutes to bring the baby’s feed ? Upthread it mentioned 20 mins away from the cot side ?

 

[ColourPurple]

I agree squish - even the lighter of the two photos would make it very very difficult to see the baby’s completion.
I am confused here but didn’t the designated nurse that night say she was only away a few minutes to bring the baby’s feed ? Upthread it mentioned 20 mins away from the cot side ?

She said she left to help a colleague with a procedure in another room that would take about 15 minutes (and one article says she asked LL to "observe" the baby while she was away) Then on the way back she got breast milk, ready for baby I's feed.

 

[Sweeper2000]

It’s strange that he says tampered with or switched off when he can’t actually know that can he? How does he know it was working properly? Attached? Properly calibrated? Wasn’t it also said it could only be silenced for a limited time? presumably if it was tampered with that would be discovered at a later date.

not one of you can seem to see that dr Bohin said it was possible that an AE could be administered accidentally which I find curious, granted she also said it was unlikely but humans do make errors such as in the case of child c with a Feeding that wasn’t noted. obviously doctors make errors as well otherwise they would have accurately diagnosed AE if it was what that was at the time
without a shred of doubt. Oh yeh and then there is dr evans changing his mind down the line to a diagnosis of AE. because we might never know the cause of the collapse.

Hopefully we hear a bit more about it. Would have been good to hear the prosecution asking the nurse whether the monitor was on when she left the baby and whether it was on when she returned 20 minutes later. And maybe she was asked that. We've had so little reporting recently it's hard to know how much we've missed.

that was what I was expecting to remember but no word about it. I’m confident she would have been asked that, key information really. If I had heard that I wouldn’t be able to say anything.

 

[Tortoise]

For me the thing about the monitors is that in the cases of baby G and baby I staff were unsuspecting that monitors could have been tampered with, which would mean it just didn't cross their horizon, but when Dr Jayaram walked in on LL standing over baby K not breathing and her alarm was not sounding, it becomes a greater possibility that this had been happening before.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I’m confident if you put a piece of white paper at the back of the crib you could see it.

 

[Dotta]

She said she left to help a colleague with a procedure in another room that would take about 15 minutes (and one article says she asked LL to "observe" the baby while she was away) Then on the way back she got breast milk, ready for baby I's feed.

If guilty...

To be constantly alert not to miss any opportunity and mental energy put into such cunning is simply staggering.

Who can even understand it?

JMO

 

[ColourPurple]

If guilty...

To be constantly alert not to miss any opportunity and mental energy put into such cunning is simply staggering.

Who can even understand it?

JMO

Opportunism at it's finest... or worst considering the alleged outcome of it

allegedy imo

 

[Tortoise]

I agree squish - even the lighter of the two photos would make it very very difficult to see the baby’s completion.
I am confused here but didn’t the designated nurse that night say she was only away a few minutes to bring the baby’s feed ? Upthread it mentioned 20 mins away from the cot side ?

I was confused about that as well but I think it's bad reporting. The article said she diverted for seconds to get the milk but she had stepped away from the nursery 15 minutes earlier, so it's a really misleading piece of info.

When Ashleigh Hudson went over to Baby I she found her in 'quite poor condition' and needing urgent care.

The infant had been 'very stable' 15 minutes earlier, when Miss Hudson stepped away from Nursery 2 to help a colleague in the high-dependency Nursery 1 of the Countess of Chester Hospital.

She diverted for only 'seconds' to get some expressed breast milk she planned to give Baby I a short time later.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Is interesting though, the DN said that was something she had thought of for a long time. Wonder why.

I couldn’t figure that out, was it seconds or fifteen minutes?

I was thinking LL if she had been checking the child would know what to expect in how the baby looked. Any change in that and she would likely have had a reference point. Come to think of it, the police could have put a variety of dolls in the crib mimicking the actual sight that would have been there. That would leave little doubt.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Rigggght selective posting.

here’s the actual quote.


“Another nurse broke down in tears as she recalled Letby telling her a baby looked pale – even though she was standing six feet away and the infant's cot was in a darkened room with her top half covered by a canopy.
When Ashleigh Hudson went over to Baby I she found her in 'quite poor condition' and needing urgent care.
The infant had been 'very stable' 15 minutes earlier, when Miss Hudson stepped away from Nursery 2 to help a colleague in the high-dependency Nursery 1 of the Countess of Chester Hospital.
She diverted for only 'seconds' to get some expressed breast milk she planned to give Baby I a short time later.
Unaware that the infant was unwell, Nurse Hudson returned to the nursery but did not immediately examine her. Instead she began preparing the milk with her back to Baby I's cot.
'Lucy was in the doorway. We were talking, I don't remember the content of the conversation. (Then) she said she thought (Baby) I looked pale'.
She estimated that the neonatal nurse on trial for seven counts of murder – including that of Baby I – was standing five or six feet away.
'She was in the doorway and said something along the lines of "(Baby) I looks pale" or "Don't you think (Baby) I looks pale?"'”

Also

Baby I was making the gasping sounds 'maybe four to five times a minute'.

Lucy Letby 'was in tears as she said 'it's always me when it happens'

Lucy Letby, 33, denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 others between June 2015 and June 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

you could easily determine the colour of a baby’s skin at six feet. That also means LL was in the room. The picture shown in the other post is more than six feet.

if the allegation is that LL was supposed to have turned off the monitor and attacked the baby in the few seconds this nurse was away, it’s ridiculous. Oh yeh and then there’s also that LL wouldn’t have known how long this nurse was supposed to be away for. Also no mention of the monitor and she had been in there for a while.

four to five times a minute means the alarm wouldn’t have sounded if it’s designed to beep if no breathe for twenty seconds.

it’s no wonder LL questions her account of things, doesn’t seem to add up at all.

jmo

 

[squish]

Rigggght selective posting.

here’s the actual quote.


“Another nurse broke down in tears as she recalled Letby telling her a baby looked pale – even though she was standing six feet away and the infant's cot was in a darkened room with her top half covered by a canopy.
When Ashleigh Hudson went over to Baby I she found her in 'quite poor condition' and needing urgent care.
The infant had been 'very stable' 15 minutes earlier, when Miss Hudson stepped away from Nursery 2 to help a colleague in the high-dependency Nursery 1 of the Countess of Chester Hospital.
She diverted for only 'seconds' to get some expressed breast milk she planned to give Baby I a short time later.
Unaware that the infant was unwell, Nurse Hudson returned to the nursery but did not immediately examine her. Instead she began preparing the milk with her back to Baby I's cot.
'Lucy was in the doorway. We were talking, I don't remember the content of the conversation. (Then) she said she thought (Baby) I looked pale'.
She estimated that the neonatal nurse on trial for seven counts of murder – including that of Baby I – was standing five or six feet away.
'She was in the doorway and said something along the lines of "(Baby) I looks pale" or "Don't you think (Baby) I looks pale?"'”

Lucy Letby 'was in tears as she said 'it's always me when it happens'

Lucy Letby, 33, denies murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 others between June 2015 and June 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk

you could easily determine the colour of a baby’s skin at six feet. That also means LL was in the room. The picture shown in the other post is more than six feet.

if the allegation is that LL was supposed to have turned off the monitor and attacked the baby in the few seconds this nurse was away, it’s ridiculous. Oh yeh and then there’s also that LL wouldn’t have known how long this nurse was supposed to be away for. Also no mention of the monitor and she had been in there for a while.

You absolutely could not determine subtle variations in a baby's skin colour 6 inches away in that darkened room, let alone 5-6 foot.

It says it all that the nurse needed to turn the light on in order to see. She wouldn't have disturbed the baby like that for no reason.

 

[MachinaCollecta]

That’s not for him to say though. He wasn’t there.

Neither were you, but that’s not stopped you from trying to dismantle anything any of these professionals have said that could possibly paint LL in even a vaguely negative light.

 

[ColourPurple]

Here's the BBC article I quoted earlier that clarified that the nurse was away for about 20 minutes

The court also heard how Ms Letby had been asked to observe Child I before she collapsed in the early hours of 13 October 2015 as her designated nurse Ashleigh Hudson was required to help a colleague carry out a 15-minute procedure in a different nursery.

Ms Hudson said Child I was in a "good clinical condition" when she left the nursery and there had been discussions regarding her discharge from the hospital in the coming weeks.

She said she returned to the baby about 20 minutes later and Ms Letby "was standing in the doorway and we were talking"

She said they spoke about something she could not recall before Ms Letby "pointed out from where she was that [Child I] looked pale [and said] something along the lines of '[Child I] looks pale' or 'don't you think [Child I] looks pale?'".

The court heard the main light was switched off in the nursery and Child I was in a cot with a canopy, which obscured the light from the baby's face, and had blankets covering her bottom half.
Ms Hudson said she "couldn't see" the child.
"I could see she was in the cot but I could not see the top half of her as it was obscured by the lighting and the canopy," she said.

"After switching the light on, I immediately went to [Child I], pushed back the canopy and peeled back the blankets to have a proper look at her and assess her."
She said it was clear Child I was in a "quite critical condition".

Lucy Letby: Murder-accused nurse cried over baby collapses, court told

Lucy Letby said it felt like babies often became seriously ill on her shifts, a doctor tells a jury.

www.bbc.co.uk