UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #10

[Becci]

Hmmm
Didn't Mum of Baby "I" say that some nurses never cared about washing (never mind disinfecting) hands?
Yuck!

But you reminded me of an article I read years ago about an old hospital that had to be torn down b/c its walls were sooo infected with germs that it was a health hazard.

But it was a veeery old building.

JMO

Wow thats bad but makes sense with it been old i suppose.

 

[Dotta]

I think concentrating on photos and lighting is barking up the wrong tree.

The nurse who was actually there at the time thought it strange that LL could see the baby was pale.

She has stood on oath and said the colour of the baby could not be seen.

Why would anyone disbelieve this nurses testimony?

It's obviously damaging to LL and the defence could not defend it

It is never good to leave a child in one's care to another person.
Why couldn't LL go to help this emergency the baby's designated nurse went to?

As a teacher I MUST NOT leave the classroom and ask somebody else to look after children.
If anything happened to one of the pupils, I would be held responsible as they were in MY care.

I think discipline was lax in this ward.
MO

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think concentrating on photos and lighting is barking up the wrong tree.

The nurse who was actually there at the time thought it strange that LL could see the baby was pale.

She has stood on oath and said the colour of the baby could not be seen.

Why would anyone disbelieve this nurses testimony?

It's obviously damaging to LL and the defence could not defend it She also said nobody would be have a better chance than her Of seeing the baby, if that picture is of room 2 then she is wrong

she also said nobody would be able to see the baby. If that picture is of room 2 which we have yet to conclusively prove then I think we can all say anyone standing in the doorway would have a better line of sight. She also said LL was 6 foot away which isn’t far And doesn’t match up with the picture. We look at the evidence and think what we will, not necessarily believe in memory from many years prior. She also said herself it wouldn’t be completely accurate. Jmo.

again from the prosecution’s POV it seems they are clutching at straws due to a lack of anything particularly strong or conclusive. Presumably because they couldn’t really find anything really strong.

it’s a bit like child E. someone must have let the mom into the ward but no staff has actually testified to when the mum turned up. It also doesn’t make sense that LL would attack the baby just as she was expecting the mom to turn up. Jmo.

 

[JosieJo]

she also said nobody would be able to see the baby. If that picture is of room 2 which we have yet to conclusively prove then I think we can all say anyone standing in the doorway would have a better line of sight. She also said LL was 6 foot away which isn’t far And doesn’t match up with the picture. We look at the evidence and think what we will, not necessarily believe in memory from many years prior. She also said herself it wouldn’t be completely accurate. Jmo.

again from the prosecution’s POV it seems they are clutching at straws due to a lack of anything particularly strong or conclusive. Presumably because they couldn’t really find anything really strong.

The other nurse was nearer and couldn't see ...it would have been the nurse who brought this to the attention of the police not the other way round
There is no good reason at all to disbelieve what this nurse says

 

[Sweeper2000]

The other nurse was nearer and couldn't see ...it would have been the nurse who brought this to the attention of the police not the other way round
There is no good reason at all to disbelieve what this nurse says

She couldn’t see the child no, but if she was closer to the canopy the canopy would block line of sight.

 

[JosieJo]

It is never good to leave a child in one's care to another person.
Why couldn't LL go to help this emergency the baby's designated nurse went to?

As a teacher I MUST NOT leave the classroom and ask somebody else to look after children.
If anything happened to one of the pupils, I would be held responsible as they were in MY care.

I think discipline was lax in this ward.
MO

And if LL had gone to assist the other nurses who would have looked after her babies....that makes no sense

Nurses have to look after other nurses patients all the time ...how on earth do you think they take a break or do anything that requires 2 nurses?
Nothing to do with being lax

 

[JosieJo]

She couldn’t see the child no, but if she was closer to the canopy the canopy would block line of sight.

So why do you think that the nurse thought it was so odd that LL would see that she mentioned it to police?

Also why if there are other explanations do you think Myers hasn't put them to the nurse???

 

[JosieJo]

She couldn’t see the child no, but if she was closer to the canopy the canopy would block line of sight.

She didn't say the canopy blocked her sight

 

[Dotta]

And if LL had gone to assist the other nurses who would have looked after her babies....that makes no sense

Nurses have to look after other nurses patients all the time ...how on earth do you think they take a break or do anything that requires 2 nurses?
Nothing to do with being lax

Sorry but either one cares for a specific baby or not.
THIS baby was the nurse's resposibility, and other babies in the SAME room.
We are talking about very vulnerable patients.

How can a nurse even think about running to and fro in the ward leaving HER patients unattended???

And yes, "work culture" in this place, IMO, leaves much to be desired.

Mind you, an alleged serial killer was playing havoc undisturbed for over a year!

It speaks for itself!

JMO

 

[JosieJo]

Sorry but either one cares for a specific baby or not.
THIS baby was the nurse's resposibility, and other babies in the SAME room.
We are talking about very vulnerable patients.

How can a nurse even think about running to and fro in the ward leaving HER patients unattended???

And yes, "work culture" in this place, IMO, leaves much to be desired.

Mind you, an alleged serial killer was playing havoc undisturbed for over a year!
It speaks for itself!

JMO

How would a nurse take a break ?

 

[Dotta]

How would a nurse take a break ?

Aren't they given breaks?
All workers are entitled by LAW to breaks.

But it doesn't mean one can leave "work place" whenever one wants.

JMO

 

[JosieJo]

Aren't they given breaks?
All workers are entitled by LAW to breaks.

But it doesn't mean one can leave "work place" whenever one wants.

JMO

Who would look after their babies while on their break?

 

[Dotta]

Who would look after their babies while on their break?

A leader nurse appoints shifts and breaks.

 

[Sundial]

"8.10am – LL made a nursing note: ' noted to be pale in cot by myself at 03:20hrs … apnoea alarm in situ and had not sounded. On examination centrally white, minimal shallow breaths followed by gasping observed.'"


This is a very interesting nursing note.

She's recorded the events as the designated nurse says they happened.

"and had not sounded", shows (without a shadow of a doubt IMO) that she knew that the apnoea/not breathing event happened before she noted the pallor from the doorway.

There's no reason to make a record of an alarm not sounding before the event that would make it sound. She wouldn't know that unless she already knew baby I stopped breathing before she noted she was pale.

This is the second time in 3 weeks (baby G, 21 Sep) that she discovered babies requiring resuscitation without alarms sounding, while not reporting it to managers, and not mentioning it to her friend when she texted her about baby G.

All MOO

Effectively, when you weigh this up thus far: It implies that not only the machines used to detect AE aren’t doing their job, but also the monitors aren’t either by the sound of it IMO. They just allegedly malfunction (if guilty) only on LL shifts.

Moo

 

[JosieJo]

Sorry but either one cares for a specific baby or not.
THIS baby was the nurse's resposibility, and other babies in the SAME room.
We are talking about very vulnerable patients.

How can a nurse even think about running to and fro in the ward leaving HER patients unattended???

And yes, "work culture" in this place, IMO, leaves much to be desired.

Mind you, an alleged serial killer was playing havoc undisturbed for over a year!

It speaks for itself!

JMO

"How can a nurse even think about running to and fro in the ward leaving HER patients unattended???"

She went and assisted another nurse ...how is that comparable to you description?

 

[Sweeper2000]

So why do you think that the nurse thought it was so odd that LL would see that she mentioned it to police?

Also why if there are other explanations do you think Myers hasn't put them to the nurse???

She didn't say the canopy blocked her sight

As I said earlier it could simply be that her eyes had not adjusted to the low light levels as she was staring into the lit corridor Whereas anyone staring into the room would.

it’s not even about what she said, her account may be true to her recall but if the facts suggest otherwise as we can see assuming that is room 2 then we respectfully disagree with her opinion on what others can and can’t see.

 

[JosieJo]

A leader nurse appoints shifts and breaks.

So how is another nurse looking after a baby of a nurse on a break any different to another nurse looking after your baby when you have to assist a colleague in a procedure that needs 2 nurses?

 

[JosieJo]

As I said earlier it could simply be that her eyes had not adjusted to the low light levels as she was staring into the lit corridor Whereas anyone staring into the room would.

it’s not even about what she said, her account may be true to her recall but if the facts suggest otherwise as we can see assuming that is room 2 then we respectfully disagree with her opinion on what others can and can’t see.

There are no facts as far as we know been presented by the defence to throw any doubt on her recollection

 

[Dotta]

"How can a nurse even think about running to and fro in the ward leaving HER patients unattended???"

She went and assisted another nurse ...how is that comparable to you description?

I guess we differ in definition of "responsibility in work place".

If I ever left my pupils and accident happend - I would have talks with a prosecutor, all possible educational bodies and guilt burdening me to the end of my life.

JMO

 

[Sundial]

A leader nurse appoints shifts and breaks.

It really is not as black and white as being “appointed a break” in nursing. Regardless of the law, breaks for nurses is not that simple. I know you mentioned you are a teacher, on your lunch break there are (at least in the uk), designated lunchtime supervisors and/or teaching assistants to supervise. Nurses have to work as a team covering and supporting each other/supervising other patients and some will frequently skip breaks, not get one completely or take it much later than planned.